Towing legalities

cooltide · Aug 28, 2016

Turboman said:
those silage bales are over 700kg each.

when I last hauled them i asked the farmer for an estimate if the weight and all he said was, "I wouldn't like one on top of me"

My old records say 3 to a tonne at £78 per tonne (barley) last time I hauled them aug 2012. I had to take the first load to the weighbridge at mole valley feeds to check

Never hauled round bales in bulk and I never want to.
Must have been 2 wide I saw on that trailer but still 12 bales, around 4 tonne payload I reckon

listerdiesel · Aug 28, 2016

That sounds about right for a Contractor Straw bale.

Peter

nobber · Aug 28, 2016

Seffy said:
MAM of trailer must not exceed MAM of tow vehicle, or its rated towing capacity.

Trailers of >750kg MAM must be braked. Overrun brakes max out at 3500kg. Brakes must operate on all road wheels.

Combined MAM of vehicle and trailer must not exceed 3500kg, except where the trailer is <750kg MAM unbraked, in which case the combined MAMs must not exceed 4250kg.

A-frames/tow dollies are not legal under almost all circumstances. They are classed as trailers, with the same MAM as the vehicle being towed, and as such almost always need to be braked, on all wheels. The AA etc get away with this as there is a "to a place of safety" exemption for recovery work.

This means many of those large 4x4s with a large caravan and younger family may well be breaking the law. eg my disco 300tdi could only tow a braked trailer of 780kg unless the driver has +E

On the subject of Sankeys, the military designation has two types, 1/2 ton & 3/4 ton. This would the be permissable design payload for each variant. So the 3/4 (762kg) ton version definitely not allowed without a +E on larger vehicles, the 1/2 ton (509kg) it would depend on the unladen weight, it would have to be less than 241kg unladen. (Being old army, thats old tons, not new 1000kg tonnes. Off to the weighbridge with empty sankeys then everyone

Top man , thanks.

Doo · Aug 30, 2016

I get to haul cabins, usually with a Defender, sometimes with a Mercedes pick up.

The Defender pulls better in my humble, but the Mercedes is comfier.

Anyhoo, I can pull 2 tonnes on the Mercedes because of it's own weight. But if I remove the sides & tail boards, I lighten the vehicle by an astonishing 200+Kg, handy when your cabin weighs in at almost 2.1 tonnes.

However, last time I was pulled I had to go to VOSA weigh centre where they used a pair of electronic scales.

My weights were spot on, even though they were convinced I was over

Anyway, the cops let me into a secret. They go by the axle weights quoted on the sticker either on the door pillar or under the bonnet.

So who's to say you couldn't slightly modify your total capacity by having a new sticker made up?

The Range Rover is barely allowed 3.2 tonnes, but the Defender is allowed 3.5 tonnes. Imagine if someone in the past had stuck a different axle weight sticker on and you didn't know, would the cops know? Possible Angus Nairn, but unlikely your average Joe

Expletive · Sep 2, 2016

Doo said:
The Range Rover is barely allowed 3.2 tonnes

RR can tow 3.5. Always has.

listerdiesel · Sep 2, 2016

We've bought another Ruston & Hornsby engine, so it looks like another trailer is going to be built

VOSA confirmed that if we go for Basic IVA approval, we can use overrun brakes with a turntable drawbar trailer, so we are going to build a similar one to the existing 6-wheeler, just a bit shorter and two axle rather than three.

£2k spent on parts already....

Peter

Dippypud · Sep 2, 2016

Thor1950 said:
that trailer is a goose neck trailer, the hitch point is 3'' in front of the rear axle of the truck, so it also transfers the weight to the front axle for a even weight distribution. that truck is rated for 7000-8000 lbs in the bed. that trailer and load is probably approx 30,000 lbs carried on 4 axles and 12 tyres(truck &Trailer)which all have brakes on them. The trailer would have a electric over hydraulic brake system actuated from the tow vehicle. Step on the truck brakes and the trailer are working also.

Got into a discussion about this type of hitch today and whether they'd be 'allowed' in the UK, (as we haven't seen any) ...
so did a bit more digging into how it works etc ...

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-parts/towing/equipment/hitches/gooseneck-hitches.htm

Doo · Sep 2, 2016

Expletive said:
RR can tow 3.5. Always has.

So why does mine have a total towing weight of 3.160Kg?

On the sticker under the bonnet, it categorically states the above weights divided between both axles!

Unless I am somehow mistaken....

bluedog333 · Sep 2, 2016

Doo said:
So why does mine have a total towing weight of 3.160Kg?

On the sticker under the bonnet, it categorically states the above weights divided between both axles!

Unless I am somehow mistaken....

Well it's hopefully more than 3.160kg! Jockey wheel weighs more than that!
Pretty sure it should be 3500kg, but you've got the plate in front of you.

Expletive · Sep 3, 2016

The owners manual for my 1988 Classic states towing capability of 3500Kg. I'd be massively surprised if the P38 (I'm just guessing from your avatar, correct me if wrong), had worse towing potential than the classic. :S So that plate is a bit baffling.

As far as I'm aware each iteration of the full size Land Rovers (Range Rovers, Discovery's, and Defenders) have all had the 3.5 ton limit.....well....except maybe that short-lived, ill-advised 2 litre petrol Discovery...

listerdiesel · Sep 3, 2016

Doo said:
So why does mine have a total towing weight of 3.160Kg?

On the sticker under the bonnet, it categorically states the above weights divided between both axles!

Unless I am somehow mistaken....

Those are the VEHICLE weights, not the towing weights.

Front Axle 1320 kg (2910 lb)
Rear Axle 1840 kg (4056 lb)
Total 2780 kg (6129 lb)

You cannot have the maximum weight for BOTH axles.

Look for a third weight figure after the axle weights.

Peter

Doo · Sep 3, 2016

listerdiesel said:
Those are the VEHICLE weights, not the towing weights.

Front Axle 1320 kg (2910 lb)
Rear Axle 1840 kg (4056 lb)
Total 2780 kg (6129 lb)

You cannot have the maximum weight for BOTH axles.

Look for a third weight figure after the axle weights.

Peter

I see, I may have mistaken something. But I was also informed by some chap who knows a bit, that the Range Rover was never meant to pull 3.5 tonnes, only 3.2 and that the only one other than the Disco's & Defender's was the Isuzu... I can't recall the whole conversation, but I honestly thought that was the situation.

I'll look at the plate and check later.

Thanks for your time

neilly · Sep 3, 2016

From the P38 owners manual.

Doo · Sep 3, 2016

neilly said:
From the P38 owners manual.

View attachment 106669

MINT

So if Plod pull me I'll show them the manual, sort of throw the book at them

Thor1950 · Sep 3, 2016

Dippypud said:
Got into a discussion about this type of hitch today and whether they'd be 'allowed' in the UK, (as we haven't seen any) ...
so did a bit more digging into how it works etc ...

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-parts/towing/equipment/hitches/gooseneck-hitches.htm

View attachment 106619

so what do you think of the American method? Really it is used in all of North america.

Dippypud · Sep 3, 2016

Thor1950 said:
so what do you think of the American method? Really it is used in all of North america.

Never tried it, but the turning circle must be a thing to get used to, not sure I'd like that amount of weight so close at that height behind me ...

in theory it must work ... but hey it does my head in ..

Thor1950 · Sep 3, 2016

Dippypud said:
Never tried it, but the turning circle must be a thing to get used to, not sure I'd like that amount of weight so close at that height behind me ...

in theory it must work ... but hey it does my head in ..

Really they will turn tighter than a lander rover towing a 20' travel trailer/camper. Maybe this might give you a better idea.

Dippypud · Sep 3, 2016

Thor1950 said:
Really they will turn tighter than a lander rover towing a 20' travel trailer/camper. Maybe this might give you a better idea.

Yeah, that's because the pivot point is half way down the towing vehicle ...

it's the 'push' the load gives that does me ... my mental maths for the inertia is *&%$*

Thor1950 · Sep 3, 2016

Dippypud said:
Yeah, that's because the pivot point is half way down the towing vehicle ...

Yes, and also puts weight on the front axle of the tow vehicle. That is why a pickup can tow 30,000 LBS or more, with a 41,200 gross truck,trailer,load rating

bluedog333 · Sep 3, 2016

Doo said:
I see, I may have mistaken something. But I was also informed by some chap who knows a bit, that the Range Rover was never meant to pull 3.5 tonnes, only 3.2 and that the only one other than the Disco's & Defender's was the Isuzu... I can't recall the whole conversation, but I honestly thought that was the situation.

I'll look at the plate and check later.

Thanks for your time

Evoque can't, neither can hybrids, SVR and SDV6. I think.

Towing legalities

sheep fancier

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Never Knowingly Understood

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Never Knowingly Understood

Well-Known Member

Never Knowingly Understood

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads