engine out!!!!

Mornin Guys...FPS, 11-13 Oakham Drive, Sheffield, 0845 4564133, Off Rutland Rd.

Andy, know how you feel, what with pressure from "Her Indoors" and the feeling of ****ing against the wind, especially when out of work. Trouble is, you never know what the next car is going to be like. I retired last year so funds are a lot lower than when I was working. I too have had the heartache of spending £14K on my Rangie a few years ago and for the first couple of years getting under it and throwing cash at it. However, it all came together and the old Gal is as reliable as anything on the road. OK had to do the springs and brake pipes a few weeks ago but the springs are like tyres, have a life span and the pipes go on any car after a few years. Thing is, I enjoy the car, plus if I was to sell it now I would only get a few quid for it..rather give it away or let it disintegrate before selling for a couple of grand. You have the Rovacom, try and get to know it and you should be able to earn a few bob. Apart from the known water problems, the V8 is pretty bomb proof, unusual to hear of Gav's piston ring failure or even bearing failure. Camshafts, yes..but they wear out on other cars too. Think hard about your decision, don't just rush into the repair thinking "It's going", you may feel differently when it's sorted. Good Luck to both of you and other despondent owners out there.:tea::ballchain::smokin:

thats the way i figured it and convinced the wife to stop moaning about the cash pit i bought. i aint repairing it to make money, i'm repairing it cos i like the car!!! apart from that its not worth that much so i wouldnt really get any cash back for it. its about damage limitation!

Did you give FPS a call Gav??????????

not yet mate got to get the engine to bits and measure the damn things first, or so i am told. if the pistons are stamped stadard and the the rings will be standard? do i just fit standard rings and its done or do i have to measure each piston and get rings accordingly or is there more to it.

whenever i have done pistons its been on bikes and i just got em rebored more often than not with a set (piston and rings) together to suit!

basically instead of all that waffle, what the fxxk am i doing????

i know wifes uncle is the expert but i like to know a bit beforehand so i can understand what i'm doing rather than just be told and watch how its done!

If they are standard size pistons, the ring set will be standard. Although there is a slight deviation when they build the engine, the rings will still be standard after all they are "Springy" to take up the clearances. I can't see anyone reboring a liner, they would just replace it, plus you say that you can still see traces of the cross hatching. I'll put 10 pints of Black Stuff that they are standard and that goes for the big end and main bearings also.

what about wear, as i see it its either the rings that have worn and/or become brittle in some way and are not springing. or broke and disappeared up the exhaust!. or the liner is worn. now i assume the rings are the more wearoutable(is that a word) and are designed to be a throwaway item. they are on bikes mostly.

if the cross hatchings is still on the bore of the liners then i would assume minimum wear has taken place to the bore and there is a problem with the rings, i reckon one of the oil scrapers has gone west for the amount of smoke there is present.

will new standard rings be ok, do rings wear down with use or will the bore be worn enough to warrant rebore? if its the oil scraper then i assume replacing the rings and scrapers work?

i'm a bit confuddled but i think you know what i'm getting at!

Hi Gav.... majority of bore wear takes place at the upper end of the stroke, hence the ridge that is formed at the top of the cylinder. My eperience of V8's is that they are so robust that minimal wear takes place. If the rings had broken up, I would expect to see scoring or similar on the liners. Could be that the rins ar just worn ot..unusual for a V8 but you bought the engine on the sellers word "Only done 15000, full dealer service history etc. etc"
V8's will stand a fair amount of abuse and unless it's had the arse flogged out of it, I feel that just a ring and bearing replacement will do it. When the pistons are out, see if the cross hatching is all the way up the bore. A double check is to place a new ring in the bore ad measure the gap between the ends of the ring at the bottom of the bore and about quarter of an inch down from the top..this will give you an indication of the amount of bore wear. I feel it will be minimal. You may find upon dismantling, that the rings are coked up, just be sure to break an old ring and use it to clean all the ****e from the grooves..very therapeutic!!!
I reiterate that I feel standard rings and bearings..provided the bores or crank are not scored will sort things out. If you have a 1-2" micrometer, measure the crank journals and they should have less than .0015" ovality, otherwise you may need a regrind.
Pity I'm not over there, I would have popped up the M1 to see if I could help.:beer2:
PM me if you want a chat...John

i can post the lot to ireland and you can send it back all shiney and new if ya want????

no doubt i will be chatting to ya tommorrow night as i'm gonna strip it in the morning, i have an old gasket(well 3 now) so i'll draw a little diagram with measurements of bores/condition etc as best i can although i dont have any new rings. its a bit of a catch 22, need a new ring to measure but cant buy till measured!! story of my life.

i'll check for damage first anything obvious, then measure bores but i wont be taking pistons out till nxt w/end as i'll be pushed for time.

the crank will be staying in unless again there is any damage, will it need new shells. is it best to replace shells or will this open another can of worms. shall i just chec for wear and replace if needed or replace anyway. again it'll need measuring etc so thats another catch 22 when it was running i was told the crank/engine sounded 'quiet enough' with no obvious rattles. i got it running sweet xcept for the oil burning, turns out the recomended torq for the plugs is a little shy of what it needed.

the rave should state 'as tight as gavs three fingers on right hand can pull the long wrench without using his arm muscles very much' and that would be more accurate for my engine, ofcourse i would mean me tightening every plug in every v8 in the land, job for life!

i'm pretty much of the same mind, new rings and shells and slam it all back together.

also will i need new stretch bolts, these were new and have done about 20 yards!! also gaskets will need replacing, its cost more in head gaskets than fuel in the last year!!

Get a wire brush on the piston crowns so that you can see any makks stamped on them, just one will do, nobody would rebore just one pot!!
Yes Gav..if you're removing the big end caps, replace the shells..depending on how they look, it's up to you if you want to replacce the mains as well.
I'm tatting around tomorrow-catching up on the gardening I've missed for the past couple of weeks. Chat tomorrow night..or before if you need to.

right i,ll join in now with my little woe,i managed to remove the rear bearing and removed the crucifix seals or rather they fell to bits,fitted new ones which look like a crucifix old ones looked like an od shaped cross,manged to get it all back together without disturbing anything.anyway the beastie is back together and running,now for the next problem the car drives forward lovelly forward put in reverse as soon as the revs hit just above 1000rpm i get what sounds like a scraping noise it doesn,t do it if i reverse engine ticking over or in low range over 1000rpm,don,t suppose anyone has got any idea im going to check the atf tommorow and try and pin down where exactly the sound is coming from.

At least you are getting there Andy. Have you checked the auto box fluid level? You know the score, check it when cold on tickover, go through all the gears and check with the engine running and the box in neutral.
This saga between yourself and Gav. has all the makings of a best seller!! One thing though Guys-it's enlightening for the rest of the forum, especially those who post "My fag lighter's not working!!"

im going to check the atf in the morning john,ive got a service kit for it,but i think before i bang it in i,ll check it first incase of something nasty.

got to admit sick of gearboxes ive just serviced the one on my mates shogun this morning before i cracked on with the crucifix seals

hi guys,well this engine saga puts my viscous fan problem right in the shade,well done guys,especially to all the people who take the time and effort to find the answers to the various problems that crop up,especially with this engine saga,cheers gemsdad.

there will be still more to come,when gav takes his pots out the block

andy, you did keep the torq converter in place when you had engine out didnt you? did it driver after first attempt at seal. has it only appeared from this time?

if the torq converter isnt located on the oil thingy( this is where i get lost) it can knacker it.

i read this somewhere and when putting the torq conv back in you have to rock it back and forth 3 times to locate it. that bit i got from the jamaican fella at the yard where i do my car. i'm sure you know all this but just in case!

no doubt there will be loads to come even after engine is fixxed i have a computer to build into it, thats gonna involve filler and spray paint and a 7 inch touchscreen! then theres the diffs to overhaul. cant see that bieng much of a challenge. airbag and eas to overhaul i for the life of me i cant find replacement seat covers and heated seat elements. i have found window regs at about 36 quid tho. and the final job, i will be learning how to prep for a respray to get it all looking like new!!(just a blow over with the same colour to get rid of a couple of dings not high on list as i scratch it on trees on lanes! then there will be other bits and bobs to attend to!!!)

the torque convertor was locked in place with using your method gav,when i first removed the engine,last week,and has driven fine as when i put it back together i did the does it rotate freely and move slightly back and forth before i fitted the driveplate to convertor bolts,it,s only since i removed just the rear bearing in situ to redoe the crucifix seals which went pretty smooth yesterday,but to be honest it,s very rare i need to put my foot down in reverse,but im going to service the autobox and transfer box today,then i,ll see what happens

its only reverse so its not that important really. was just checking!!!

well ive serviced the auto box with a new filter,and everything seems ok upto now,the oil i took out was nice and clean and a lovelly cherry colour but it seems more came out than what ive put back in,done the transfer box aswell and that was nice and clean aswell,so fingers crossed it was just feeling a bit unwell

i assume you checked it after a run and with engine running

it,s been for a good run out,everything rechecked and it,s fine,just waiting for the next gremlin to appear