I would just like to say

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Stanleysteamer said:
Hi mate, and thanks for this.
What I should have mentioned and forgot peeps don't always remember what I post in such detail is that the system is an underfloor heating system. NOT a WET one.
Each room has heating coils or cables in a special sort of concrete which sits below the floor tiles.
Each room or area has it's own stat. 11 in all I think. :eek:
Over a period of time they have started failing one bhy one. When you try to make one work the little red light just clicks on and off . They come in two parts, one sits in a box in the wall the other is the face plate. I have tried swoppoing face playtes from known good working ones and it makes no difference so I know the problems always lie with the hidden unit. It has at least three capacitors, two small cylindrical ones and one larger oblong yellow one. I suspect that this is where the problem lies but as you know I am now electronic engineer.

So In the past I have replaced two with modern versions of the originals. They even have the same make and model number but they now have LCDs and even more complexity and they are flipping expensive, €40 euros each and that was a few years ago!

So I am trying to replace them with much simpler bimetallic ones.
If I can get this one to work then I have found ones on the net far, far cheaper.

All they need to do is act as stats. They don't even need to do on-off, I can do that from the consumer unit.
So each unit's load wire goes off to a relay that switches power to the huge underfloor cables. Or does it? Does the neutral wire do it as well? This is the massive question I am trying to get my head around.

You need to speak to me in extremely simple terms.
And I can see while I have been typing this that you have added another couple of posts that I have yet to read.

Thanks for your help mate:):):):)
Click to expand...

Ur so welcome my friend

Ah , I see so u have electrical mat UFH, must confess never really dealt with electric UFH, but did do a vast amount of wet UFH that had manifolds to control each zone

Saying that it sounds similar in u have a room thermostat in according zones, that when it’s set to call it triggers a relay and therefore turns that particular zone on

Very similar to a wet UFH, where the room thermostat which open a valve actuator and therefore allow the hot eater to enter that zone

So the stats are just a make and break circuit to each relay and then onto the mat zone

When I had faults I would use a multimeter and test live in and back out , following the circuit towards each zone , so when for example a room thermostat would work I would link it out and carry on towards to the activation valve or in ur case the relay if I’m understanding it correctly

if ur unsure With an electric Matt I would assume u could find each end of the wires that go to each Matt and do a continuity test ,

So indeed should be easy to follow power or continuity from the thermostat to eaxh UFH mat

Hope that makes sense
 
Stanleysteamer said:
Gary, I think I am going to have to start a PM with you as this will be boring for peeps not involved.
I'll put up pics, wiring diags and notes on what I have discovered with a meter, for both sorts of stats and maybe you will be able to help me figure it out.
I am scared that what seems obvious really isn't that obvious.

Really really grateful for your help, mate.

But first comes the voyage into the internals of the dishwasher!!
:):):)
Click to expand...

No probs, when u send over a Pm ill put my email in there for u to make life easier in sending diagrams etc over

I’ll sit down and have a good read through all of it for u and help as much as I can
 
gstuart said:
Ur so welcome my friend

Ah , I see so u have electrical mat UFH, must confess never really dealt with electric UFH, but did do a vast amount of wet UFH that had manifolds to control each zone

Saying that it sounds similar in u have a room thermostat in according zones, that when it’s set to call it triggers a relay and therefore turns that particular zone on

Very similar to a wet UFH, where the room thermostat which open a valve actuator and therefore allow the hot eater to enter that zone

So the stats are just a make and break circuit to each relay and then onto the mat zone

When I had faults I would use a multimeter and test live in and back out , following the circuit towards each zone , so when for example a room thermostat would work I would link it out and carry on towards to the activation valve or in ur case the relay if I’m understanding it correctly

if ur unsure With an electric Matt I would assume u could find each end of the wires that go to each Matt and do a continuity test ,

So indeed should be easy to follow power or continuity from the thermostat to eaxh UFH mat

Hope that makes sense
Click to expand...
The good thing is that each fault manifests itself in exactly the same way, the stat fails into a blinking and switching on-off on-off over and over again mode. (Just occasionally one will then start to work properly). But as I can swop stats around I can be sure that there is nothing else wrong with each system as a good stat turns the heating on and carries on working properly.

So I have no need to test continuity from the stat to the rest of it. To get to the ends of the wires would not be that easy as they would be hidden behind the consumer unit. if indeed they'd be there and not hidden buried in concrete. But I doubt that. The relays must be hidden somwhere behind the RCBs.
 
Stanleysteamer said:
Glad you are getting it sorted propah.
Pockets on Pool tables are far too big to get games over quicker and more money in the machine.
I think you need to relate the size of the pocket to the size of the ball, more than width from distance.
If you make the pockets small due to them being closer but it is then too hard to get the balls in the pockets it ain't really fair.
Only you will know, but just thinking off the cuff.
And I do know that making the side pockets will be very different to making the corner ones.
Where are you getting the rubber from to go along the sides and ends?
Click to expand...
Pockets on tables at pubs and clubs are often bigger because owners ask for this. The more often peeps pot balls the happier they is. At the moment this is a test table to see if mdf will bend causing problems with play, before eye cover it in propper cloth and rubber. So its done on the cheap. Correct size 3 gram difference balls at a third of the price. They're within 1 gram of each other anyway which is tournament spec. Measured em ont scales at wuk. Correct weight and size as they're aramith like what the majority use int trade. Eye want to learn on a 12 foot table but dun't have the space ferrit wivoot knocking walls down. Hence tinkering wiv pocket size. You can buy the propper L shape northern rubber online but its 200 sovs so assa a temp test eye is using door foam which bounces surprisly well.

Table and pocket dims ere

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Stanleysteamer said:
The good thing is that each fault manifests itself in exactly the same way, the stat fails into a blinking and switching on-off on-off over and over again mode. (Just occasionally one will then start to work properly). But as I can swop stats around I can be sure that there is nothing else wrong with each system as a good stat turns the heating on and carries on working properly.

So I have no need to test continuity from the stat to the rest of it. To get to the ends of the wires would not be that easy as they would be hidden behind the consumer unit. if indeed they'd be there and not hidden buried in concrete. But I doubt that. The relays must be hidden somwhere behind the RCBs.
Click to expand...

Good call as that simplifies things with being able to swap the room stat from one to another

Seems the days where a schematic is left with the home owners are gone, would often see installers or service personal take them with them leaving the home owner with the hassle or another service tech that wishes to see what kind of system has been installed

On electric UFH systems that I’ve seen in the past there’s normally been a connection box where the Matt zone wires have come out of the slab and then onto a master box with all the relays and fuses etc, but being honest not really got that much involved with them only in wet UFH systems

Did they happen to leave u anything as in the make, model etc plse as sometimes they use there own company name

Sorry that’s not much help my friend but more than happy to search through some of my old hard drives etc where I kept alot of stuff on in relation to UFH systems including some electric
 
Stanleysteamer said:
Thanks for this. although I'm not in the market for one at the mo!
on replaceable brushes, looks like real poop to me, but then I keep everything forever.
My ex s-i-l STILL cannot believe that I am still using his discarded Dewalt drill.
But then it was built in the days when they bothered to make a lot less of it out of plastic and more out of steel or ally.;)
Click to expand...

Likewise in trying to keep tools etc as long as possible

Some of my favourite tools were from ELU , until some scrote cleared my van out, was seriously gutted as really liked them, including hand tools that you’ve adapted for different tasks that have taken years to put together and all gone in the blink of any eye
 
Last edited:
Stanleysteamer said:
Hi mate, and thanks for this.
What I should have mentioned and forgot peeps don't always remember what I post in such detail is that the system is an underfloor heating system. NOT a WET one.
Each room has heating coils or cables in a special sort of concrete which sits below the floor tiles.
Each room or area has it's own stat. 11 in all I think. :eek:
Over a period of time they have started failing one bhy one. When you try to make one work the little red light just clicks on and off . They come in two parts, one sits in a box in the wall the other is the face plate. I have tried swoppoing face playtes from known good working ones and it makes no difference so I know the problems always lie with the hidden unit. It has at least three capacitors, two small cylindrical ones and one larger oblong yellow one. I suspect that this is where the problem lies but as you know I am now electronic engineer.

So In the past I have replaced two with modern versions of the originals. They even have the same make and model number but they now have LCDs and even more complexity and they are flipping expensive, €40 euros each and that was a few years ago!

So I am trying to replace them with much simpler bimetallic ones.
If I can get this one to work then I have found ones on the net far, far cheaper.

All they need to do is act as stats. They don't even need to do on-off, I can do that from the consumer unit.
So each unit's load wire goes off to a relay that switches power to the huge underfloor cables. Or does it? Does the neutral wire do it as well? This is the massive question I am trying to get my head around.

You need to speak to me in extremely simple terms.
And I can see while I have been typing this that you have added another couple of posts that I have yet to read.

Thanks for your help mate:):):):)
Click to expand...
Are the relays in the back box in the wall or another place?

J
 
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