Is supermarket diesel really cheaper?l

biketeacherdave · Oct 24, 2014

I run a different brand car on svo from the cash and carry in the winter I mix 5% unleaded to stop waxing its gets a squirt of 2 stoke sometimes. 40k miles so far no problems. Kerosene used as road fuel will get you in big trouble with dvsa and the revenue man.

Saltlick · Oct 24, 2014

TSO not formulated to be burned in Fuel?

There are quite a few people arguing the toss on the internet, but all I can say is that the difference in my Tdi is very clear on both Veg and Diesel. My friend with a V8 110 used some for the first time in his knackered, outgoing engine (also a 300Tdi like mine) just before we removed it for the swap.
The noise, fuel consumption and lack of perfomance were shocking.
He put in some TSO after I'd mentioned it to him and it perked it up quite a bit. It's certainly not a cure all, but it sorted the God awful noise and it did at least sound like a normal engine again.

Apparently it was a stuck/sticky valve.

I find that I get more smoke when I haven't added it to diesel and the engine doesn't feel quite so willing.
I don't feel the need to convince you Turboman, I'm just saying I noticed an immediate improvement with no negatives that I can tell.

Saltlick · Oct 24, 2014

Also on the point of oils being formulated for things - Veg oil isn't formulated for fuel use, and Engine oil certainly isn't, but they're both great fuel in a diesel engine

Turboman · Oct 24, 2014

Saltlick said:
TSO not formulated to be burned in Fuel?

There are quite a few people arguing the toss on the internet, but all I can say is that the difference in my Tdi is very clear on both Veg and Diesel. My friend with a V8 110 used some for the first time in his knackered, outgoing engine (also a 300Tdi like mine) just before we removed it for the swap.
The noise, fuel consumption and lack of perfomance were shocking.
He put in some TSO after I'd mentioned it to him and it perked it up quite a bit. It's certainly not a cure all, but it sorted the God awful noise and it did at least sound like a normal engine again.

Apparently it was a stuck/sticky valve.

I find that I get more smoke when I haven't added it to diesel and the engine doesn't feel quite so willing.
I don't feel the need to convince you Turboman, I'm just saying I noticed an immediate improvement with no negatives that I can tell.

Not quite used in fuel in the same way, the lubrication needed in a two stroke is when the fuel is burnt, to lubricate the piston in the cylinder. The oil in diesel fuel is meant to lubricate the fuel injection pump internals with unburnt fuel! Some two stroke oil ie Castrol R, is actually vegetable oil.

I am not trying to convince you either, if yu are happy with results that is fine. But I do suggest you try the fuel additive, some provide a cetane boost as well, and you may notice a similar difference to the two stroke.

Saltlick · Oct 24, 2014

Fair comment - I did use up a few bottles of fuel additives over this year. Millers was very good (Ecoboost/Powershot or something?) but when that ran out I tried 5% TSO and it outperformed the Millers stuff in both fuels. As I say the Veg oil would only allow the engine to rev to about 3300RPM (better with Millers - about 3700RPM IIRC?) and you could instantly tell when the WVO hit the engine from the lack of performance. Now it's so close I can't tell the difference between the two, even though the diesel running is better than it was on plain derv - the WVO running closely matches it.

Turboman · Oct 24, 2014

Saltlick said:
Also on the point of oils being formulated for things - Veg oil isn't formulated for fuel use, and Engine oil certainly isn't, but they're both great fuel in a diesel engine

Diesels can, and have, been run on much stranger things than that!

The older Gardner and Kelvin marine engines used to have great lists of fuels they could be run on. Things like coconut wax or seal fat.

The harder fuels, such as the coconut wax, needed heaters to liquefy them to come out of the tank.

Turboman · Oct 24, 2014

Saltlick said:
Fair comment - I did use up a few bottles of fuel additives over this year. Millers was very good (Ecoboost/Powershot or something?) but when that ran out I tried 5% TSO and it outperformed the Millers stuff in both fuels. As I say the Veg oil would only allow the engine to rev to about 3300RPM (better with Millers - about 3700RPM IIRC?) and you could instantly tell when the WVO hit the engine from the lack of performance. Now it's so close I can't tell the difference between the two, even though the diesel running is better than it was on plain derv - the WVO running closely matches it.

I use Millers, but I have heard others are good too. I would think WVO must have a lot of contaminants in it, which may affect performance in a number of ways.

Saltlick · Oct 24, 2014

Turboman said:
I use Millers, but I have heard others are good too. I would think WVO must have a lot of contaminants in it, which may affect performance in a number of ways.

Yeah, it's different to new Veg oil, that's for sure, but better than just plain new oil (in my experience) after the TSO is added. I've not tried the new oil with TSO yet though.. I'm too cheap to buy it now I've got a good supply of waste oil!!

Mine is settled for at least 6 months though and then filtered to 1 micron, so no solid contaminants, only acids and minimal animal fats in it.

Anyhoo, got to get on with some work now.. I'm getting pleasantly distracted here!

Turboman · Oct 24, 2014

Saltlick said:
Yeah, it's different to new Veg oil, that's for sure, but better than just plain new oil (in my experience) after the TSO is added. I've not tried the new oil with TSO yet though.. I'm too cheap to buy it now I've got a good supply of waste oil!!
Mine is settled for at least 6 months though and then filtered to 1 micron, so no solid contaminants, only acids and minimal animal fats in it.

Anyhoo, got to get on with some work now.. I'm getting pleasantly distracted here!

Animal fats shouldn't be a problem, but I would think lubricity may not be good, and possibly not as high cetane as you might wish. I think you are probably wise to use the two-stroke, or the additives.

Best of luck with the work, pleased I don't have to, but I shall be at it again at first light!

Brown · Oct 24, 2014

Supermarket fuel all the way for me. My TD5 has done 35000 miles in my ownership and has only occasionally had anything else, where I have needed fuel and not been near a supermarket. I've not noticed any improvement on non-supermarket fuel, and if there was any it has been negated by my fuming at having had to pay over the odds for diesel. Running costs typically work out at somewhere between 23-25p per mile depending on the going rate at the supermarket and how hard I drive. With Tesco fuel save clubcard points it's actually getting cheap to run now. Mind you, if I'd wanted genuinely cheap motoring I wouldn't have bought a Land Rover would I? I'd be in a Nissan Micra or something.

Saltlick · Oct 24, 2014

I think the only issue with the animal fats (whites) would be the waxing/solids as they appear at much higher temps than the veg oil waxes. They're pretty much filtered out though, and any that do get through should be under 1 micron in size.

Having said that, Dammit! I should be working!

Saltlick · Oct 24, 2014

Brown said:
... Mind you, if I'd wanted genuinely cheap motoring I wouldn't have bought a Land Rover would I? I'd be in a Nissan Micra or something.

Right, I really should get off here now and do some work, but I will say this - I bought my Disco because I wanted cheap running!

Veg oil was the planned fuel from day 1 for me becuase of the free waste oil, and even with my costs of filtering, more regular engine oil changes and TSO, plus the bit of derv to start and finish the journey, I'm getting an equivelent mileage of over 500mpg!
It makes my old 1.9TD passat look expensive with it's 50-54mpg!

I have another plan in the making, but I'm keeping that to myself

Now, I'm outta here for the night

Datatek · Oct 25, 2014

Supermarket diesel is 10/15% cheaper than Shell Total etc diesel and whilst Total Excellum gives better mpg, it does not improve the mpg by anywhere near 10% so I will continue to use super market diesel.

disco147 · Oct 25, 2014

I used to run my old 300tdi on a very slap dash mix of diesel and veg oil, I would try to keep the diesel mix a bit higher in the winter. I'd also chuck the old engine oil n stuff in there when doing oil changes, smoked a bit and stank but I was never behind it and it ran fine so didnt bother me!

I have to admit though, I dont like running anything other than bp (so I benefit from nectar points) optimum derv in the td5 and I do notice a difference to using cheapo supermarket fuel!

Turboman · Oct 25, 2014

Datatek said:
Supermarket diesel is 10/15% cheaper than Shell Total etc diesel and whilst Total Excellum gives better mpg, it does not improve the mpg by anywhere near 10% so I will continue to use super market diesel.

Never tried the premium diesels, doubt if it would be noticeable in my old 2.5 td, and the additives I use to protect the pump give a cetane boost anyway.

Not sure what goes on upcountry, but round here supermarket fuel is the same price as the local stations. About 127.9 at the moment, better than for years.

I wonder if there is more scope for price cutting in France as less is taken in tax?

cooltide · Oct 26, 2014

My wife's volvo d5 was down 7mpg on a 220 mile run to brom on tesco diesel. Just on dash display I might add. Steadily climbed on shell coming home.

Datatek · Oct 26, 2014

Turboman said:
Never tried the premium diesels, doubt if it would be noticeable in my old 2.5 td, and the additives I use to protect the pump give a cetane boost anyway.

Not sure what goes on upcountry, but round here supermarket fuel is the same price as the local stations. About 127.9 at the moment, better than for years.

I wonder if there is more scope for price cutting in France as less is taken in tax?

Bit less tax on diesel than petrol it's true, but the pump price closely follows the barrel price day by day here unlike the UK where it goes up PDQ but takes ages to drop.

fergusonforestry · Oct 26, 2014

know of a guy who ran his 2.25 petrol! on kerosene! it had twin tanks heated it up on petrol then switched over to kerosene when warm

Turboman · Oct 26, 2014

fergusonforestry said:
know of a guy who ran his 2.25 petrol! on kerosene! it had twin tanks heated it up on petrol then switched over to kerosene when warm

A similar system was often used on tractors years ago. You started off on petrol , and then switched to TVO, tractor vapourising oil. I don't think you get it now, but it was like a paraffin (kerosene)

Turboman · Oct 26, 2014

Datatek said:
closely follows the barrel price day by day here unlike the UK where it goes up PDQ but takes ages to drop.

Yes, I have noticed that too!

Is supermarket diesel really cheaper?l

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