P38 Ball joints replacements

Grrrrrr said:

It should do well over 70mph with no issues!

What are the tyres like? Try pumping them up further to something silly like 38 psi all round and see if that helps. OEM steering damper is good: heavy duty shouldn't be required. Is all the alignment good. Brake calipers and discs good?

Click to expand...

Are you having a laugh? Did you read what he said, 70 MPH hitting a pothole on a B road. If you hit a pothole anywhere at 70 MPH you are not going to glide over it like Cinderella in her carriage are you. No matter how taut your suspension is.

wammers said:

Are you having a laugh? Did you read what he said, 70 MPH hitting a pothole on a B road. If you hit a pothole anywhere at 70 MPH you are not going to glide over it like Cinderella in her carriage are you. No matter how taut your suspension is.

Click to expand...

Mine goes clunk over them then back to normal. That's what dampers are for. I thought he was inferring that after hitting a bump the shake kept up for a while?

Now I think about it, someone else had this recently and called it a death-wobble or somesuch. Or maybe I am reading too much into his text.

Grrrrrr said:

Mine goes clunk over them then back to normal. That's what dampers are for. I thought he was inferring that after hitting a bump the shake kept up for a while?

Now I think about it, someone else had this recently and called it a death-wobble or somesuch. Or maybe I am reading too much into his text.

Click to expand...

Maybe people are expecting to much of what after all is said and done is a live axle vehicle. If he is flying up and down B roads at 70 MPH he is a bloody nutter.

wammers said:

Maybe people are expecting to much of what after all is said and done is a live axle vehicle. If he is flying up and down B roads at 70 MPH he is a bloody nutter.

Click to expand...

Well, that is true. The back is a bit skittish compared to fully independent all round. The 4WD makes a difference too, especially when you're used to rear wheel drive.

The car has always performed without these symptoms until now. Wammers, the roads around me are very open and fast, not all the occasions I experience this are on B roads although given the average surface of B roads I do get the problem at lower speeds. The 70mph mark is where it is at its worst. I do take your point about 70 being fast but too fast is a matter of opinion and I guess that is yours. (thanks again for you valid input).

To further elaborate on the problem;


The shake or otherwise accurately described as a "death wobble" is very violent and seems to be induced by either pot holes and drains or lateral load (high speed cornering) This will continue or get worse unless I come of the peddle and drive through it (breaking, excessive steering or further acceleration feels like it will induce instant death!) The shake reduces and the car comes back into balance.

P.S have tried inflating the tyres and swapping backs to fronts etc. As I said though the car is running nothing different to its normal set up since the last four years

Dorset Ranger said:

The car has always performed without these symptoms until now. Wammers, the roads around me are very open and fast, not all the occasions I experience this are on B roads although given the average surface of B roads I do get the problem at lower speeds. The 70mph mark is where it is at its worst. I do take your point about 70 being fast but too fast is a matter of opinion and I guess that is yours. (thanks again for you valid input).

To further elaborate on the problem;


The shake or otherwise accurately described as a "death wobble" is very violent and seems to be induced by either pot holes and drains or lateral load (high speed cornering) This will continue or get worse unless I come of the peddle and drive through it (breaking, excessive steering or further acceleration feels like it will induce instant death!) The shake reduces and the car comes back into balance.

Click to expand...

You have something very loose somewhere. If the steering is shaking i suggest you go through everything and find the problem. Starting at the steering column link and working through the entire system. The national speed limit on B roads is 60 MPH, on many of which it would be suicide to try and achieve. You have a live axle car, with the rear unloaded it is going to move around considerably if shock loaded.

Dorset Ranger said:

The car has always performed without these symptoms until now. Wammers, the roads around me are very open and fast, not all the occasions I experience this are on B roads although given the average surface of B roads I do get the problem at lower speeds. The 70mph mark is where it is at its worst. I do take your point about 70 being fast but too fast is a matter of opinion and I guess that is yours. (thanks again for you valid input).

To further elaborate on the problem;


The shake or otherwise accurately described as a "death wobble" is very violent and seems to be induced by either pot holes and drains or lateral load (high speed cornering) This will continue or get worse unless I come of the peddle and drive through it (breaking, excessive steering or further acceleration feels like it will induce instant death!) The shake reduces and the car comes back into balance.

Click to expand...

Do a search on here for death wobble. I cannot work out how to paste the link on this phone.

I'd put a genuine steering damper on it. Heavy duty not required.

Check all bushes, particularly panhard.

Check drag link.

I don't know about swivel pins but Horse Apple thinks worth a look.

Anything else Wammers? I was trying to think cheapest and easiest first.

Grrrrrr said:

Do a search on here for death wobble. I cannot work out how to paste the link on this phone.

I'd put a genuine steering damper on it. Heavy duty not required.

Check all bushes, particularly panhard.

Check drag link.

I don't know about swivel pins but Horse Apple thinks worth a look.

Anything else Wammers? I was trying to think cheapest and easiest first.

Click to expand...

He's just done the ball joints there are no swivel pins on the P38. Good radius arm and panhard bushes are a must, not the poly crap. Proper ones. Good standard shockers not fancy after market shit. He needs to go through the steering and replace anything that is suspect. Steering box adjustment and centralisation, steering shaft from column to steering box. Go through everything. But not expect a live axle car to do 70 MPH over bumpy roads. Proper TPs would help, also making sure the suspension is set at the correct height. If standard is set to high it is going to bounce around like a bloody ball at high speeds. It doesn't settle down to motorway height over 50 MPH for nothing.

wammers said:

He's just done the ball joints there are no swivel pins on the P38. Good radius arm and panhard bushes are a must, not the poly crap. Proper ones. Good standard shockers not fancy after market shit. He needs to go through the steering and replace anything that is suspect. Steering box adjustment and centralisation, steering shaft from column to steering box. Go through everything. But not expect a live axle car to do 70 MPH over bumpy roads. Proper TPs would help, also making sure the suspension is set at the correct height. If standard is set to high it is going to bounce around like a bloody ball at high speeds. It doesn't settle down to motorway height over 50 MPH for nothing.

Click to expand...

If he's just done the ball-joints, was it doing it BEFORE?!

Grrrrrr said:

If he's just done the ball-joints, was it doing it BEFORE?!

Click to expand...

I doubt that changing the ball joints would have worsened it to be honest. He seems to have done a lot of work. But as said expecting a live axle car specially if the TPs are wrong and suspension is hard to smoothly ride a pot hole at 70 MPH is hoping for to much.

Hey wammers,
I’m sure I’m missing the obvious here but what are the TP's?

The problem started at the same time I had the gearbox and transfer replaced along with replacing the front anti roll D bushes to Polly about two months ago (any thoughts on this being linked to the issue?). Took the car back to the garage and had them check over all front end fittings to make sure there was nothing loose. At the same time, they replaced the panhead bushes, steering bush and ball joints as it was noted that there was some play in the bottom of the ball joints (more so on the left as you would expect). The problem isn’t as easily induced now but is certainly still there. The next thing on my list is to replace the steering damper and have the track rods checked but I am understandably starting to lose heart over the matter! I had the entire car converted to orange Polly two years ago which massively improved the overall handling. I also have Tuffback shocks, 30mm wheel spacers, general grabbers on stock 18" wheels and slotted and grooved disks...all of which have been on the car for over two years presenting no problems (FYI)

wammers, I don’t expect the car to perform miracles but am very familiar with the way it has performed historically. At no point have I suggested that I expect a smooth ride over bumps and potholes but merely advised that the car now goes into a fit rather than riding over these conditions and experiencing the normal sensations of the shocks and bushes doing their job. This can also occur at higher moterway speeds without hitting too much of a bump etc. I am aware that the speed limit is 60 on B roads and have studied the Highway Code as part of obtaining my UK driving licence. I know I did not fully elaborate on the explanation of what speeds I travel on what roads and having read back can understand why you would assume the suggestion of 70 on a B road but to be quite frank, I didn’t expect you to go so off topic and get hung up on that. Please can you try and help me and suggest what else I should be looking at regarding the car and not my driving style!?

Take the bloody stupid wheel spacers off. The wheels have an offset which is designed to put the centre line of the wheel over the axis of the swivel hub. Change that you will have problems. Wish you had mentioned that earlier

Thing is wammers, I have had those on for about three years with no problems. I fitted them as I found them to give far better on road handling while not effecting the usability off road. Surely it’s not these causing the problem? It feels like something is either loose or cracked causing an oscillation effect when disturbed. Hoping the steering damper may be the cause?? By the time I replace that and have the track rods checked, I don’t think there will be much else to check/replace!? I guess that the only place to go after would be the steering down to the rack (if it has one??)

Dorset Ranger said:

Thing is wammers, I have had those on for about three years with no problems. I fitted them as I found them to give far better on road handling while not effecting the usability off road. Surely it’s not these causing the problem? It feels like something is either loose or cracked causing an oscillation effect when disturbed. Hoping the steering damper may be the cause?? By the time I replace that and have the track rods checked, I don’t think there will be much else to check/replace!? I guess that the only place to go after would be the steering down to the rack (if it has one??)

Click to expand...

Ok carry on. You know best. If there is something loose or cracked what would you say caused it? Wheel spacers are used when deeper dish wheels and wider tyres are fitted to move the centre line of the wheel and tyre above the kingpin axis and maintain geometry. NOT to make the track wider with standard wheels.

Ok, so do you think the spacers could have caused or indeed catalysed a problem elsewhere? If so what??! Please don’t get frustrated as I am only trying to give you guys the facts in a realistic time line in a bid to fully inform the people that I have come to for help!

P.S I very much appreciate all of your time so far. Thank you.

Dorset Ranger said:

Ok, so do you think the spacers could have caused or indeed catalysed a problem elsewhere? If so what??! Please don’t get frustrated as I am only trying to give you guys the facts in a realistic time line in a bid to fully inform the people that I have come to for help!

Click to expand...

When the wheels turn their centre line should turn about the ball joint swivel axis. In your case the centre line of the wheel is 30 mm outside the ball joints swivel axis. That puts extra load on everything that couples the wheels together because the wheels are more difficult to turn from the cab but easier to turn if they are struck by hitting a pothole. It will also unevenly load the wheel bearings. If the wheel hits a bump there is more force exerted against steering components because of the longer moment arm the spacers create. It does get frustrating when FULL info is not given in the first place, but added to as the thread goes on, which sometimes totally changes the line of thought. Hope you won't be telling us next it is on coils.

Personally I'd change out the Polly bushes for standard.

Ok, sorry!
I thought I had started the thred based on what the problem was rather than