Air to Springs

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nigelbb said:
There are no rubber components in the fuel line that will be adversely affected by ethanol. When I am in France I run my P38 on E85 (85% bioethanol) which is half the price of E10. Like LPG the calorific density of ethanol is less than petrol so fuel consumption is reduced. I get 18mpg with E10 & 14mpg with E85.
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No rubber, but what about plastic like the in tank pump pick up? I guess it should be OK as Isopropyl alcohol was the preferred cleaning agent and deemed safe on most plastics.?
 
Good to know and yours is the second comment confirming I can run my P38 on E10 fuel, which will reduce my fuel bill. I also liked your calorific comment. A simple ratiometric calculation shows your bioethanol energy density is 77.8% (14/18) when compared to E10, which some estimate to be down by 5% compared to E5. If we assumed for reference, old unleaded =1 in terms of calorific energy density, E5 = 95%, E10 = 95% x 95% = 90.25% and the energy density of bioethanol = 77.8% x 90.25% = 70.2% when compared to old unleaded. Interestingly, (14mpg/18mpg) = 77.8% x E10 (90.25%) = 70.2% so, although I have not confirmed these figures, they seem reasonable. The balancing act is always cost verses return and your figures show bioethanol is a bargain. A UK gallon is 4.5461 litres to 4 decimal places and should not be confused with a US gallon, which is 3.7854 litres to 4dp. 18mpg on E10 = 3.9594 miles/litre and assuming E10 is £1.50/Litre = £0.3877/mile. (£1.5/3.9594). Repeating for bioethanol you get 14mpg = 3.0795 miles/litre and assuming bioethanol is £0.75/Litre (half price) = £0.2435/mile. Compared to E10, bioethanol is less expensive by 37.2% [100*(£0.3877 - £0.2435)/£0.3877)] or roughly 2/3rds the price of E10. I'd pay £1/litre instead of £1.50/litre every day of the week and call that a bargain. Where can I get some for £0.75/Litre ??.
 
Springelec said:
Whilst there's no such thing as zero risk. you can mitigate obvious risk. Another EAS failure that would leave me and any passengers stranded in a cold dark night, miles from home can be avoided by removing the source of risk. Of course, I'm not removing risk, just moving it along a scale of risk - hopefully in the direction of less risk. Even a spring and damper combo can fail but, based upon my experience with springs and dampers and more recently EAS, springs and dampers return several orders of magnitude less risk than EAS. Current score: S & D = 0 in 35 yrs. EAS 5 times in three years. QED. :)
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Although I have never ventured into EAS ownership my experience of metal suspension mirrors your own; in 61 years of motoring I've suffered just one leaf spring failure & two of coils .. neither vehicle was a LR product.
 
I think this is a 'horse for courses' discussion. EAS may have its advantages but, I don't need them and I definitely do not need its failure rate. The nearest I get to 'off road' is when I visit a car exhibition or a National Trust property. My car is never used for towing or carrying bags of cement and spends 99.9% of its time on tarmac. So, I believe I'm better off with old fashioned, tried and trusted springs that, in the long run, will save me ££££ in garage bills. People advise me to use this and that diagnostic but, I want to use and run a car, not a glorified computer with software written by Bill Gates. The P38 is fundamentally a good car but, because of a need for market differentiation, especially for the American market, it was filled with toys that ultimately led to it acquiring a reputation for unreliability. The core vehicle is very good so, my reaction is to remove all the unnecessary software dependent bo**ux and return it to a comfortable, powerful and reliable Land (Range) Rover. Wot's there not to like. :) Cheers.
 
Springelec said:
I think this is a 'horse for courses' discussion. EAS may have its advantages but, I don't need them and I definitely do not need its failure rate. The nearest I get to 'off road' is when I visit a car exhibition or a National Trust property. My car is never used for towing or carrying bags of cement and spends 99.9% of its time on tarmac. So, I believe I'm better off with old fashioned, tried and trusted springs that, in the long run, will save me ££££ in garage bills. People advise me to use this and that diagnostic but, I want to use and run a car, not a glorified computer with software written by Bill Gates. The P38 is fundamentally a good car but, because of a need for market differentiation, especially for the American market, it was filled with toys that ultimately led to it acquiring a reputation for unreliability. The core vehicle is very good so, my reaction is to remove all the unnecessary software dependent bo**ux and return it to a comfortable, powerful and reliable Land (Range) Rover. Wot's there not to like. :) Cheers.
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Wait until your see it off roading, they are quite capable 😜👍
Not rock crawling or the like👌
 
Springelec said:
I think this is a 'horse for courses' discussion. EAS may have its advantages but, I don't need them and I definitely do not need its failure rate. The nearest I get to 'off road' is when I visit a car exhibition or a National Trust property. My car is never used for towing or carrying bags of cement and spends 99.9% of its time on tarmac. So, I believe I'm better off with old fashioned, tried and trusted springs that, in the long run, will save me ££££ in garage bills. People advise me to use this and that diagnostic but, I want to use and run a car, not a glorified computer with software written by Bill Gates. The P38 is fundamentally a good car but, because of a need for market differentiation, especially for the American market, it was filled with toys that ultimately led to it acquiring a reputation for unreliability. The core vehicle is very good so, my reaction is to remove all the unnecessary software dependent bo**ux and return it to a comfortable, powerful and reliable Land (Range) Rover. Wot's there not to like. :) Cheers.
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I think you may be surprised. Running one of these without diagnostics available is asking for trouble IMO there are so many potential electronic failures on vehicle that is over 20 years old.. Gates & MIcroshyte have nothing to do with the Nanocom
 
Fair enough but, I view my P38 as a layered onion. In the beginning, the LR engineers would have started with the basic car and then embellished it by adding layers of toys from sales' advice, who obtained their info from various focus groups within 1990s LR and from around the world. Great for PR but, not necessarily good for the customer or the vehicle. I've already removed the Sat Nav which drained the battery and the radio, which suddenly wouldn't turn off at max volume and now my focus is the suspension. Assuming this conversion does not cause the car's embedded SW to get its knickers in a twist, (fingers crossed) I'm hopeful most of this car's future problems will be eliminated. But I accept it's just a hope. I noticed yesterday that last Saturday's suspension drama also cracked the exhaust pipe and it now fumes from underneath the car as well as from the rear pipes and it has been suggested that my latest suspension failure may have been due to a hot exhaust melting one of the rear air pipes. Apparently this can happen ??. Cheers
 
Springelec said:
Fair enough but, I view my P38 as a layered onion. In the beginning, the LR engineers would have started with the basic car and then embellished it by adding layers of toys from sales' advice, who obtained their info from various focus groups within 1990s LR and from around the world. Great for PR but, not necessarily good for the customer or the vehicle. I've already removed the Sat Nav which drained the battery and the radio, which suddenly wouldn't turn off at max volume and now my focus is the suspension. Assuming this conversion does not cause the car's embedded SW to get its knickers in a twist, (fingers crossed) I'm hopeful most of this car's future problems will be eliminated. But I accept it's just a hope. I noticed yesterday that last Saturday's suspension drama also cracked the exhaust pipe and it now fumes from underneath the car as well as from the rear pipes and it has been suggested that my latest suspension failure may have been due to a hot exhaust melting one of the rear air pipes. Apparently this can happen ??. Cheers
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If the exhaust has failed it is highly likely that the EAS pipes have been melted so the poor old EAS is likely getting the blame when the cause had nothing to do with the EAS. The EAS would not have caused the exhaust to fail.
As far as I'm aware, the electronics were part of the design from the outset. No toys really apart from SatNav on later cars, just what was regarded as basic for the era, electric windows & mirrors, electrically adjustable heated seats, aircon and heated windscreen. None of the stuff found on the newer models. the SRS & ABS were I think obligatory and they give trouble. If the radio is original, it can be fixed.
 
Springelec said:
I noticed yesterday that last Saturday's suspension drama also cracked the exhaust pipe and it now fumes from underneath the car as well as from the rear pipes and it has been suggested that my latest suspension failure may have been due to a hot exhaust melting one of the rear air pipes. Apparently this can happen ??. Cheers
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It can, one of our bods just had this🤔
 
Springelec said:
I noticed yesterday that last Saturday's suspension drama also cracked the exhaust pipe and it now fumes from underneath the car as well as from the rear pipes and it has been suggested that my latest suspension failure may have been due to a hot exhaust melting one of the rear air pipes. Apparently this can happen ??. Cheers
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Ha Ha. Never heard of that. Would need to be a sudden failure that dropped the car onto rocks or similar. Even on the bump stops, the exhaust is nowhere near the ground. If the exhaust was badly fitted maybe the axles came into contact ? But that is definitely not the fault or the EAS . . . . it's the exhaust fitter.

@Springelec you might be better off on rr.net where there's loads of US types that like to swap for springs !! We are a **** taking lot here, so you will get criticised.
 
The suspension failed and afterwards I noticed the exhaust had fractured. My exhaust was not blowing before this suspension failure. That happened afterwards. So, I may have suffered air pipe failure due to the pipe's proximity to the exhaust. Then the suspension failed, which caused the exhaust to crack. The exhaust is an ordinary cheap steel one and over three years old because I had it replaced when I bought the car but, it's only covered 10K miles. This would not have happened with springs.
As for 'electric windows & mirrors, electrically adjustable heated seats, aircon and heated windscreen', all agreed but, they can be easy to fix. When the driver's seat in my wife's XK8 suddenly failed, I pulled the seat controller and traced the fault to a thin pcb track that had gone green with fur on it because of damp. It was an easy fix with a short length of tin copper wire and a soldering iron. Switches, crimps, wires etc are all with our reach. Software and Canbus analysers are beyond my technical skill and even if it were, I have no interest chasing digital messages on a Canbus because a nice car does not have to be this difficult, e.g. 1970s Rolls Royce. No air bag, no ABS, no Sat Nav and yet people still managed to drive around in relative safety without killing anyone or themselves every time they went out. Granted its brakes and suspension float on mineral oil but, in my experience, the Rolls Citroen based suspension system does seem to be more reliable than EAS.
 
Springelec said:
The suspension failed and afterwards I noticed the exhaust had fractured. My exhaust was not blowing before this suspension failure. That happened afterwards. So, I may have suffered air pipe failure due to the pipe's proximity to the exhaust. Then the suspension failed, which caused the exhaust to crack. The exhaust is an ordinary cheap steel one and over three years old because I had it replaced when I bought the car but, it's only covered 10K miles. This would not have happened with springs.
As for 'electric windows & mirrors, electrically adjustable heated seats, aircon and heated windscreen', all agreed but, they can be easy to fix. When the driver's seat in my wife's XK8 suddenly failed, I pulled the seat controller and traced the fault to a thin pcb track that had gone green with fur on it because of damp. It was an easy fix with a short length of tin copper wire and a soldering iron. Switches, crimps, wires etc are all with our reach. Software and Canbus analysers are beyond my technical skill and even if it were, I have no interest chasing digital messages on a Canbus because a nice car does not have to be this difficult, e.g. 1970s Rolls Royce. No air bag, no ABS, no Sat Nav and yet people still managed to drive around in relative safety without killing anyone or themselves every time they went out. Granted its brakes and suspension float on mineral oil but, in my experience, the Rolls Citroen based suspension system does seem to be more reliable than EAS.
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There is no way the EAS could cause the exhaust to crack, without doubt the exhaust failure caused the EAS failure but you will believe what you want to believe. The car can be driven on the bump stops with no damage to anything. If keeping what's left of the car, fit a decent Double S stainless exhaust.
CAN BUS Cretinous Automotive Network Breaks Unexpectedly Sometimes.
Plenty of software in the P38 BECM and other modules but not on a daisy chain BUS system that takes out essential functions when a non essential function fails.
I had the suspension fail on my XM, I have also had coils fail, not often admitedly.
 
pwood999. I wanted to avoid washing all my dirty linen in public and perhaps I've just been unlucky but, when grovelling under my car before Christmas I noticed the rear diff bell housing was oily. Now, I know you're all going to find this unbelievable but, at some point in the past during suspension failure 1 to 4, the exhaust U bolt managed to punch a rough 8mm hole in the top of the bell housing causing it to leak fluid. And before you claim that's impossible because the diff is made from cast steel, the bell housing is made from pressed steel and is therefore thinner and weaker than the diff body. For a quick fix, I had it welded in January and chalked this experience to bad luck. But, when do you decide it's more than just bad luck and more likely bad design ??. Similarly the NS rear bumper dropped one day in Nov '24 and that's when I discovered the pressed steel panels holding it to the car had almost completely rotted, leaving nothing for the plastic to hold on to. After 40Hrs labour, a 2nd hand rear bumper with decent pressed steel arms, a gallon phosphoric acid and 2L of red lead paint, I got the rear bumper back on the car. But, what a painful experience. I still blame the unreliable and flawed EAS for most of my car's problems but, I am going to persevere with springs and see if things calm down. Rest assured I shall report without fear or favour. :)
 
Springelec said:
pwood999. I wanted to avoid washing all my dirty linen in public and perhaps I've just been unlucky but, when grovelling under my car before Christmas I noticed the rear diff bell housing was oily. Now, I know you're all going to find this unbelievable but, at some point in the past during suspension failure 1 to 4, the exhaust U bolt managed to punch a rough 8mm hole in the top of the bell housing causing it to leak fluid. And before you claim that's impossible because the diff is made from cast steel, the bell housing is made from pressed steel and is therefore thinner and weaker than the diff body. For a quick fix, I had it welded in January and chalked this experience to bad luck. But, when do you decide it's more than just bad luck and more likely bad design ??. Similarly the NS rear bumper dropped one day in Nov '24 and that's when I discovered the pressed steel panels holding it to the car had almost completely rotted, leaving nothing for the plastic to hold on to. After 40Hrs labour, a 2nd hand rear bumper with decent pressed steel arms, a gallon phosphoric acid and 2L of red lead paint, I got the rear bumper back on the car. But, what a painful experience. I still blame the unreliable and flawed EAS for most of my car's problems but, I am going to persevere with springs and see if things calm down. Rest assured I shall report without fear or favour. :)
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Badly fitted exhaust. No bell housings on Diffs but there is a cover plate.
 
You may have bought a real pauper car😩
My son's was a neglected car when we bought it, a complete replacement front axle from the outset and a further 2000 euros in parts followed shortly...
She's now doing her bit and has done reasonably well for the last 3-4 yr. ☺️
 
A rose is still a rose by any other name. Exhausts are standard kit and it wasn't badly fitted. I like to believe I can spot potential faults but, even I would have missed that one. The only problem is they left the U bolt pointing sharp end down. So to prevent it from happening again, I rotated it away from the 'cover plate' before it was welded. :)
 
Springelec said:
A rose is still a rose by any other name. Exhausts are standard kit and it wasn't badly fitted. I like to believe I can spot potential faults but, even I would have missed that one. The only problem is they left the U bolt pointing sharp end down. So to prevent it from happening again, I rotated it away from the 'cover plate' before it was welded. :)
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Ergo, a badly fitted exhaust. In my early days of P38 ownership a long time ago, I suffered an EAS fault with a carvan on the hook whilst touring Yorkshire. No place to stop safely in heavy traffic, I did about 50 miles like that on the bump stops to the camp site I was booked in. Uncomfortable but no damage to anything. Cleared the fault indicated as NS front height sensor and it did not fault again and we made it home to France. Investigation showed it was indeed the sensor, erratic readings on an analogue meter. It was full of water due to an O ring failure. No recurrence since it was replaced.
You are obviously dead set on blaming the EAS for any problem and also rely on garages to work on your car which in my experience with other cars when I had a fleet is not always very successful. Most on LZ DIY.
 
@Springelec have you notified your insurance company that you are changing the suspension system to non manufactures spec. Just asking as some have found who have changed to coils have received higher premiums or had their insurance cancelled. Lots oh them don't like modifications which this is classed as. Just something to look into
 
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