KV6 Freelander, no drive in any gear! 2WD conversion

Pumping the brake pedal 10 times in the first 10 seconds after the ignition is turned on to position 2 diasables the traction control until vehicle speed reaches 4mph, then TC is enabled again. This will power the yellow TC, yellow ABS and yellow HDC fail lamps on the dash until it's moving at 4mph, to help with fault finding the lamps. When it's in this "mode" the HDC switch won't light the green HDC lamp on the dash. It's as if your Freelander is in this mode, or this is the default if the ABS computer (or bits of the ABS system) fail. Does your HDC switch light the green HDC lamp on the dash when pressed?

I'm not saying for certain the above is your error, but the lamps display a similar state and it could be possible there's 1 too many faults in the ABS or the computer/pump/thing is feked and therefore this, or a linked signal is causing the issue, as the system can't cope.

Hi Hippo, Thanks for that, wow it's 10:12am here Saturday, it must be Friday night there late.. It's bright outside and planning to head over to my father's place. I rang the auto elec and booked him but he's that booked out that he's unable to attend my place till the following weekend, i.e - 28 July. I can recall from past experience that pressing the HDC switch doesn't change the static amber HDC light to green. It simply remains on amber as does the TC and the ABS light. I'm going to try pumping the brake pedal 10 times. Good night!

It's currently 01:29 by my pc ere int UK. Need to go to sleep.

I played with the 10 brake thing today to check it for you. I will have another go tomorrow and confirm if the ABS pump thing makes a noise. You sometimes hear a click in and out of this "mode" but not sure at the moment where the click comes from. Mine will drive from stationary whilst in this mode so I can't see it doing anything worse to your Freelander than the fault it's currently got.

When my hawkeye enters the ABS computer menu it puts on all 4 LED's:

yellow ABD
yellow TC
yellow HDC
green HDC

I assume your computer ABS pump thing is the MK20 version like mine on a 2001 v6?

Hi Hippo,
Here's my observations from today.
Tried to start 1st go, failed, flat battery.
Jump started from my dad's car and started up successfully, same condition as before, no drive.
Thanks for sending me your fuse box housing photo. I notice my one was missing 3x fuses in that box so I went and got 2 out of 3 and installed them but couldn't find the other one here, guess will have to order it from o/seas or find a wrecker if you think I should install it.
I made a small video, each fuse that I point to with my finger there was a missing fuse or relay, I replaced a large yellow one as well as one 40a fuse that was previously missing, though not FL8. I also note there's one screw type fuse missing, this one I couldn't locate and stores here don't sell it so i'll need to find a wrecker or just order it from there. Here's that video: Fuse Box Housing - YouTube

Here is another video of the Kv6 unable to start up due to a flat battery: Battery Flat No Start - YouTube

Finally, following a jump start, here is another video of a successful start up: Successful start - YouTube

Here's the observations. The brake light at rear works, the centre light at the spre tyre works as does the right brake light but not the left, it's possibly the bulb didn't get a chance to check that today.

The HDC switch being pressed doesn't change the amber HDC light.

Fact: I didn't bleed to brakes properly when I renewed the master fluid reservoir, I will get to this tomorrow. This wouldn't be capable of causing this condition would it?

Sorry about the video quality, quite bad, was shot on a cheap and nasty Huawei mobile..

Thanks again Hippo and everyone for all your kind advice and assistance.

Cage

I did say that the coolant temp needle also stays forever on the bottom and the fans are on full blast. I read somewhere in RAVE that when the CAN bus detects an error, it keeps the temp needle at the bottom and sends the cooling fans to full power as in my case.

Have got the battery on charge at my place as I presently write this, it'll need all night to charge. If, when I get there tomorrow, I put the battery in and still fails to start up, then I'll get a new battery. Thanks for having a go at the Hawkeye Hippo, I was actually considering ordering it .... maybe I still will, and if I do, I guess I can offer a freelance scan service to other landy owners in Sydney.. sounds good don't it? A freelance service for a Freelander hehehe

From rave:

The missing black fuse link FL6 is for Td4 diesels only. It's the glow plug timer.
The green fuse you put yer finger on is FL10 which is not used.
The yellow relay is R5 and not used.

I will have a think about this.

According to RAVE, that combination of lights means "ABS ECU not connected", or/and "ABS and EBD failure".
Reference can be made to the table which Hippo was so kind to upload to this forum, page 4 or 5 or abouts there.
Given that it could be ABS and EBD, could the lack of brake bleeding have a role to play?
Battery is already charged, i just switched it off as the charger says full. I put it on charge at 5pm and at 11pm it's fully charged, i would have thought it would have taken longer than that to charge as its only a 12v charger. I wonder if the battery may be playing some role here, tomorrow i will renew it if it doesnt start it.
Cheers,
Cage.

I don't know if a brake bleed will fix it but getting the air out with a full bleed with rule it out as a possible fault. You have to do the wheels in this order:

front left (auto gearbox side)
front right
rear left
rear right

Thanks Hippo, will try that shortly. By the way I forgot to say, on Saturday I pumped the brake pedal 10 times and still the same.

Cage.

Hi Hippo,
same thing I'm afraid. I correctly bled the brakes all 4 wheel. Though it was great to see that stale old brake coming out, now at least it's new brake fluid. Then I started it up, exactly same thing I'm afraid, no drive, 3 amigos lights all on and amber. I say the ABS ECU is suspect. Auto elec will check it next weekend. When I put the battery in the KV6 started fine so battery fully charged.

niccage said:

Hi Hippo,
same thing I'm afraid. I correctly bled the brakes all 4 wheel. Though it was great to see that stale old brake coming out, now at least it's new brake fluid. Then I started it up, exactly same thing I'm afraid, no drive, 3 amigos lights all on and amber. I say the ABS ECU is suspect. Auto elec will check it next weekend. When I put the battery in the KV6 started fine so battery fully charged.

Click to expand...

May be a silly question. Is the gearbox control cable connected and correctly adjusted?

Hi Nodge, nothings a silly question or answer in my search for a resolution. Cable all good, working fine, my father even confirmed this as he watched the gear select fork outside as I shifted the gear lever. I suspect the ABS ECU.

I have a spare TCU (gearbox ECU) if you want it, something to try maybe.
From a 2001 V6.

The smaller gearbox barrel connector carries the gear lever position signals electrically to the gearbox computer and the LED's by the lever. It also includes an inhibit signal which is short circuit (fail safe) in lever positions P and N. these are the only 2 positions which will allow the engine to start (if it's all working correctly). If the lever is in any other position the inhibit circuit is open circuit so it won't start.

Yours starts so that would suggest the inhibit signal is ok in P.

Can you put the lever in D and try to start it. It shouldn't start as the inhibit circuit should is open, but get ready in case it starts. It's not a good idea to try to start an auto whilst in drive, just in case it does start when there's something wrong, but I expect it's wired ok and won't start.

This test isn't really needed but if you can do it it proves the inhibit switch int permanently short circuit. I wouldn't have thought it would be functioning correctly. If you prefer you could disconnect the smaller of the 2 barrel connectors and measure the resistance across the inhibit switch instead - both white wires - pins 6 and 10.

I've been working on the green T4d video's today and thinking about comparisons with yours.

Hi Hippo,
I did that test today and can confirm that the KV6 will not start in D mode, thus the inhibit switch is working.
The auto electrician attended for an hour, couldn't stay longer as booked but he tested all of the engine sensors for me and stated they are all fine. He tested all of the individual ABS sensors and stated they are fine. He had a $4000 scan tool and plugged it in and the following codes came up.

Code 1: p1645 CAN ABS Message Fault
Code 2: p1646 CAN Automatic Transmission Message Fault
Code 3: p1647 CAN instrument Pack Message fault.

He said if he wants, he can test the pins for the ABS module but needs the PIN Out diagramme, I didn't have the diagremme with me at the time, but said that if he does that he'll need to come back and it'll be 3 or 4 hours... He states I'm better off getting my hands on a spare ABS ECU and trying, stated he was 80% sure that that was the cause of my issues.

So I've just now sourced a good second hand now and will order it and let you know.

Btw, he cleared all those codes but they come up again right away.

Just a quick Q... I did remove the dash on this vehicle previously as I changed the heater matrix, I'm just now thinking that I did connect everything up to the dash at the back.... I know I did.... When I wriggled the heater unit in order to allow enough room to get at the heater matrix, there may be some more earthing cables at the bottom where the heater unit motor unit sits near the ground level ducting.. Still thinking about removing the dash and checking...But all combinations of error codes point to the ABS ECU.

Btw, when the auto electrician tested the wheel speed sensors including the rear ones, he did it through the sophisticated scan tool plugged in to the diagnostics port.. he was getting the readings on it same on both wheels we tested front and then rear.. so the sensors seem fine.

Is it complicated for me to test the pins on the connectors for the ABS ECU with a simple multimeter?

Thanks for that Bukko, I was going to ask what your price was for it including postage if not the ABS ECU but there's wreckers and companies here who sell them as well. Just out of interest, what would you want for it and postage to the Land of Oz?

Cheers,
Cage.

Hi all,
I just had a few thoughts after some RAVE reading.
Interesting how the order of the faults displayed is 1) The ABS ECU followed by (2) the Auto Transmission ECU (aka EAT ECU) and (3) the Instrument Pack display.
Now RAVE diagrams advise that there's only a single network CAN databus link betweek the instrument pack display and the ABS ECU.. Thus, this is the single sole CAN Bus link to and from the instrument pack, no link for instance from the instrument pack directly to the EAT ECU or even between the instrument pack and the main ECU (near the driver's footwell).

Similarly, the ABS ECU only has a CAN bus link to/from the Auto Trans ECU (EAT ECU). So effectively, were it not for the EAT ECU, the ABS ECU would be cut off from the rest of the world so to speak.

The EAT ECU, however, is better connected with the world than the ABS, as it's connected via CAN Bus with the ABS and another with the main ECU.

If I'm correct in my thinking, the CAN BUS cabling or wiring for the link between the EAT ECU and the central ECU, I would think that that portion of cable would run inside the Freelander (not outside), inside the vehicle, behind the front console, and if I remember correctly, there's at least 1x connector that interrupts that cable run. I know as I would have disconnected it when I renewed the heater matrix several months ago.. as, in order to wriggle forward the heater unit in order to slide out the matrix, one would have had to disconnect certain wiring.

So If I interrupted the link between the central ECU and the EAT, that would explain why signals wouldn't be getting through to the main ECU from the Jatco.

The following I quote/unquote from RAVE In relation to how gear selection info is received for the instrument display...

"Target Gear (Automatic Gearbox Only): This signal is used in conjunction with the selector position signal to
display the current gear selection in the LCD. The signal is the actual gear or target gear if gearbox is changing
ratios. The signal is also used by the ECM to assist in engine load change prediction. The signal is originated
from the EAT ECU".

Would this mean that the signal travels via the CAN bus from the EAT ECU and thus goes via the bus from EAT to ABS then finally to the instrument pack?? This would possibly make sense if the ABS ECU is screwed then the gear select signal cannot be received thus can bus failure.

Or does it take a more direct route independent of the ABS ECU?

Wondering if there could be merit in that the EAT ECU failed? Or maybe a break in some wiring behind the front console area in the main CAN Bus link? Or perhaps that connector in same area. I wonder if there would be any earth link in same area?

Also wondering, assuming the ABS ECU is screwed, shouldn't the CAN BUS transmissions simply continue along the cable run past the failed ABS ECU and eventually reach the instrument pack display, or, does the continuation of the CAN Bus transmission rely on the ABS ECU to be on line as it has to pass through it?

All of the paragraphs in inverted commas are quotes from RAVE that I found of interest.

"If there is a CAN error message from the ECM or the EAT ECU, or if there is a brake pedal switch fault, the ABS ECU
disables the ETC and HDC functions and illuminates the related warning lamps."

"Gearbox operation is controlled by the EAT ECU and the Engine Control Module (ECM) which communicate via a
Controller Area Network (CAN) Bus. The EAT ECU receives information from the ECM and gearbox sensors to
calculate the appropriate gear ratio for the conditions and controls solenoid valves to operate the gearbox as required."

"If a failure of the vehicle speed sensor occurs and the ABS ECU speed signal is functional, the EAT ECU will control
gear shifting using the ABS ECU signal."

"The EAT ECU transmits the selector lever position through the CAN bus to the ECM. The ECM processes this
information and passes it to the instrument pack in the form of CAN messages to display the gearbox status."

"In the event of a CAN bus failure any of the following symptoms may be observed:
l Transmission defaults to 4th gear
l Torque converter lock-up control is disabled
l Transmission of torque reduction message to the ECM is inhibited."

I like the last one "torque reduction request being inhibited"... Torque reduction I understand is when torque is reduced to allow the Jatco to change gears (just like I do manually in my manual K 1.8), and as such, since torque reduction isn't allowed, the Jatco is unable to forever get out of the P gear, and that may explain my no drive position.... ?

I think you have a CAN bus fault. Possibly due to the wiring being disturbed when the heater was changed. I would have thought that the transmission would have defaulted to 4th though.
I wouldn't think that the Torque Reduction Strategy was the cause. This is only in operation for a few tenths of a second, while the transmission shifts the gear. The engine fueling and ignition are altered to achieve this torque reduction. I can hear it working on my V6. The engine goes quiet as torque reduction is applied, returning to normal noise levels in approximately 1/2 a second.