P38A Serious damage

Grrrrrr said:

Stratstone Aylesbury was £165 all in about 2 years ago. Mind you, the pound plummeted since then.

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Pound to Euro is about the same today as it was in 2014. So don't see where the plummet came from. If you put the part number into Google you will get various prices from various suppliers, lowest i saw was around £167.00 including VAT. So it pays to shop around.

brianp38dse said:

New keys for a p38 are only available from Huff in Germany through JLR and come ready programed to your car and will just need resyncing so you should not have to get the car to them.

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I added the price of key and reprogramming together for the the post. The key alone £170+ thievery. The rest was for reprogramming.
Theoretically I could just order the key for my reg and re sync myself then?
Is the dealer is just being a scammer saying it needs programming?

Yes they are.

As the guys here have already mentioned, Original P38 fobs are factory programmed with a fixed serial number and dont need/cannot be recoded after that. They are simply synced to the vehicle either using passive syncing (using the fob in the ignition in later model P38's) or by using the drivers door lock sync method.

In your PM you mentioned breaking the "Blue Chip" at the top of the fob. Most people think this is something quite complicated when infact all it is, is a simple 10mH inductor (https://datasheet.octopart.com/NL565050T-103J-PF-TDK-datasheet-41180259.pdf).

Its job is to sense a signal from the coil around the ignition barrel and simulate the pressing of one of the fob buttons. Thats simply how the passive sync method works.

MrSporty said:

Yes they are.

As the guys here have already mentioned, Original P38 fobs are factory programmed with a fixed serial number and dont need/cannot be recoded after that. They are simply synced to the vehicle either using passive syncing (using the fob in the ignition in later model P38's) or by using the drivers door lock sync method.

In your PM you mentioned breaking the "Blue Chip" at the top of the fob. Most people think this is something quite complicated when infact all it is, is a simple 10mH inductor (https://datasheet.octopart.com/NL565050T-103J-PF-TDK-datasheet-41180259.pdf).

Its job is to sense a signal from the coil around the ignition barrel and simulate the pressing of one of the fob buttons. Thats simply how the passive sync method works.

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Big thanks to one and all. Your advice is very much appreciated.

There we are the definitive answer from MrSporty

wammers said:

£167.48 + vat at Rimmer bros that is £200.98. Part number ASR1940.

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Rarely look at rimmers, usually toooo ex

MrSporty said:

Yes they are.

As the guys here have already mentioned, Original P38 fobs are factory programmed with a fixed serial number and dont need/cannot be recoded after that. They are simply synced to the vehicle either using passive syncing (using the fob in the ignition in later model P38's) or by using the drivers door lock sync method.

In your PM you mentioned breaking the "Blue Chip" at the top of the fob. Most people think this is something quite complicated when infact all it is, is a simple 10mH inductor (https://datasheet.octopart.com/NL565050T-103J-PF-TDK-datasheet-41180259.pdf).

Its job is to sense a signal from the coil around the ignition barrel and simulate the pressing of one of the fob buttons. Thats simply how the passive sync method works.

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Can you actually repair FOB's? I have one that lights up but does nothing, someone has been at it before I got the car (which had been abandoned as scrap!) and there is a component missing. I repaired the other FOB which was simply a missing battery contact.

wammers said:

Pound to Euro is about the same today as it was in 2014. So don't see where the plummet came from. If you put the part number into Google you will get various prices from various suppliers, lowest i saw was around £167.00 including VAT. So it pays to shop around.

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Don't really pay much attention to the currency markets but this seems to imply it is currently at its lowest since 2011?

https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=EUR&view=10Y

EDIT: went lower in 2016 and 2017 but that was people playing the market with Brexit I suspect.

S546XOE said:

I added the price of key and reprogramming together for the the post. The key alone £170+ thievery. The rest was for reprogramming.
Theoretically I could just order the key for my reg and re sync myself then?
Is the dealer is just being a scammer saying it needs programming?

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Ah, now I think about it my dealer mentioned a charge for syncing as well. Almost certainly totally unnecessary, although you will have to sync it yourself. Unlock the car. Press lock then turn to lock. Press unlock, turn to unlock. Might take a few goes. If it won't take it then you may need the Nanocom to clear the RF memory or similar and then try again.

Datatek said:

Can you actually repair FOB's? I have one that lights up but does nothing, someone has been at it before I got the car (which had been abandoned as scrap!) and there is a component missing. I repaired the other FOB which was simply a missing battery contact.

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Depends what has gone but I think MrSporty can fix a lot of things. I'm pretty sure he has a gizmo to read the code put out by the key and can work out which key it is too but I am only guessing there.

Datatek said:

Rarely look at rimmers, usually toooo ex

Can you actually repair FOB's? I have one that lights up but does nothing, someone has been at it before I got the car (which had been abandoned as scrap!) and there is a component missing. I repaired the other FOB which was simply a missing battery contact.

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The battery contact coming away from the board is common, just a solder job. But you have to renew the fob body to get at it.

Yes I can repair all the available styles of fob. From what I have seen there are at least 5 different styles of PCB, using different processors (early COP8622 models, mid range Motorola and then the later ST micros.

Of the many I have repaired over the years the most common faults (in no particular order) seem to be :

Positive battery terminal missing or broken. This is the small metal strip towards the top of the pcb. In older fobs its an horrendously weedy little strip with a bit of rubber glued under it to push it up.. rough as arses from factory ! Later models have a more substantial tab.

Positive battery tab in the battery cap is broken or missing.

Negative battery terminal broken or missing. This is the circular one with the 3 tabs. It usually gets pushed around a bit when people remove the batteries.

Push buttons... what doesn't break on these things ! The metal covers pop off and the small "top hat" that actuates the switch falls out. The metal retainer falls out. The solder joints dry or break... or they just fall off the PCB.

On the early COP fobs, the white 4mhz resonator has a nasty habit of up and dropping off the pcb. When you inspect the pads on the underside they just look black and oxidised. You can buff them back, retin and resolder.

The 10 mH inductor (103J "Blue Chip") although not usually a point of failure is very easy to chop off when opening the fob case to perform repairs.

The LED stops working and in quite a few cases it isn't the LED itself, its the pin on the MCU that drives it. Theres no real fix for these even though they still operate ok.

On the last produced fobs (Tons of tiny SMD devices, ST micro) the MCU can have loose pins due to dry solder. You can tell these fobs as the casing is a dark grey rather than black and are a right **** to get into. Reflow the MCU pins sorts out lots of issues with these.

I think that covers most of the common faults that can be easily repaired with simple tools. Anything more puzzling I either do a full solder reflow or a chip transplant if I have a compatible PCB in stock.

It just so happens that I am awaiting some test PCBs :






Hopefully with the intention of being able to fully rebuild faulty fobs no matter what the fault as long as the IC is intact.

MrSporty said:

You can tell these fobs as the casing is a dark grey rather than black and are a right **** to get into.

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That sounds like mine. Came with the car and I cannot get into it for love nor money. I cannot believe the batteries still work as I've had the car 6 years or so now. When they finally fail I will force the f*cker. You might get an email shortly afterwards!

Grrrrrr said:

That's taking the ****. Should be about £165 including the VAT, unless inflation has rocketed in the past 2 years. try a different dealer.

Has @MrSporty had a look at your old key? He might be able to retrieve the key details and reprogram one off the Bay but if can then he's one of the few.

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Agree, when I asked a year or so ago, I was told £180 (I think plus vat) at Park Royal in London.


Oops didn't finish reading the thread

Grrrrrr said:

That sounds like mine. Came with the car and I cannot get into it for love nor money. I cannot believe the batteries still work as I've had the car 6 years or so now. When they finally fail I will force the f*cker. You might get an email shortly afterwards!

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You mean you cannot shift the circular battery cover? Carefully drill 2 small holes at each end of the coin slot, insert the ends of a pair of needle nose pliers, twist and it will come undone.

Datatek said:

You mean you cannot shift the circular battery cover? Carefully drill 2 small holes at each end of the coin slot, insert the ends of a pair of needle nose pliers, twist and it will come undone.

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Yes, that's the plan once the battery has stopped working! Or melt a hot pound coin into the slot.

The P38's battery cover has to be one of the worst parts of its design.

Initially I imagine the factory testing was fine and it rotated easily. Unfortunately they forgot to factor in the time it takes for the little rubber O ring that seals the cover to start becoming sticky and the amount of lint, fluff and general cruft that gets jammed into everything kept in pant pockets. Coupled with a barely deep enough coin recess .. its a recipe for chewed plastic.

I can honestly say the only fobs I see with clean battery cover slots are the ones I send out after repair.

My rediesigned fob pcb uses a battery holder so the fob cover is just that, a simple cover. I might ship them with a specially recessed coin slot to make it much easier to open.

Well after me thinking my key was a write off.
Then there was the the thought of having to buy a new one from JLR£££....
I contacted MrSporty on eBay. Sent my key off. Received it back.
My daughter went to the RR. After a few turns. It fired up.
Thanks again MrSporty. Your help is greatly appreciated.
Have a good weekend all.