Hertfordshire Lanes?????

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goonarmy said:
I know full well about erosion, im a geologist. Im not trying to take anything away from anyone, well done to all who help others whilst in their landys, but that wont keep lanes open or alter public opinion.
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Ahhhhh, on the last page you had a construction company, and I just thought you were a builder, if I had known you were a geologist I wouldn't have questioned your statement :D

But because I have questioned it, it's only fair that I give you a chance to explain why I am wrong in thinking that if it rains, and that rain runs down a lane in freelander sized ruts, then it will erode those ruts until eventually they become defender sized ruts, if you explain that, (I'm smart enough to understand) then I'm big enough to admit that I am wrong.

And while I am disagreeing with you, I have to say that if 4 white vans stopped and helped the police maintain a road block, in their free time, my opinion of builders would go up a million perecent. But that's my opinion, and yours is diferent, and that's cool :)

Soil errosion on the other hand should be fact and not opinion, otherwise we need to start stringing up the scientists :D
 
I think this is excellent, very constructive. i think we're all in agreement with the fact that ramblers have issues with us doing certain things, and i think we all agree that we shoudlnt stop doing them, as long as they are proper and legal.
I dont think anyone has meant to offend anyone intentionally.
I can see points of view from a mud plugger, to a 4x4 response to a police point of view as i do all of them.
I am very good mates with the Herts and Beds GLASS rep. he's a nice chap and works on the emergency planning department for the council. he watches this thread on a regular basis, and after speaking with him, he doesnt think that we're the devil but quite the opposite and that we are a considerate bunch who take care of eachother and offer a valuable resource.
The photos have been mentioned and we just need to be careful, as the pictures show an image that wants to be seen, not the truth. e.g it shows us having a good time and not really causing any damage, but if a rambler looks at it, then it can be seen as mud flying everywhere damaging the track and surrounding area. when really its loose mud deposits coming away from the tyres.....
i think you've all made some excellent points. Keep it up
 
Spyderman said:
As more lanes get closed all it does is put more pressure on the remaining ones. We're down to less than 2% now. Would be easier for the council to make the remaining ones vehicles only and ban pedestrians, don't spend any money maintaining them, leave it to the users to maintain them. Construct barriers at each end that only 4x4's can get over, to stop fly tipping. Another alternative is to open more up to relieve the pressure on the few. Other alternative is to close them all and they'll be lost to everyone as they'll become overgrown and biodiversity will go.
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Wow thats some reading you guys ....

Hey When were all dead and buried ,, The birds will still sing , trees will be older, stinging nettles will still sting and brambles still cut ,, Rocks will still be rocks and earth will be earth . The lane will still be a lane . .. Natures way ,,


Peace out to you all ..... :hippie:
 
Booger said:
Ahhhhh, on the last page you had a construction company, and I just thought you were a builder, if I had known you were a geologist I wouldn't have questioned your statement :D

But because I have questioned it, it's only fair that I give you a chance to explain why I am wrong in thinking that if it rains, and that rain runs down a lane in freelander sized ruts, then it will erode those ruts until eventually they become defender sized ruts, if you explain that, (I'm smart enough to understand) then I'm big enough to admit that I am wrong.

And while I am disagreeing with you, I have to say that if 4 white vans stopped and helped the police maintain a road block, in their free time, my opinion of builders would go up a million perecent. But that's my opinion, and yours is diferent, and that's cool :)

Soil errosion on the other hand should be fact and not opinion, otherwise we need to start stringing up the scientists :D
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I dont own the company but yeah our vans were white(crapy combos). There are two main points against your erosion theory.
Firstly, you make it sound like once the soil/rocks/material making up a lane is eroded its gone.The process of erosion is not one of destruction but one of relocation.The soil/stone/old shopping trolleys are removed (eroded) and put some where else (deposition) by the elements.This leads us on to the second point but we'll come to that in a minute. If the soil below the lane is removed it must be replaced somewhere else, for example a local water course or maybe washed out onto the road.Now in both of these cases there would be reactionary measure to prevent this happening again, driven by the relevent bodies, EA, local council, highways agency etc. This would lead to lanes being surfaced.Thus leaving the lane open, but for all vehicles, not just standard or otherwise landys.Either that or the erosion process hapens at a negligible rate, ie deposition and erosion have an equilibrium.
The second point is how much energy is required to eorde a lane?Herts, essex etc in our manor is faily flat, with a clayey soil dominant, but lots of areas of gravel.So the main natural erosionary force will be water.As stated before the south east is fairly flat and there aint gonna be any rging flash floods down the middle of yer lanes.There probbaly is flooding but not white water rafting type stuff.Now if the erosional forces are low energy standing or slow moving water how will they erode firm based acient roads?Gravel will require much more energy than clay to erode due to the particle size.Ruts will form when an energy is applied great enough to move the mud/gravels.This will happen in localised areas, ie under yerwheels. Think about it if an erosional force is applied to a lane why would it carve out only two chanels?Yes it will exploit any weakness in the surface but id be surpised if they are a parrallel axle width apart.
So please dont string up the scientists(which i consider me self) or the builders (which i work with and so might get caught up in the mele ensuing the aforementioned lynchings).
 
goonarmy said:
I dont own the company but yeah our vans were white(crapy combos). There are two main points against your erosion theory.
Firstly, you make it sound like once the soil/rocks/material making up a lane is eroded its gone.The process of erosion is not one of destruction but one of relocation.The soil/stone/old shopping trolleys are removed (eroded) and put some where else (deposition) by the elements.This leads us on to the second point but we'll come to that in a minute. If the soil below the lane is removed it must be replaced somewhere else, for example a local water course or maybe washed out onto the road.Now in both of these cases there would be reactionary measure to prevent this happening again, driven by the relevent bodies, EA, local council, highways agency etc. This would lead to lanes being surfaced.Thus leaving the lane open, but for all vehicles, not just standard or otherwise landys.Either that or the erosion process hapens at a negligible rate, ie deposition and erosion have an equilibrium.
The second point is how much energy is required to eorde a lane?Herts, essex etc in our manor is faily flat, with a clayey soil dominant, but lots of areas of gravel.So the main natural erosionary force will be water.As stated before the south east is fairly flat and there aint gonna be any rging flash floods down the middle of yer lanes.There probbaly is flooding but not white water rafting type stuff.Now if the erosional forces are low energy standing or slow moving water how will they erode firm based acient roads?Gravel will require much more energy than clay to erode due to the particle size.Ruts will form when an energy is applied great enough to move the mud/gravels.This will happen in localised areas, ie under yerwheels. Think about it if an erosional force is applied to a lane why would it carve out only two chanels?Yes it will exploit any weakness in the surface but id be surpised if they are a parrallel axle width apart.
So please dont string up the scientists(which i consider me self) or the builders (which i work with and so might get caught up in the mele ensuing the aforementioned lynchings).
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Okay I lied when I said would understand :D But using that logic can't we say that we are not damaging the lanes, just relocating them :hysterically_laughi
 
OK I have kept fairly quiet in this here debate, but I would like to point out the following.

All you lot who said that Ramblers don't like 4x4s, or that Ramblers are anti land rover are wrong. No ifs No Buts simply wrong.

Over 80% of ramblers that I have met ( a lot ) simply have no opinioin one way or the other. In fact the ramblers assn forum critisizes horse riders much more than it does 4 x 4 drivers.

The source of the anti 4x4 movement is the Ramblers Association. An organisation to which most ramblers do not belong, and those who do are not allowed to post open comments on their forum.

The Ramblers Association is a politically based organisation for the the lobbying of MPs to eliminate as many other use groups from the countryside as possible. Members whose opinions do not reflect the RA stated aims are not allowed to make their opinions or comments known on the RA forum. Many gestapo type overseers proof read each post before it is allowed to appear on the forum. In this way the RA can say that they do not have any members who post opinions that differ from their own political beliefs.

WALKERS on the other hand are a very different group. Occasionally there appears the exception to the rule and we will meet a walker/rambler who will try to disrupt our path past them. Usually by the time we have given them a sweet smile and my two year old has blown kisses at them (rather than hurling a recently filled nappy in their direction like I would like to do sometimes), they are more ameanable.

We can not complain at them tarring us all with the same brush, is we are too closed minded and do the same to them.

Remember a Good Rambler Association Member has tyre marks up the back of his coat... a Good Walker just moved out of the way.

Just my opinion.

Ryder
 
Gooney,

I read your comments with interest. But is it not true that where ruts exist, and rain falls, there will tend to be more effect in the rut than on level ground?

If the rut is running up or downhill (is there a difference?) then the running water will tend to confine itself more into the rut than diffusing into the surrounding terrain. The passing water therefore having more impact on the rutted ground than on the level ground either side.

This is not necessarily an agrument against your point, since I am simply not qualified to contradict you, but it does seem a sensible logical conclusion.
 
I'm now well bored of this debate, so I'm going to shut the hell up.

Did anyone notice how many half naked ladies were out in heat yeasterday, I nearly crashed on 5 seperate occasions :screaming_bug_eye_f
 
Ryder said:
Gooney,

I read your comments with interest. But is it not true that where ruts exist, and rain falls, there will tend to be more effect in the rut than on level ground?

If the rut is running up or downhill (is there a difference?) then the running water will tend to confine itself more into the rut than diffusing into the surrounding terrain. The passing water therefore having more impact on the rutted ground than on the level ground either side.

This is not necessarily an agrument against your point, since I am simply not qualified to contradict you, but it does seem a sensible logical conclusion.
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Very true but how were the ruts created in the first place?If a lane was eroded naturally the ruts would occur in the weakest strata.This is accerlarated (Note i didnt out caused) by the friction from traffic.This includes horses, tractors and ramblers too. Anyway how much clout does the RA have? I know i was surpised at the evils stares i was getting first time i was laning.The same people would have said hello if i was hiking the routes. They wouldnt do it on the high street.Bloody double standards.
 
hi all , oh my god what did i start ?? SORRY !!
Booger, being a lorry driver and sitting about 6 ft in the air its amazing what the ladies are wearing or not ! gotta love the sun
 
Hey Gaz what firm do u drive for? Anyone local? I want to take my HGV at some point thinking about going with the guys opposite glenn transport CTT
 
GAZ68 said:
hi all , oh my god what did i start ?? SORRY !!
Booger, being a lorry driver and sitting about 6 ft in the air its amazing what the ladies are wearing or not ! gotta love the sun
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Bit of healthy debate never hurt no one.
Also birds wearing not very much never hurt anyone.
Cept the blokes who crash or walk into stuff cos they aint looking where they are going.:p
 
hi Jai, i work for a company called GEFCO ! they are based in Coventry but our job is all to do with IBC so we are based in Luton , CTT in Leighton have one of the best pass rates in the area . Go for it mate dont think its cheap tho ? then ya can perv down on the lovely ladies like the rest of us !!
 
it wasnt as hot to day so not that many out and about :p

just been out for a drive in the 90 and notice a slight whinning noise. got back home and checked diff levels. front one is really low. i mean cant even feel the oil level with my finger! does any one know if there a gasket in between the diff housing and the axel housing? as i believe its been off before as theres easy gasket coming out around it and its weaping oil.
cheers dale
 
Gooney, in answer to your question...

When you start to ask how much clout the RA has, it is necessary to look at the type of people that the RA counts as members. Most of the members are run of the mill walkers who use the RA resources to enhance their own hobby... nothing wrong with that. It is the governing body of the association, however, that pose the most threat to other users of the countryside.

Those people tend to be higher income; higher profile members of the organisation who have access to MPs for lobbying purposes. They have a superb command of the english language as used in politics (not to be confused with the straight talking we find at grass roots forum level here), and the influence to ensure that their opinions are noted by their local council members as well as their local MPs.

They do tend to have one failing though. The ramblers association is not a popular group among land owners, especially farmers. Mt own rsearch this week has highlighted a couple of cases where ramblers are trying to sue farmers for the actions of cows on their farms, when they appeared to take a defensive stance to protect their newborn.

I have spoken to a local farmers wife who complains bitterly about finding ramblers sitting in their garden, using their personal picnic table to eat their lunch and dropping litter all over their garden, simply because their garden has a gate at one end! This is not an exageration I assure you and it happened in Toddington a village just a couple of miles away from me.

The RA is, without doubt, the body of people who pose almost the most threat to our beloved passtime.

The other body of people are the assholes. The rogue drivers and motorcyclists who have been described before and will be again I am sure. These are the people who give the RA the ammunition they need.

With the right ammunition, and the degree of influence the RA has at its disposal, we face an almost insurmountable obstacle. While the Green Laning community stands so fragmented we don't have a chance in hell.
 
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