KV6 Freelander, no drive in any gear! 2WD conversion

Hi Nodge, RAVE says also that emissions are worse and more fuel is used if there's a possible CAN bus failure given that it;'s programming to help with emissions and fuel efficiency has failed... in my case, even though it's not smoky, it does smell a little more than usual, and, it seems to be using more fuel - don't ask me how I know, it's gut feel. Yours is quiet as torque reduction is applied - mine isn't. Normal engine idle noise.
I will remove the front console tomorrow and possibly the who fascia and instrument to check the wiring. My question is, if the entire Auto gearbox ECU failed, would I get same circumstances or would I at least still have some drive or would happen what's presently happening? On the other hand, can the ABS ECU failing cause all of this?

niccage said:

Hi Nodge, RAVE says also that emissions are worse and more fuel is used if there's a possible CAN bus failure given that it;'s programming to help with emissions and fuel efficiency has failed... in my case, even though it's not smoky, it does smell a little more than usual, and, it seems to be using more fuel - don't ask me how I know, it's gut feel. Yours is quiet as torque reduction is applied - mine isn't. Normal engine idle noise.
I will remove the front console tomorrow and possibly the who fascia and instrument to check the wiring. My question is, if the entire Auto gearbox ECU failed, would I get same circumstances or would I at least still have some drive or would happen what's presently happening? On the other hand, can the ABS ECU failing cause all of this?

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The engine ECU will only apply torque reduction when the box changes ratios. When idling with the vehicle stationary, no torque reduction would be necessary or applied. My engine definitely changes it's sound on the gear change. Induction noise is much reduced, even with the throttle wide open. This engine note change lasts for half a second. After the box has changed, the engine note fades back to normal and full power is restored.
Emissions will be affected with a fault in the box communication as the optimum change points can't be calculated and no other reason. The engine will run as it should regardless of CAN failure. The engine ECU ensuring optimum engine emissions and performance.

More news. Today, I was inspecting the main wiring loom for the CAN bus and it all seems in fine condition and no breaks. Rather than removing the whole fascia and dash, I instead removed the passenger side air bag and the instrument panel and I verified that everything was connected as is. While at it, I tested the 26 pin connector that carried the gearbox select signal to the instrument display and I can confirm that I received no resistance readings on the 4 pins for the CAN BUS, thus, 2 for can bus minus, 2 for positive can bus. Other pins returned with a response, and having connected the battery, I received a positive voltage response from the pin for "voltage from main battery". I inspected the main wiring loom that carries the CAN Bus as it runs behind the fascia, with the instrument panel removed, I could see the run and wriggling my skinny arms and hands in the area underneath the steering wheel, I could further feel that it was in good condition. The views available from removal of the passenger airbag allowed further inspection of the cable run, and all looks good.
Wanting to try an experiment, I decided to completely remove the main connector to the EAT ECU (auto gearbox ECU), then went and tried to start up the KV6 - won't start.
Then I connected the EAT ECU and disconnected the large main connector for the ABS ECU, and guess what? Starts up and the KV6 behaves exactly as it's always been behaving.. 3 amigos on dash display, no drive, no gearbox select position on display.. absolutely makes no difference at all when I plug it out and start up the KV6, I would say this to be the strongest evidence that the ABS ECU is at fault here.
The experiments didn't end there!
I removed fuse 7 in the fuse box underneath the steering wheel.
I then started up the Freelander and voilla!!!
Whilst all the warning dash lights as before came up, guess what?? The instrument panel was now displaying the correct gear selected and I ran through the gears with the selector and the dash panel LCD displayed each single one as I selected it.. Furthermore, the cooling fans were not on and the temperature needle was working. But still nil drive as before.
My next task is the renew the ABS ECU, have ordered and shall arrive here within about 7-10 days, possible next week, will let everyone know how it goes.

Am I reading this right. Did you not have any engine function displayed on the dash? Does the rev counter and temperature display correctly? In addition to the gearbox state All this is fed to the dash ECU via the CAN bus. So no display, no CAN data!!

Hi Nodge, correcto. The REVS counter was also working when I removed fuse link 7.

niccage said:

Hi Nodge, correcto. The REVS counter was also working when I removed fuse link 7.

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Did you mention this vital but of information before?
If you did, I missed it. I would have pointed you towards the CAN bus weeks ago!!
It sounds feasible the ABS ECU is pulling the CAN bus data down.

I did originally but a few months ago, I think back at the start of this year, January, February. About mid March to May, I put the KV6 on hole as it's 1.8 K series brother started weeping coolant from it's head gasket and I fixed it but fixed it correctly this time as I renewed the head gasket and did the oil rail and used Hylomar spray sealant on MLS. Even though this has put the KV6 off line for me, I'm glad this has all happened. Life is a journey and everything is a learning curve. Furthermore, I'm hoping this extensive forum and all it's kind participants will be able to assist others, as my Youtube videos.

Thanks for taking the time to write down in details. It will help others for sure. Are you buying a new abs ecu or an old one ? I wonder if other cars use the same abs ecu. If you want me to try to find other cars with the same abs ECU, can you write which one you have ?

Reading the updates...

How did the auto electrician read the abs sensors? I assume he plugged in his device and you lifted and turned wheels and the road speed for that wheel increased on the device? If he did this via the odbii socket then this would prove the abs computer is functioning to a certain extent. ABS sensor road speed info only comes from the abs computer.

The order of the codes may just be down to when the program detects a fault, and the code is recorded in the list. This may be split second timing when it's first powered up after the codes are cleared, and not necessarily the order of faults. More the order of when the program detects the error. The fact the codes clear and come back straight away means the faults are still present.

I assume you removed fuse 7 ABS under the dash and without refitting it the gear selection appeared on the dash? We could try this on our working v6's to see what happens.

If it were mine I would continue to check all wiring is correct. It does sound like a wiring issue. Could be a failed CAN bus port on something but that would be difficult to detect without something like a hawkeye to allow you to talk to it.

Have a look at the connector on the rear of the ABS pump/computer. You will be able to remove it. Look for bent/damaged pins. Do you have MK20 or MK25 ABS? What year is yer Freelander?

Hi all,
just out of interest, the next time you guys start up your KV6es, would you be so kind as to multimeter the battery and advise the voltage?
My KV6 read 13.6 and not higher.
Zefrench - it's a 2nd hand one. I plan to fit the 2nd hand working one and send my one for repairs and keep as spare.
But I would absolutely love it if you guys could let your KV6 idle for 1 minute, as I did, and then get the multimeter on the battery and advise what the voltage reading is.
Correct Hippo - I removed FL7 under the dash and only after removed was the LCD displaying the gear selection.
I also read on 1 site that a failure of the ABS ECU can cause a cascade effect to the CAN bus, which can also fail in whole if 2 or more computers cannot communicate. This seems to be consistent with my case as the ABS ECU wont be able to talk to either the EAT ECU and the instrumental panel via the CAN BUS. I've also, however, read on other sites that low battery voltages can sometimes cause this as well. A few guys on one site were stating that on many occasions, even though their Rovers can start including many after jump start, the battery just wasn't producing the volume of juice required so to speak.
If it's the battery, i'll kick myself... provided I can reach my backside with my own feet!
Yesterday when I was there, the battery started the KV6 on the first attempted but a few hours later in the day, no go.. used my dad's car to jump it.

Hi Hippo, yes the auto electrician used his scan tool on the diagnostics port. I should just now kick myself for not replacing the battery there and then t eliminate that as a fault, will do it next weekend.

Battery volts on mine 5 seconds after starting is about 14.4v.

Next weekend I'll change the battery. I just finished reading with interest another thread and the chap from the USA, Danielsland I think his name is, retired ex army or something similar from the sounds of things.
With interest, I notice the contact cleaner. I also note one of your responses Hippo where you merely used contact cleaner in the past to fix error codes, maybe I can spray some contact cleaner on to the ABS ECU connectors.

Hippo,
my ABS ECU would be an MK20, my KV6 is 2001, same as yours. I check some of the contacts, but I concede that I didn't remove it so probably it's impossible to check them all without removing, unless of course I'm a contortionist lol..

It's worth taking the connectors oft and giving them a clean. Anything alcohol based (evaporates) will be ok. You can buy electrical contact cleaner or I sometimes use pure alcohol. As long as the power is disconnected you'll be ok. Leave connectors to dry before putting back together. I don't think it will fix your problem but it's easy to do. Look for broken/bent pins at the same time. Don't bother putting contract grease in as it will probably make things worser. I did that to my auto's barrel connects. F4 flashing then cleaned it out as best I could at the road side to get home then cleaned it properly.

niccage said:

Hippo,
my ABS ECU would be an MK20, my KV6 is 2001, same as yours. I check some of the contacts, but I concede that I didn't remove it so probably it's impossible to check them all without removing, unless of course I'm a contortionist lol..

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I've had the wiring harness disconnected on mine. It's a bit of a pig to put back as the connector outer rectangle bit has to be pulled out slightly so it's mates up ok tot he receiving socket. OK to do once you spot this but fun for hours if you don't.

Hi all,
I sprayed electrical contacts cleaner on the 2 twist type connectors for the Jatco, and also on the connector for the ABS ECU unit (the replacement ABS ECU arrived but I didn't fit it). I then left all connectors d/c and 1 hour later, I returned with a new battery.
Starts up fine with a new battery and no more warning lamps at the dash. There's no more TC nor the HDC but the ABS stays on. The dash also displays which gear is selected. And this is without removing the ABS fuse. I try all gears but still it doesn't move. Reverse and all the forward gears, no drive at all. My father confirmed that the gear cable is connected correctly as it moves outside on the Jatco when I move the gear stick. I pressed the HDC switch and the green HDC light flashes. Interestingly, the automatic transmission fluid that I filled up last time is Nulon. I went in to the auto shop today and had a look at the Nulon packs and they don't mention the "N402 or Texaco" required specification. Should I order the Land Rover one, can this really make a difference? No other error is flashing on the dash, just the ABS light stays on, but I understand this will continue to stay on as I'm not moving, and supposed to extinguish after I start moving. F4 is not flashing either. Gear selector is nice and smooth. The original Nulon product that I bought, which is filled inside at present, said it was suitable for the Jatco, but I went to the same autoshop today and couldn't find that one on the shelf anymore - in fact, Nulon is unfortunately the only one they sell when it comes to auto trans fluids, they also have some Penrite, but none state N402 compatible. As funny as it may sound at first, I've seen some Internet discussions of guys claiming to have lost drive on their Kv6s due to the oil level being the wrong type or too low. I didn't check the level today, will do that tomorrow, in fact, maybe I should drain and refill with new, but where can I get an N402 certified here on a Sunday? I'd have to Internet order probably. What does everyone else think?

For the benefit of every other user, my older battery recently read 14.3 while the engine ran, what made me change it was that it wouldn't start up after sitting for only a week in the KV6 (with the negative terminal disconnected!). I was facing the prospect of another jump start, I went and purchased a new battery instead. The message I should have heeded earlier: If it no good to start with after sitting for a week with the negative terminal d/c - then buy a new battery!

Hi all,
this is the Nulon product I previously purchased (filled in at present in the Jatco), here's a link to it, notice under the sub heading "other claims" it states "Texaco N402". Hoping the following link to the product will work.
Texaco N402 - Nulon Products Australia

Reading on Rave that fill from dry is approx. 8 litres, it didn't feel like 8 litres when I filled it. That one bottle on the above link is 4L.

What should I do tomorrow to do it correctly, I'd like to completely drain and add, whats the procedure again? Should I let the engine idle in park for 5 mins to warm it up, etc? Or am I better off tomorrow simply opening the level check allen bolt and adding more fluid and wait for it to emerge from the level check bolt hole?

I notice with interest that RAVE states to raise the front of the vehicle for both the section "Drain and refill the Jatco" or in the maintenance section "topping up gearbox fluid". I didn't raise mine as I comfortably reached all bolts, etc, with the vehicle on ground.

Since I hadn't raised it, it might not necessarily be topped up to the correct level, pondering the thought whether this could be the case.

I can raise the front of it tomorrow on a trolley jack and top up the fluid. Though it states that when the level is checked, the temperature must be between 35 degrees Celsius and 45 degrees Celsius. What other method can give me the desired temperature for the fluid when I check it tomorrow, running for 5 mins before I open up the level plug? RAVE in it's procedure recommends that the engine be running when the fluid level is check but doesn't advise on the way to achieve the desired temperature, i.e between 35 and 45? I also note that the RAVE states to position vehicle on ramp and not to jack, I'm thinking this would be higher than barely the front wheels off the ground, trolley jack will probably not be able to lift it as high as a ramp, but that then again could be solved by jacking it up at the front sub frame I'm guessing.

Jatco auto level check method ere:

http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f9/jatco-automatic-gearbox-69336-5.html