Hard start after night TD5

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Protei said:
Charlesy this happens because now it is easy for fuel system to remove air. But after night due to gravitation fuel comes back to tank alowing air to enter. So you need to purge the system. My oppinion the problem is not only in that valve but also in a one way valve. Gonna chck it today and write what has happened to mine
Click to expand...


OK ... this morning I ran the "stomp the gas pedal 5 times" purging process three of four times and it did start up a lot sooner than yesterday.
Once I get back I am going to have a look at the "one way valve" that they say in in the fuel filter rear inner pipe.

Blooming LandRover!

Come back 200 tdi! All is forgiven!

CharlesY
 
CharlesY said:
OK ... this morning I ran the "stomp the gas pedal 5 times" purging process three of four times and it did start up a lot sooner than yesterday.
Once I get back I am going to have a look at the "one way valve" that they say in in the fuel filter rear inner pipe.

Blooming LandRover!

Come back 200 tdi! All is forgiven!

CharlesY
Click to expand...

I dont think this is the proper purging procedure for Td5 sir. This one might work for engines with throttle cable not with sensor. For Td5 the only purging procedure i think is good is the one described in the workshop manual :

" Purge
1. Turn the ignition switch off and wait 15
seconds.
2. Turn the ignition switch to position II and wait 3
minutes (this ensures that the fuel system
purges all the air from the fuel rail within the
cylinder head).
3. Fully depress the throttle pedal.
4. Keeping the throttle pedal fully depressed,
crank the engine.
5. As soon as engine speed exceeds 600 rev/min,
release the throttle pedal and the ignition
switch.The engine must not be cranked
continuously for more than 30 seconds at
any one time.
6. If the engine fails to start, repeat the above
procedure.

If this procedure is carried out on a vehicle that
has not run out of fuel or otherwise drawn air into
the fuel rail, it can lead to the engine flooding and
failing to start."


The safer thing is to try to start it after the 3 minutes without any throttle first.
 
Quote
I dont think this is the proper purging procedure for Td5 sir. This one might work for engines with throttle cable not with sensor. For Td5 the only purging procedure i think is good is the one described in the workshop manual :
quote



Yes it is!
But it is supposed to be another secret! So for us it is yet another "discovery".

Turn the key ON and listen to the pump running. Leave the key ON all the time now.

When the pump stops, just deck the throttle pedal 5 or six times (to the floor and up) and the pump will start running again. This procedures has some small advantages over turning the key on and off, such as not re-energising the glow-plug circuits, and making all the other electronics turn off and re-start.

It isn't big deal, but it is a good way to get the pump running time after time.

CharlesY
 
I've read about that several times....it's an interesting discussion, we can debate about it(i have some arguments against it).....i'll open a thread about this and i hope we can friendly argue there:)
 
Protei said:
Charlesy any achievments with valve? Cos i will have time only on saturday.
Click to expand...


OK ... I went out in sleet and hail storm, jacked the chassis up a bit, and took off BOTH fuel filter rear connections.

The pipe union nearest me (furthest away from the chassis) contains the AIR BLEED VALVE restrictor and that is clear. I ripped the filter off it a few days ago. This pipe connects to the fuel pump left-most union, from where it turns into the top of the pump, and sprays out into the tank. There is NO PIPE on this in the pump. It just ends up pointing down into the tank from under the very top of the pump. It is interesting that all the parts-list drawings show FOUR pipes in the pump, and that the no.9 air bleed connection pipe DOES have a pipe inside that reaches to the bottom of the pump, thus probably below the level of the fuel. Is it supposed to have that so it doesn't lift air when it is not running?

The pipe union NEAREST the chassis (on mine it has never been off since new) is a big empty union - there is NO VALVE inside it, and also there is NO VALVE in the filter head it connects to. I used a small mirror and lamp and I could see clean into the filter head at least to the middle.
This pipe connects to no.7 on the pump, second from the right, and is the low pressure feed pipe.

This pressures fuel through the filter, and at the same time any AIR rises to the top and should go out the other pipe to the tank union no.9. After the fuel has been through the filter it goes out of the FRONT OUTER pipe, and back to the pump union no. 6, the right-hand one. It goes straight down to the second stage of the pump, pressures up to about 60psi / 4 bar and back out of the pump union 8 (second left) and straight to the fuel pressure regulator on the cylinder head.

Excess and return fuel from the engine comes back to the front inner union, and mixes with the low pressure fuel that has just been filtered.

So where are we now?

It is still a bummer to start, but definitely better if I do the purging cycle a few times.

Ideas?

It still runs perfectly once it fires up.

CharlesY
 
CharlesY said:
.....
The pipe union nearest me (furthest away from the chassis) contains the AIR BLEED VALVE restrictor and that is clear. I ripped the filter off ..........
CharlesY
Click to expand...

..... meaning you don`t have anymore the bleed valve or you cut just the filter part? I ask you because I remove it, and the the car start and run excellent, but I saw that the fuel start to dripped out, therefore I put it back.... and the fuel pump start again to make strange noises...

So what did you do with the air bleed valve?
 
Bogthebat said:
..... meaning you don`t have anymore the bleed valve or you cut just the filter part? I ask you because I remove it, and the the car start and run excellent, but I saw that the fuel start to dripped out, therefore I put it back.... and the fuel pump start again to make strange noises...

So what did you do with the air bleed valve?
Click to expand...

I took it out of the end of the pipe

I cut off the outer end with a sharp knife, and scraped away the layer of filter.

I made sure the hole in the thing was clear, and put it all back.

There is no one-way valve in the other pipe beside it.

Should there be?

CharlesY
 
sierrafery said:
:)just for the scientific side of the thing to understand what's going on...besides u can put sunflower oil in the sump and the engine will work either;)...why argue on this?:D
Click to expand...

whats the problem. it works on all td5's discos and defenders? go try it and stop Effin about! :doh:

i think you have a holed pipe, could be on the return and allow air into the system. common to replace the rear pipes
 
T1G UP said:
whats the problem. it works on all td5's discos and defenders? go try it and stop Effin about! :doh:
Click to expand...

Ok, unfortunatelly my english knowledge is not good enough to make here a complete scientific dissertation.....i know it works, my point is that for a throttle sensor equipped car is unhealty to "pump" it without crancking cos the ECU has specific protocols to corroborate signals ... it has to receive several other inputs together with the throttle inputs as to finalize a good engine management. In this coded sophisticated electronic management protocols any unforeseeable input could cause in time, ulterior collateral damage ...........and so on:blabla:

i just wanted to make sure it's not an issue in this speciffic case(that's my field believe me) ..... any paradoxical behaviour of our cars which we put in "F***in L. R. thing" cathegory might be caused by these kind of unwanted by the system inputs...........or not......in this case i think we'll never know:(
 
Last edited:
Chralesy. have you checked front fittings of fuel filter? i think there might be valve's also.
 
Protei said:
Chralesy. have you checked front fittings of fuel filter? i think there might be valve's also.
Click to expand...


I have not checked those. I may look later today
It was starting perfectly until recently.

I do not know why it is starting badly now.
 
Bogthebat said:
And now it`s better?
Click to expand...
#

No, I don't think I can say that.

Quite obviously air is getting in somewhere as the car sits, like parked.

It's a bummer to start, but if I run the pump a good few times before trying a start, AND deck the throttle, it fires up.

There is no coolant loss or fuel in the coolant, and the oil level isn't rising.

It is still a mystery.
 
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