I would just like to say

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Dippypud said:
"33" isn't, but it's a nice drop of beer blonde to drink in the sunshine ...
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You're right 33 and quite few of the others that we buy by the case are cheap. cheerful and won't blow your socks off.
But I always buy a few of the more interesting ones.
Don't know what has happened to Trappiste, used to have two different coloured tops. Red and blue. Both were strong but one was stronger than the other. Think they are going through the throes of being taken over.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_in_France#Monastic_brewing
Beer in France is interesting at the moment.
When i lived in Lille it was and in many ways still is, the centre of French brewing, due to its history.
There used to be a café called the "Cave a Jacques" where you were given a menu like a concertina which opened up reveal their beers by country. You could order it in huge bottles although you had to pay extra to take the bottles home, AND they had a guy playing the piano, often a guy from the conservatoire.
Will have to check to see if it is still there, we are talking about 1979 here!
Nope, it's gone! Lille has changed so much.:(:(:(
Anyway, I thoroughly recommend Leffe beers to all peeps who like beer and go to France. Not expensive, not too strong but very flavoursome.:):):)
 
JimS said:
Fairly sure if it goes through there would be provision for some kind of free ID for those without the means. It does beg the question how can they be renting with no id? Not registered anywhere? It's interesting how people decide we don't need it.... it's common practice in the EU which I thought was better than us :rolleyes:
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Plans for free voter ID are being put in place and interestingly the Gov have stated that they know from their experience NI it will not reduce numbers of voters.

That is a direct lie, turnout immediately and substantially fell in NI after voter ID was introduced and has not fully recovered to pre ID levels.

Why lie?

It's known that those without the required ID are primarily the young and the poor.

I wonder who they'd be least likely to vote for if they had the chance?

There are some, or rather have been legitimate concerns about postal vote fraud which voter ID will not change in any way.

There is nothing to suggest personal voter fraud is an issue in any way so why fix something that works, not fix something that has been an issue AND lie about that effect it will have?
 
blue beasty said:
Plans for free voter ID are being put in place and interestingly the Gov have stated that they know from their experience NI it will not reduce numbers of voters.

That is a direct lie, turnout immediately and substantially fell in NI after voter ID was introduced and has not fully recovered to pre ID levels.

Why lie?

It's known that those without the required ID are primarily the young and the poor.

I wonder who they'd be least likely to vote for if they had the chance?

There are some, or rather have been legitimate concerns about postal vote fraud which voter ID will not change in any way.

There is nothing to suggest personal voter fraud is an issue in any way so why fix something that works, not fix something that has been an issue AND lie about that effect it will have?
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these seem to disagree with you

After some teething trouble, the experience of voter ID in Northern Ireland has been positive. There were initial political controversies about which forms of ID were legally accepted and which were not. Following the 1985 Northern Ireland local government elections, the first at which ID was required, some politicians claimed that as many as 1 in 10 voters had been turned away from polling stations in some areas. But the controversies diminished with each subsequent election, as political parties and voters adapted to the requirements. There was no evidence to suggest a fall in turnout, but there was plenty of evidence that fraud declined sharply. At the 2005 UK General Election, just 55 tendered ballots were issued in Northern Ireland, a 94% reduction compared to 1983. There has been just one conviction for personation in Northern Ireland since 2002. Meanwhile, public confidence in the integrity of elections in Northern Ireland is up. In the early 2000s, 66% of Northern Irish electors believed electoral fraud was commonplace in some areas. By 2017, the proportion who thought at least some fraud took place was 28%, in line with the rest of the UK.
https://www.democraticaudit.com/201...ning-the-right-lessons-from-northern-ireland/
 
jamesmartin said:
these seem to disagree with you

After some teething trouble, the experience of voter ID in Northern Ireland has been positive. There were initial political controversies about which forms of ID were legally accepted and which were not. Following the 1985 Northern Ireland local government elections, the first at which ID was required, some politicians claimed that as many as 1 in 10 voters had been turned away from polling stations in some areas. But the controversies diminished with each subsequent election, as political parties and voters adapted to the requirements. There was no evidence to suggest a fall in turnout, but there was plenty of evidence that fraud declined sharply. At the 2005 UK General Election, just 55 tendered ballots were issued in Northern Ireland, a 94% reduction compared to 1983. There has been just one conviction for personation in Northern Ireland since 2002. Meanwhile, public confidence in the integrity of elections in Northern Ireland is up. In the early 2000s, 66% of Northern Irish electors believed electoral fraud was commonplace in some areas. By 2017, the proportion who thought at least some fraud took place was 28%, in line with the rest of the UK.
https://www.democraticaudit.com/201...ning-the-right-lessons-from-northern-ireland/
Click to expand...

How common voters THINK fraud is is about as far away from fact as you can get and wouldn't be included in any serious article.
 
jamesmartin said:
thats not the relevant part of the piece ,though confidence is very important,
either you or them arent been honest about id and turnout
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Addresses different issues.

I never said anyone was turned away but it is a fact turnout dropped.

It's estimated 3.5million people over 18 don't have photo ID in the UK.

Some of them will apply for voter ID but many won't as we all know they are among the least likely to be motivated to vote anyway and unlikely to vote Conservative if they are.

The Electoral Commission don't think in person voter fraud is a problem and it's literally their job to know.

It's a solution looking for a problem and a cynical political ploy to gain advantage.

You can argue around that all night but we both know that's true so I'll leave you to it.
 
blue beasty said:
Addresses different issues.

I never said anyone was turned away but it is a fact turnout dropped.

It's estimated 3.5million people over 18 don't have photo ID in the UK.

Some of them will apply for voter ID but many won't as we all know they are among the least likely to be motivated to vote anyway and unlikely to vote Conservative if they are.

The Electoral Commission don't think in person voter fraud is a problem and it's literally their job to know.

It's a solution looking for a problem and a cynical political ploy to gain advantage.

You can argue around that all night but we both know that's true so I'll leave you to it.
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you said turnout dropped and hasnt recovered ,if you read the link turnout did recover,your accusing govt of lying whilst not been fully honest yourself
 
jamesmartin said:
you said turnout dropped and hasnt recovered ,if you read the link turnout did recover,your accusing govt of lying whilst not been fully honest yourself
Click to expand...

Look it up, how long did it take for turnout to get back close to pre ID levels and then square that with the Gov saying it won't effect turnout...

Still, I'm gonna let this thread get back on topic :)
 
jamesmartin said:
it is a fact the young do need id to buy certain items,my kids now all have driving licenses but prior they all got id just like their peers
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Your life experiences are so limited they have given you a very strange outlook on the world as a whole. If it keeps you happy then just carry on in your cocoon beliefs - all sorts are needed to make the world tick.:)
 
derwendolly said:
Your life experiences are so limited they have given you a very strange outlook on the world as a whole. If it keeps you happy then just carry on in your cocoon beliefs - all sorts are needed to make the world tick.:)
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its not a belief its a very general experience your kids do get ids like everyone elses,you may have noticed the signs in shops
 
jamesmartin said:
its not a belief its a very general experience your kids do get ids like everyone elses,you may have noticed the signs in shops
Click to expand...
And you might have realised that no matter how many notices are put there are many, many youngsters (outside your experience) who find alternative ways of dealing with this little inconvenience! :D:D:D
 
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