SORN RULES.

Jim@sea · Feb 28, 2019

In December 2017 I bought a 1991 Defender which had been in storage on a SORN for 9 years.
The day I bought it I insured it, even though I was not going to use it.
The day after I bought it, it passed an MOT.
I did not notify the DVLA of the change of ownership and it is still on a SORN in the previous owners name.
(so its still 2 owners from new)
I now want to sell it, I am reluctant to Tax it as it puts another owner in the registration book.
But to sell it, should I Tax it (as third owner) or sell it as it is explaining the SORN History
Or can I SORN it in my own name.
Suggestions gratefully received.

Turboman · Feb 28, 2019

Jim@sea said:
In December 2017 I bought a 1991 Defender which had been in storage on a SORN for 9 years.
The day I bought it I insured it, even though I was not going to use it.
The day after I bought it, it passed an MOT.
I did not notify the DVLA of the change of ownership and it is still on a SORN in the previous owners name.
(so its still 2 owners from new)
I now want to sell it, I am reluctant to Tax it as it puts another owner in the registration book.
But to sell it, should I Tax it (as third owner) or sell it as it is explaining the SORN History
Or can I SORN it in my own name.
Suggestions gratefully received.

I doubt if it is still on SORN in the previous owners name, unless they have been registering it SORN every year.
And I think you need to be careful to avoid legal action from DVLA. My understanding is that not to register the transfer of ownership to DVLA is an offence.
I doubt if having another registered owner on the document will effect value, but many buyers will think that not changing the document into your name is dodgy as you like.

jamesmartin · Feb 28, 2019

Turboman said:
I doubt if it is still on SORN in the previous owners name, unless they have been registering it SORN every year.
And I think you need to be careful to avoid legal action from DVLA. My understanding is that not to register the transfer of ownership to DVLA is an offence.
I doubt if having another registered owner on the document will effect value, but many buyers will think that not changing the document into your name is dodgy as you like.

i registered the nuffield project before christmas which was easy enough but a few days later i got letter saying it hadnt been taxed or sorned since 1989 i was liable for the costs, luckily as the duty for an historic tractor is zero they agreed to leave it at that as long as i sorned it straight way, it appears as a new owner you can be liable for a previous owners not soring

marjon · Feb 28, 2019

If the person you brought it off sent in his part of the V5, you might be better and reg in your name then Sorn it straight away. Before they fine you.
I am on the understanding that change of ownership pretty much cancels tax. As it’s related to insurance.

So any new buyer would have to automatically tax it with insurance proof before they could drive it, or put it on SORN and trailer it.

SORN has to be done every year, and change of ownership.

J

Turboman · Feb 28, 2019

marjon said:
If the person you brought it off sent in his part of the V5, you might be better and reg in your name then Sorn it straight away. Before they fine you.
I am on the understanding that change of ownership pretty much cancels tax. As it’s related to insurance.

So any new buyer would have to automatically tax it with insurance proof before they could drive it, or put it on SORN and trailer it.

SORN has to be done every year, and change of ownership.

J

That is what I remember reading from DVLA. Vehicle tax and SORN responsibility are not transferable under any circumstances.

Bobsticle · Feb 28, 2019

I also was under the assumption you have to declare it off the road each year to remain legal.

goonarmy · Feb 28, 2019

Why would you tax it? You can't sell it with tax on.

Turboman · Feb 28, 2019

goonarmy said:
Why would you tax it? You can't sell it with tax on.

Don't think he is supposed to sell it with someone else's name and address on the docs either.

Moron · Feb 28, 2019

You cant have it sorned and insured , they fine you automaticaly , I suspect once someone registers it in thier name the muck will hit the fan

Interceptorxj · Feb 28, 2019

Jim@sea said:
or sell it as it is explaining the SORN History

Exactly this, you can no longer sell cars with tax. When you sell a car now the new owner has to go online and tax it and this automatically cancels the existing owners tax (if you had it) or the SORN. The previous owners SORN was cancelled when he sold it as SORN is not transferable so you will now have to explain to DVLA why you haven't already SORN it and you may be liable to back tax.

Wimblowdriver · Feb 28, 2019

marjon said:
SORN has to be done every year

That is no longer true, once sorned it stays sorned until it changes ownership or the current owner gets it taxed.

Moron said:
You cant have it sorned and insured , they fine you automaticaly

That ain't true either. I have 2 had motorcycles on sorn for many years, both have been insured for the duration and no automatic fines levied. I have a block insurance policy for 4 bikes, one of which has not been taxed since 1993 and is exempt from sorn (unless it changes ownership) as it was taken off the road before the sorn rules came in.

marjon · Feb 28, 2019

You can if you are a dealer(used to be able too)
Depends how previous owner filled in his part of V5

J

marjon · Feb 28, 2019

Moron said:
You cant have it sorned and insured , they fine you automaticaly , I suspect once someone registers it in thier name the muck will hit the fan

Not true.

We used to store a car under SORN but had to be insured under storage agreement.

J

Interceptorxj · Feb 28, 2019

Moron said:
You cant have it sorned and insured , they fine you automaticaly , I suspect once someone registers it in thier name the muck will hit the fan

You can have it insured and SORN , it is the other way round that you can't have it taxed whilst not insured.

Interceptorxj · Feb 28, 2019

and before you ask - you can't back date SORN either.

Turboman · Feb 28, 2019

Interceptorxj said:
and before you ask - you can't back date SORN either.

That is true. But the OP says that the previous owner SORNed the vehicle 9 years ago, so presumably the worst that can happen about that is that DVLA want a bit of back tax for the time since Dec 2017.

For me, the big issue is that OP says he did not change the keeper's document into his name, which is a legal requirement.

And also seems to raise problems with selling the vehicle as is.

If I went to buy a vehicle, the first question I would ask the seller would be how long they had owned the vehicle. To which I would receive the reply, since Dec 2017.

And the second question I would ask would be to look at the keeper's document, which would have a completely different address on it to where the seller lived, and where I was viewing the vehicle.

Which would look as dodgy as could be, and would not result in my buying the vehicle.

300bhp/ton · Feb 28, 2019

Jim@sea said:
I did not notify the DVLA of the change of ownership and it is still on a SORN in the previous owners name.

It is the seller responsibility to notify the DVLA. But you shouldn't have a log book. Why on Earth would you think this is a good idea in the first place???? It's not hard to find out, 10 secs on Google.

I suspect you could be liable for something if the DVLA want to come after you. Or worse case if the previous owner wants to challenge your ownership of the vehicle. While the V5 isn't proof of ownership, trying to mislead people and not inform the DVLA is pretty dumb tbh.

And frankly nobody with more than 3 brain cells will care if it has had 2 or 7 owners considering it's a 28 year old vehicle.

Turboman · Feb 28, 2019

300bhp/ton said:
It is the seller responsibility to notify the DVLA. But you shouldn't have a log book. Why on Earth would you think this is a good idea in the first place???? It's not hard to find out, 10 secs on Google.

I suspect you could be liable for something if the DVLA want to come after you. Or worse case if the previous owner wants to challenge your ownership of the vehicle. While the V5 isn't proof of ownership, trying to mislead people and not inform the DVLA is pretty dumb tbh.

And frankly nobody with more than 3 brain cells will care if it has had 2 or 7 owners considering it's a 28 year old vehicle.

From memory, both the buyer and the seller are supposed to send off different sections of the V5 doc, and it is printed in capital letters that they must do this.

Beneagles · Feb 28, 2019

Stick the reg no into the Gov website and see how they list it at present:
https://www.gov.uk/check-vehicle-tax
Then smile/sweat/die accordingly!

agew · Feb 28, 2019

Moron said:
You cant have it sorned and insured , they fine you automaticaly , I suspect once someone registers it in thier name the muck will hit the fan

Of course you can - why would you not insure against loss/theft just because it’s parked off road/under repair on a SORN?

SORN RULES.

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