In message <
[email protected]>
Mike Romain <
[email protected]> wrote:
> "richard.watson" wrote:
> >
> > In message <[email protected]>
> > Mike Romain <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > Chris Lord wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "Mike Romain" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > > "Andy.Smalley" wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Mike Romain" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Let me know when and where eh so I can be there with my camera.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > They get good prices for photos of death and mayhem these days as well
> > > > > > > the Darwin awards are always looking for new winners! If you live, I
> > > > > > > guess we could try for the 'funniest videos' like the fools this
> > > > thread
> > > > > > > is about.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Here is what can happen when a piece of metal breaks loose in a tow.
> > > > > > > This was a strap with a metal end. The metal end went ballistic.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > http://www.southernhighrollers.com/tips/articles/a_near_miss_from.htm
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Note the strap came in the back, right through the seat and out the
> > > > > > > front windshield narrowly avoiding killing the driver.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mike
> > > > > > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > > > > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The article states the reason it did this was:
> > > > > > "The hook to the frame rail did not come loose; it pulled a nice
> > > > > > neat piece from the rail"
> > > > > > so basically it's nothing to do with 50mm tow balls
> > > > > > only rusty/insecure chassis bits (as fitted as standard to LR's)
> > > > > > flying when towing out of mud
> > > > > >
> > > > > > or have I missed the point
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > It shows the kind of stress and potential of loose bits of metal at the
> > > > > end of tow ropes.
> > > > >
> > > > > That was only a metal D ring! Just imagine a 50 mm 'cannon' ball
> > > > > letting loose!
> > > > >
> > > > > Like I mentioned in another post, that 'toy' 3500 kg or 50 mm tow ball
> > > > > would snap off in a second if I used the full power of my winch on it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Only a fool would trust theirs and bystander's lives to a tow ball in an
> > > > > extraction situation.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > >
> > > > The yanks have always got to tackle something with full on power.
> > > >
> > > > My winch is bigger than yours blah blah blah
> > >
> > > The Americans do like their big engines and power don't they eh.
> > >
> > > You obviously haven't ever extracted anyone from the mud before
> > > though...
> > >
> > > When one uses a winch, the power comes on easy but build up extremely
> > > fast if the vehicle is really stuck and not moving. In my case that is
> > > 8636 kg with a single block.
> > >
> > > Just at what point am I supposed to guess your 3500 kg tow ball is going
> > > to go ballistic and try to take my head off or preferably your head
> > > off???
> > >
> > > As I stated, only a fool would trust a tow ball for an extraction.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > oh dear, the MSA should be told they are fools at once!!
> >
> > (MSA = Motor Sports Association, the UK governing body of motorsport)
> >
> > Richard
>
> You 'are' kidding right?
>
Nope.
> We must be talking apples and oranges here or something.
>
> Over here in Canada we tend to get stuck in bogs and mud, not just off
> in a grass ditch or something.
>
Ah right, the UK's bone dry! Must remember that............
> I mean, bumpers get bent and torn off even if the pull is anchored only
> to it and not a frame tag.
I don't know about other makes, but a correctly fitted tow hitch on a
front bumper of a Land Rover (i.e. with a spreader plate behind it,
between, or in front of, the dumb irons) is
effectively part of the chassis, and at the rear it *is* part of the
chassis. Applying sufficient force to pull them off would at the very
least severely injure anyone in the vehicle during a snatch, and a winch
, even of massive proportions, would stall.
Perhaps a good illustration of the strength of the front arrangement
was at the ARC Nationals at Bordon a couple of years ago when Colin
Farrels Diso got bogged down to the chassis (on the camping field!!!)
- it took three Liconshire Club triallers, with kinetics, to
snatch him out. No damage was done.
>
> Most of the 4x4's are also pretty heavy vehicles. Even the 'little'
> Jeep TJ Wranglers are about 4000 lb. I don't know what a Land Rover
> weighs in at, but they get stuck in there good sometimes.
>
On average, Land Rovers (excluding Freelander) weigh 2 tonnes - a bit
less for SWB. The exact figure depends on the spec of the particular
vehicle.
> My Jeep CJ7 has to be anchored to use my winch as a pull for really
> stuck vehicles, I way in less than 3000 lb, probably a lot less with the
> fiberglass body.
>
Which demonstates that weight, either high or low, has its pro's and
con's - personaly I think Land Rovers 2 tonnes is a good compromise,
light enough not to sink like a stone, but heavy enough to provide
a good bit of inertia when required, such as snatching, perferably
with a kinetic rope, and to provide a reasonble anchor for winching -
though hitching two together to get a really stuck motor out is the
best solution. It's noticable that practically all Far Eastern 4x4's
weigh in at pretty much the same figure.
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Richard
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