Gov coming in too early

cornish rattler · Jun 19, 2016

Hi guys
As you may know i have recently replaced my 90 Def 200tdi engine for a Disco 200tdi engine, anyway the engine starts and runs fine but for some reason if i rev the engine from the injection pump linkage the linkage on the pump will only go about 3/4 the way then the Gov'r kicks in, with the engine switched off the linkage on the pump will go all the way to the rev stop and stops on the idle stop at idle and does so when using the pedal, i know the linkage on the injection pump is on a splined shaft but i have never had one off and just wondered if its just a matter of removing the linkage and re-setting it on the shaft and refit.
what do you think

cornish rattler · Jun 21, 2016

I didn't do it in the end as i just wasn't sure if that was the problem but found out later from another sorce that some engine needed a spacer between the lift pump and engine, but as when i replaced the old lift pump ( as a matter of course ) the old pump didn't have a spacer and i never gave it a thought, anyway from when replaced the chassis and damaged the tank - lift pump pipe we bought a BP lift pump kit just for the pipe really to join into and in the kit there was a spacer which i have now found so i will fit it in the week hopefully that should sort it

SpringDon · Jun 21, 2016

I wondered what that spacer was for when I got a new lift pump. Do you know why the lack of spacer brings the governor in early?

cornish rattler · Jun 21, 2016

SpringDon said:
I wondered what that spacer was for when I got a new lift pump. Do you know why the lack of spacer brings the governor in early?

Not sure really the only thing i can think of is it will either over fuel it or under fuel it with or without the spacer fitted, the problem i have is i replaced the lift pump as a matter of course whilst replacing seals and gaskets so i didn't know how the engine ran before hand and there and there was no spacer fitted so i don't know if it had the problem before i bought the engine ( from a breaker )

cornish rattler · Jun 23, 2016

Here are some pic's of the old and new lift pumps aswell as a few pic's of the engine

Flossie · Jun 23, 2016

The lift pump either needs a spacer to work or it doesn't, my disco 200 doesn't have one. Easy to test really, undo bleed screw on the filter and crank , fuel should spurt out.
I had a BP lift pump that was faulty from new, the arm that rests on the cam was all wrong.
I've just checked my engine and the linkage hits the stop with and without the engine running.
I don't know a lot about FIP's but I guess it's possible that a lack of fuel could cause the FIP to engage something(?) To prevent over revving and damage.
I can't see it though....and my 110 runs fine with no lift pump at all.

cornish rattler · Jun 25, 2016

Still no joy just incase i had a faulty new lift pump i re- fitted the old one but still same fault then moved to the micro filter in the banjo bolt on the FIP but realised you can't remove the filter from the bolt so i refitted it and resigned myself to the fact that the FIP is faulty and in need of a overhaul so for now i have adjusted the stop screw on the pedal so that i have full rev's on the pedal but without the governor coming in till i can save up and get it sorted

Kwakerman · Jun 25, 2016

Are you sure the governor isn't just doing its job as it is supposed too. I think it should top out at about 4600 (the 300 does) so its not that fast compared to modern engines. Is it actually restricting performance or do you just think it should rev higher. The governor is in the FIP and is a couple of bob weights that act against a spring, I think it is different spring rates that determine the rpm limit, if your spring has gone weak then the rev limiter will come in earlier.

cornish rattler · Jun 25, 2016

Kwakerman said:
Are you sure the governor isn't just doing its job as it is supposed too. I think it should top out at about 4600 (the 300 does) so its not that fast compared to modern engines. Is it actually restricting performance or do you just think it should rev higher. The governor is in the FIP and is a couple of bob weights that act against a spring, I think it is different spring rates that determine the rpm limit, if your spring has gone weak then the rev limiter will come in earlier.

The latter of what you said sounds right as with the engine switched off the accelerator linkage on the FIP will work properly from the idle to the rev stop but when the engine is running it will operate from idle to about 3/4 the way then the governor comes in so a weak spring could be the problem

markSX · Jun 25, 2016

The governor on a Bosch VE pump can be adjusted (sorry I read it some time ago and have no link for you), maybe it's been backed off to pass the smoke test at MOT time.
Don't be tempted to remove the linkage and re-set it on the shaft, it'll mess everything up, I know, I did it and spent hours trying to get it back to the right place as it wouldn't run properly, if at all.

Kwakerman · Jun 25, 2016

cornish rattler said:
The latter of what you said sounds right as with the engine switched off the accelerator linkage on the FIP will work properly from the idle to the rev stop but when the engine is running it will operate from idle to about 3/4 the way then the governor comes in so a weak spring could be the problem

PM sent.

cornish rattler · Jul 4, 2016

today i had another mess with the throttle linkage on the FIP and had a couple of short runs and its seems to pull well seems quieter, smokes less than the other engine and the steering seems easier but with the way its now set it will max out at just over 40mph which means i can now drive it to the diesel specialist now aswell as keeping local and off Mways for now till i can get it sorted so even with this problem i am quite happy

Kwakerman · Jul 5, 2016

I assume you don't have the FIP from the original engine to try in it?

cornish rattler · Jul 6, 2016

Kwakerman said:
I assume you don't have the FIP from the original engine to try in it?

I do but I don't really want to do that because if i fit it and it cures it the FIP will stay on and the problem one won't get sorted, i was going to get the FIP and injectors done anyway just wasn't expecting to walk into a problem straight away but ha ho

cornish rattler · Jul 12, 2016

Did a tip run in the 90 today with the trailer on and not much weight in it and it didn't do to bad considering, then when I got back and un-hitched the trailer I decided to go for a drive covered 20 miles all in with no prob's and I found once I was in 4'th and 5'th and put my foot down a bit the landy would gradually speed up to 60ish so it does sound like its Retarded slightly

Kwakerman · Jul 12, 2016

cornish rattler said:
I do but I don't really want to do that because if i fit it and it cures it the FIP will stay on and the problem one won't get sorted, i was going to get the FIP and injectors done anyway just wasn't expecting to walk into a problem straight away but ha ho

If you have one FIP that works and one that is suspect (the current one) I would install the original, if that cures it then you have proved the fault is with the FIP. You can then send the duff one you have removed away for a service and swap it over when it returns, that way you will have one you know works and a freshly serviced one (in essence you will have two serviceable pumps), if you send your good pump away then you will end up with one good one and one duff one. I'd rather keep the original (in working condition) as a serviceable spare (and fit the serviced one) as opposed to having the good one serviced and then having a duff one as your spare.

cornish rattler · Aug 10, 2016

Hopefully when I get paid at the end of the month I can get the 90 booked in to have the pump and injectors done, can't wait and in time for going to the Peterborough show in September

cornish rattler · Aug 22, 2016

90 is now booked in to have its pump and injectors done on Wednesday, can't wait once its done

Kwakerman · Aug 22, 2016

cornish rattler said:
90 is now booked in to have its pump and injectors done on Wednesday, can't wait once its done

If it is a fixed price overhaul I'd be tempted to get whichever is the worst of your two pumps done, even if that means swapping them around again (or take the vehicle in for the injectors and give them the other pump to do if it isn't installed). At least the one that has been serviced will (should?) come with some form of warranty and once fitted the other will still be useable as a spare in an emergency.

cornish rattler · Aug 27, 2016

Had a call from them yesterday saying its ready when they stripped the pump and injectors down he said everything was all gummed up and it fly's now but can't pic it up till Tuesday as I was about to go on work just after he rang me and he was closed all weekend so no option but to pic it up on Tuesday but can't wait till then

Gov coming in too early

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