More Amigo Fun

Charlie Chester · Oct 4, 2024

Greetings from a Pom in New Zealand

I have browsed forums here for a lot of hours and what great knowledge there is!

Thanks to you all.

I have our 4 mates glowing on the dash of 03 MY Discovery. On interrogating SLABS ECU with Hawkeye, it informed me that RHF wheel sensor intermittent.

There is a long convoluted story of frustration and spanner throwing, but to cut a long and sad story short…

I replaced RHF hub/sensor.

Lights returned following short drive - but ECU now shows NO FAULTS.

Lights reset on key.

All wheel sensor showing a nice steady 2.2v

My SLABs ECU is a standard SRD 000150

Am I correct in saying the 04 MY SRD 500070 is a more stable unit and a good first point to change with such spurious faults?

Landrover Tech bulletin 70-01-05NAS certainly states:

11. If fault codes remain stored in the SLABS ECU as identified in this bulletin or no faults were found while carrying out the diagnostic procedure on the wheel speed sensor, refer to GTR section 70.65.08 and replace the installed SLABS ECU with a new SLABS ECU (SRD500070).

I have also been told that battery condition can affect this. Little mention of this in forums though. Thoughts?

To give some credence to this, just today the M and S transmission lights started flashing. There does appear to be common wisdom that low battery can indeed affect this particular issue - so I’m now wondering if they’re connected?

Any input greatly appreciated before I resort to an instant fix involving a can of petrol and a zippo.

Cheers

sierrafery · Oct 4, 2024

Hi, first of all check the battery and charging to be ok, eventually give it a full charge then see if the amigos and M+S lights are still coming on

then

Charlie Chester said:
Am I correct in saying the 04 MY SRD 500070 is a more stable unit and a good first point to change with such spurious faults?

Yes that's correct

Charlie Chester said:
just today the M and S transmission lights started flashing. There does appear to be common wisdom that low battery can indeed affect this particular issue - so I’m now wondering if they’re connected?

check the fault code stored in the TCU, it might be coincidental if the battery is strong enough

Charlie Chester · Oct 4, 2024

sierrafery said:
Hi, first of all check the battery and charging to be ok, eventually give it a full charge then see if the amigos and M+S lights are still coming on

then

Yes that's correct

check the fault code stored in the TCU, it might be coincidental if the battery is strong enough

Charlie Chester · Oct 4, 2024

Thanks so much Sierrafery.

Battery is old and as vehicle not primary, has been left to go flat a couple of times - still cranks well though.
It was 11.9v static when checked cold this AM.
Charging at 14.2v
Been on charge all day and will leave charging overnight.
Fingers crossed in the morning.
Cheers

sierrafery · Oct 4, 2024

If it goes down to 11.9 over night that battery is almost gone, measure voltage while cranking too and if it drops below 11 then you need a new one cos in short time the engine will not start even if it cranks

Charlie Chester · Oct 4, 2024

sierrafery said:
If it goes down to 11.9 over night that battery is almost gone, measure voltage while cranking too and if it drops below 11 then you need a new one cos in short time the engine will not start even if it cranks

Morning
OK. Went to vehicle this AM.
Turned on lights and blowers for a minute or so to discharge surface charge.
With multimeter on terminals, battery at 12.8v
Started and reset ABS.
Transmission lights still on.
I remember now trans lights came on following engaging low ratio for first time in ages to drag a loaded trailer out of steep incline.
So put in low ratio and back into high and lights went out.
Drove vehicle and Hawkeye shows charging at 14.4v.
ABS working correctly when tested.
TC also working correctly.
ABS fault returns after couple of miles of gravel roads.
No faults logged and resets on the key.
On start up almost all bloomin light on dash come on including airbag level until driven a few metres and they all go off.
Trans lights have not returned but 3 Amigos keep coming on with no faults logged.

Check other systems with Hawkeye

EMS shows faults 3129 Road speed missing.

Trans shows fault 14 P0705 position switch monitoring. Fault NOT Currently Present and Continuous.

So. New Battery or 500070 SLABS ECU or petrol and Zippo??

First two options expensive and neither a guaranteed fix. Third option briefly satisfying but will probably regret!!

sierrafery · Oct 4, 2024

I'd start with new battery first and go from there

Charlie Chester · Oct 5, 2024

sierrafery said:
I'd start with new battery first and go from there

Thanks

I Just did a load test by pulling engine ecu fuse and cranking.
Initially held high 11v but quickly dropped down to 10.7v after a few seconds but held steady there until finished test around 10 sec.
As engine always starts within first second of cranking - when still 11.5+v, this is a somewhat ambiguous result:
Clearly not unserviceable but not ideal either.
I guess I’m going to have to throw a battery at it first and hope this does the trick.

sierrafery · Oct 5, 2024

Charlie Chester said:
Initially held high 11v but quickly dropped down to 10.7v after a few seconds but held steady there until finished test around 10 sec.

That's quite OK but it implies to have the battery fully charged all the time which is not the case though if in this status you still had the amigos and M+S lights i'd say there are SLABS and XYZ switch issues(this one used to suffer from te aircon drainage)

btw are the battery clamps and main earth lead well tightened?

Charlie Chester · Oct 6, 2024

sierrafery said:
That's quite OK but it implies to have the battery fully charged all the time which is not the case though if in this status you still had the amigos and M+S lights i'd say there are SLABS and XYZ switch issues(this one used to suffer from te aircon drainage)

btw are the battery clamps and main earth lead well tightened?

Thanks again Frey. Yep, all appear clean and tight.
Battery 12.5v this AM static and 11.8 via Hawkeye with ignition position 2.
Definitely a tired battery.

I did suspect the XYZ when fault occurred upon shifting back from low range.

Checked again this AM and now SLABS ECU is throwing fault 4134. It has already had the mod wiring bypass.
Also came up with LHF sensor intermittent again yesterday??
This suggests to me something generic is amiss across all inputs.
So I’m going to throw a battery at it first, no joy and it’s an SRD 500070 next.
Never a dull moment with a Landie!

sierrafery · Oct 6, 2024

Charlie Chester said:
now SLABS ECU is throwing fault 4134. It has already had the mod wiring bypass.

That 4134 means nothig to me without the description but presuming it's about SVS how did you perform the bypass mod? did you cut and prolonge out the switch pack's wires and removed the plug or spliced into the wires to the plug? also did you check the resistances first? there are wrong tutorials on the web where they splice into the wiring which in some cases is not OK as the faulty side of the inner circuit remains in parallel with the "bypass" so the output is not "clean". If it was correctly made check the earth points in front of the airbox

1. WRONG!!!

2. CORRECT

Charlie Chester · Oct 7, 2024

Thanks so much Fery
4134 was something about signal from motor? I cleared it though without taking note.
As fault only came up once I’m going to pretend I didn’t see it for now.
The mod was done by a Landrover specialist before we got it. Have a receipt for work but not sure exactly what’s been done.
$500 for a new battery today and lights came back with no fault logged within a mile. Doh!
So, an SRD 500070 shipped in from the UK it is next.
I’ll post an update when that gets here in a couple of weeks or so.

Thanks again.

Charlie Chester · Oct 7, 2024

sierrafery said:
That 4134 means nothig to me without the description but presuming it's about SVS how did you perform the bypass mod? did you cut and prolonge out the switch pack's wires and removed the plug or spliced into the wires to the plug? also did you check the resistances first? there are wrong tutorials on the web where they splice into the wiring which in some cases is not OK as the faulty side of the inner circuit remains in parallel with the "bypass" so the output is not "clean". If it was correctly made check the earth points in front of the airbox

1. WRONG!!!
View attachment 327580

2. CORRECT
View attachment 327582

OK. On speaking again to UK suppliers, after telling me they have an SRD 500070, it turns out the ECU on offer as SRD 500070 is supplied by WABCO without the Landrover part no.
My guess is that this will be the exact same unit, just without the LR part no - but guessing and assumptions are not good enough when fault finding!
The WABCO part number appears to be generic across all the various D2 SLABS units - so still not the definitive part.
If I get one and fit it and faults is cured - happy days. If however, the fault remains, I’m still not 100% sure that I have fitted an SRD 500070 - and am left not knowing where to go next.

Does anyone happen to know for sure whether the units still supplied by WABCO today are the final 2004 version. I have no reason to think otherwise - I just dread the thought of having ANOTHER ECU delivered across the world, still have the fault and be none the wiser whether it’s being caused by an over excitable ECU.

Hope this makes sense

Thanks again in advance

sierrafery · Oct 7, 2024

Charlie Chester said:
I just dread the thought of having ANOTHER ECU delivered across the world, still have the fault and be none the wiser whether it’s being caused by an over excitable ECU.

No worries for that... if the fault is still there unchanged with the new ECU means it's not that and more troubleshooting is needed ... did i understand well that you bought a bran' new ECU? ...if yes it might be tricky to make it work without a Testbook or Autologic main dealer's tool cos IIRC(not 100% sure) if it's "blank" it needs a VIN to be inserted and nanocom or similar tools can't do that

Charlie Chester · Oct 8, 2024

sierrafery said:
No worries for that... if the fault is still there unchanged with the new ECU means it's not that and more troubleshooting is needed ... did i understand well that you bought a bran' new ECU? ...if yes it might be tricky to make it work without a Testbook or Autologic main dealer's tool cos IIRC(not 100% sure) if it's "blank" it needs a VIN to be inserted and nanocom or similar tools can't do that

Yes, I’ve bought 2x used 500070 ECU’s from breakers here in NZ. When arrived one was a 00070 and the other a 000150.
Both had to be returned.
Then I bought a brand new 500070 online from UK (can’t go wrong). When it arrived it was boxed as 500070 but inside was another 000150!
Still trying to return that one.
I tried the first two from NZ just for fun. Other than programming the SLS, both worked fine.
So fingers crossed it’ll be plug-n-play other than SLS.
The novelty of opening boxes to wrong ECU’s is now wearing thin.

Charlie Chester · Oct 8, 2024

sierrafery said:
No worries for that... if the fault is still there unchanged with the new ECU means it's not that and more troubleshooting is needed ... did i understand well that you bought a bran' new ECU? ...if yes it might be tricky to make it work without a Testbook or Autologic main dealer's tool cos IIRC(not 100% sure) if it's "blank" it needs a VIN to be inserted and nanocom or similar tools can't do that

Thanks Fery

Many of the LR specialists I have contacted have stated that there are no LR numbers on the new units they now supply - only WABCO.

I can only assume that these are units manufactured after LR stopped supporting. I believe it’s a Britpart unit so has no longer got LR part no SRD 500070 on it!

If this is the case, how will I know for sure it is the final upgraded 500070 unit with the more fault tolerant programming?

All generations of SLABS ECU’s appear to have carried the same WABCO part number??
See link…

ABS ECU - WABCO Catalog

ABS ECU with a material number 4460440310 is available. Interested in another Hydraulic ECU? See more on new Inform.

www.wabco-customercentre.com

WABCO states that it replaces no’s 100460, 00070 and 000150 but not 500070 - so that suggests essentially it IS a 500070 without LR number on - but that’s purely an assumption.

See pic attached of SLABS with no LR number!

But as we know, we should avoid making assumptions when fault finding.

Without specific knowledge that these new WABCO units are essentially de-badged SRD 500070 - in fitting one, I still haven’t ruled out for certain that superseded intolerant ECU programming is the actual issue (which cannot been seen nor measured).

Does that make sense?

Thanks again.

sierrafery · Oct 8, 2024

Made some research too myself and found WABCO 446 044 031 0 stamped as SRD500070

even though in the wabco catalog link you posted they say that the wabco part number with 031 in it is for all those listed i found that SRD000070 has 446 044 030 0 which seems the one in your picture too but i can't magnify that enough

the last two digits in the top line are the year when they left the factory so untill 2001 was with 030(SRD100460 and 000070) then from 2002 started with 031 which was the SRD000150 and seems that it's the same wabco number for the 500070 too which started in 2003 so not even wabco knows what they are doing and all those ECUs are not working 100% the same that's a fact

Charlie Chester said:
I still haven’t ruled out for certain that superseded intolerant ECU programming is the actual issue (which cannot been seen nor measured).

Does that make sense?

does not make sense, it's not about "intolerant programming" cos if the ECU is faultless there is just a functionality difference regarding the behaviour with locked diff and the self test protocol but as long as they are faultless they all should work OK which means there must be a fault code stored after the 3 amigos were on... if the amigos are coming on and no code means the ECU has a fault that's why they recommended to be replaced in that NAS TSB and at that time(2005) only the 500070 was as new on the market....that's what i was trying to say in the post you quoted so i say again in other way: with a 100% faultless(in this case new) ECU it's impossible to get 3 amigos but no fault code stored unless it's a wiring issue on the warning lamp's circuit between the ECU and IP but that's not common at all

Charlie Chester · Oct 8, 2024

sierrafery said:
Made some research too myself and found WABCO 446 044 031 0 stamped as SRD500070
View attachment 327677

even though in the wabco catalog link you posted they say that the wabco part number with 031 in it is for all those listed i found that SRD000070 has 446 044 030 0 which seems the one in your picture too but i can't magnify that enough
View attachment 327675
the last two digits in the top line are the year when they left the factory so untill 2001 was with 030(SRD100460 and 000070) then from 2002 started with 031 which was the SRD000150 and seems that it's the same wabco number for the 500070 too which started in 2003 so not even wabco knows what they are doing and all those ECUs are not working 100% the same that's a fact

does not make sense, it's not about "intolerant programming" cos if the ECU is faultless there is just a functionality difference regarding the behaviour with locked diff and the self test protocol but as long as they are faultless they all should work OK which means there must be a fault code stored after the 3 amigos were on... if the amigos are coming on and no code means the ECU has a fault that's why they recommended to be replaced in that NAS TSB and at that time(2005) only the 500070 was as new on the market....that's what i was trying to say in the post you quoted so i say again in other way: with a 100% faultless(in this case new) ECU it's impossible to get 3 amigos but no fault code stored unless it's a wiring issue on the warning lamp's circuit between the ECU and IP but that's not common at all

Again, thank you Fery for all your time and effort.

So you’re saying that ANY one of these generations of ECU should would perfectly, albeit with different functionality if working correctly.

My thoughts remain: There was understandable reasons why the 2001, 02 and 03 part numbers were changed. If still confounds me however why the part number was changed between the 000150 ( already with centre diff functionality) and the 500070 if there was essentially no difference.

There must be something different for them to change the number (again) and having read elsewhere this 04 ECU was more tolerant to fluctuations in real world sensor inputs.
Of course I have no way to know whether this is true or simply internet legend - but it does give a tangible reason behind another part no change.

So your statement that the LR TB states the requirement for 500070 is only because it was the current part is surely, although a strong possibility - ultimately an assumption.

Running with that assumption, I don’t do as the TB dictates and fit a brand new 000150 (assuming any previous functioning part no will do the job), should the fault persist, a question over the ECU still remains.

What are my options then with a new ECU, dash lights on but no fault codes logged?

My original 000150 threw lights - no faults
I tried the second hand 00070 - threw lights with no faults logged.
I tried another second hand 000150. - worked fine, threw lights with no faults logged.
I haven’t tried the brand new 000150 I’m still trying to return - though I think I may now try this one too as they’re buggering me about!

The only faults actually logged have been every 10+?? Key resets when it flags the RHF wheel sensor and just once that one-off motor speed fault.

Strangely (and confounding if I want to try this new 000150) after a reset, I did a round trip of some 40 odd miles yesterday towing a heavy trailer and lights never came on???!!
No faults logged.

For the past year it hasn’t gone more than a few miles without faulting - usually just a few hundred metres!

I cannot think of a reason this should be - other than the SLS would be operating under new parameters?!

Again, thanks for all your time and effort

sierrafery · Oct 8, 2024

You do so much overthinking about ECUs that i lost all the logic... i reiterate as shortly as possible: a faultless SLABS ECU should log a fault code once it triggered the 3 amigos regardless of it's part number, the ECU's supersession in time was to improve the vehicle's behaviour especially the TC with locked diff and the accuracy of the self test protocol...period, if the same symptom happens with more ECUs the problem is probably elswhere

to try to solve your probem i need detailed information about how exactly the symptom occurs...so clarify these:
1. which particular SLABS related warning lights are coming on and the EXACT fault code?
2. are they all the time the same without exceptions?
3. after ignition do they all go out together every time or the ABS stays on alone untill you drive it?
4. at what level from 1 to 10 would you consider yourself when it comes electric troubleshooting(reading diagrams included)?

Charlie Chester · Oct 9, 2024

sierrafery said:
You do so much overthinking about ECUs that i lost all the logic... i reiterate as shortly as possible: a faultless SLABS ECU should log a fault code once it triggered the 3 amigos regardless of it's part number, the ECU's supersession in time was to improve the vehicle's behaviour especially the TC with locked diff and the accuracy of the self test protocol...period, if the same symptom happens with more ECUs the problem is probably elswhere

to try to solve your probem i need detailed information about how exactly the symptom occurs...so clarify these:
1. which particular SLABS related warning lights are coming on and the EXACT fault code?
2. are they all the time the same without exceptions?
3. after ignition do they all go out together every time or the ABS stays on alone untill you drive it?
4. at what level from 1 to 10 would you consider yourself when it comes electric troubleshooting(reading diagrams included)?

Sorry if I’m being a pain

Overthinking… maybe?

1. No fault codes at this time
2. Usually yes, the same lights (see below)
3. Usually it resets on key and ABS goes out after 10m or so with no logged fault code. Every now and again however it does not reset and I find a RHF wheel sensor intermittent fault code.
4. Pretty good. 6 or 7/10

Starting right back at the beginning:

Vehicle showed the orange ABS TC HD and the red ! Warning lights.

No reset on key.

Checked with Hawkeye and fault was RHF wheel sensor.

RHF wheel sensor V was clearly down on other 3. (Can’t remember exact numbers)

Replaced RHF hub and sensor.

Vehicle quickly goes back showing same lights but 9/10 times resets on the key.

No faults in ECU

Every now and then however, it faults and doesn’t reset and Hawkeye showed RHF wheel sensor again.

Disconnected RHF sensor to prove Hawkeye pointing to correct corner - and it is.

All sensor V’s now all very similar 2.2v+-.

Suspected plug on inner wing. Checked resistance on RHF sensor input on back of ECU. Within spec (can’t remember numbers now)

Checked ECU earth resistance. OK.

Did much trawling of forums and found much info but also much spurious conjecture.

Read about the fabled 500070 ‘holy grail’ ECu.

Researched that and found LR TB that states if ABS goes into fault with no readable faults or faults not clear able - replace ECU with 500070.

Had/having nightmare sourcing a verifiable 500070.

Tried second hand 00070 and another s/h 000150. Both faulted in the same way.

Replaced battery with brand new Yuasa 110AH 1000CCA unit.

Vehicle went into fault after less than a mile - BUT after another fault clear with Hawkeye - hasn’t re faulted in now 50 odd miles!?

I also had the anomaly S and M transmission lights - which due to it occurring after switching ranges, I’m 99% sure is XYZ issue.

The other fault code was the one time 4134 ‘motor speed input’ never seen before and that so far, never returned?

I hope this helps.

Right now I’m somewhat snookered to investigating further as the amigos haven’t returned.

All your efforts really appreciated. Thank you.

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