Why aren't Defenders 4x4?!

guineafowl21 · Mar 10, 2015

Been running Defenders for 8 years and 100s of thousands of miles. Love 'em.

Parked at home, on the road, in the workshop, they're 4x4s. Everybody knows that. Everyone calls them 4x4s.

Get stuck in a field, and what do you see? Two f@cking wheels spinning on one side. It's a bloody 4x2, that is!

The only real advantages over a normal car are low range, better ground clearance and one extra wheel spinning in the mud. They should have diff locks or LSDs fitted as standard, especially those without traction control.

4 wheel drive my @rse!

Langers · Mar 10, 2015

guineafowl21 said:
Been running Defenders for 8 years and 100s of thousands of miles. Love 'em.

Parked at home, on the road, in the workshop, they're 4x4s. Everybody knows that. Everyone calls them 4x4s.

Get stuck in a field, and what do you see? Two f@cking wheels spinning on one side. It's a bloody 4x2, that is!

The only real advantages over a normal car are low range, better ground clearance and one extra wheel spinning in the mud. They should have diff locks or LSDs fitted as standard, especially those without traction control.

4 wheel drive my @rse!

Even if you look at it in that (misguided) way, it's still twice as many wheels driven and twice as much traction as with a two wheel drive vehicle. Not sure what you're getting at?

blackstrat · Mar 10, 2015

guineafowl21 said:
Been running Defenders for 8 years and 100s of thousands of miles. Love 'em.

Parked at home, on the road, in the workshop, they're 4x4s. Everybody knows that. Everyone calls them 4x4s.

Get stuck in a field, and what do you see? Two f@cking wheels spinning on one side. It's a bloody 4x2, that is!

The only real advantages over a normal car are low range, better ground clearance and one extra wheel spinning in the mud. They should have diff locks or LSDs fitted as standard, especially those without traction control.

4 wheel drive my @rse!

Is it out of the field now..?

guineafowl21 · Mar 10, 2015

Langers said:
Even if you look at it in that (misguided) way, it's still twice as many wheels driven and twice as much traction as with a two wheel drive vehicle. Not sure what you're getting at?

It's the sort of 'elephant in the room' effect. Everyone talks of them as 4x4s, especially those who don't drive them or ever go off road. It's only those of us who know them, and use them off road for work, who know the truth...

I still maintain that Defenders are the best 4x4s, even though they don't drive all four wheels in sticky situations. They are great, but how frustrating is it to get stuck and see two wheels doing nothing? Open diffs as standard on an off-roader? They could be so much better.

Langers · Mar 10, 2015

guineafowl21 said:
It's the sort of 'elephant in the room' effect. Everyone talks of them as 4x4s, especially those who don't drive them or ever go off road. It's only those of us who know them, and use them off road for work, who know the truth...

I still maintain that Defenders are the best 4x4s, even though they don't drive all four wheels in sticky situations. They are great, but how frustrating is it to get stuck and see two wheels doing nothing? Open diffs as standard on an off-roader? They could be so much better.

I certainly agree R.e. the open diffs. Hence my 130 is fitted with a rear locker and is soon to be fitted with an Ashcroft ATB in the front.

The G-Wagen has got it right though: rear, centre and front differential locks from the factory! :clap2:

guineafowl21 · Mar 10, 2015

blackstrat said:
Is it out of the field now..?

:lol:

No...... this isn't a bitter rant after an engine-revving, clutch-stamping, gearstick yanking, cursing session. It has happened in the past, however. Just a thought I had.

guineafowl21 · Mar 10, 2015

Langers said:
The G-Wagen has got it right though: rear, centre and front differential locks from the factory! :clap2:

Preeeeeeeeeeecisely!

But the G-Wagen looks like a child's drawing of a Defender. What an ugly bar-steward of a thing.

jamesmartin · Mar 10, 2015

guineafowl21 said:
Been running Defenders for 8 years and 100s of thousands of miles. Love 'em.

Parked at home, on the road, in the workshop, they're 4x4s. Everybody knows that. Everyone calls them 4x4s.

Get stuck in a field, and what do you see? Two f@cking wheels spinning on one side. It's a bloody 4x2, that is!

The only real advantages over a normal car are low range, better ground clearance and one extra wheel spinning in the mud. They should have diff locks or LSDs fitted as standard, especially those without traction control.

4 wheel drive my @rse!

they are 4x4 just dont have axle lockers unless you fit them , a car is still 2wd even though the dont have a locker too

guineafowl21 · Mar 10, 2015

jamesmartin said:
they are 4x4 just dont have axle lockers unless you fit them , a car is still 2wd even though the dont have a locker too

Yeeeees, on the road they are (when you don't need it), but it's when you get stuck (and need 4x4) that they turn into 4x2. I'm just arguing that you can't really call them 4x4 unless they come with lockers or some other traction management.

I repeat - I do love the things, and even thinking of swapping my Td5 for a bland Jap vehicle gives me the creeps.

jamesmartin · Mar 10, 2015

guineafowl21 said:
Yeeeees, on the road they are (when you don't need it), but it's when you get stuck (and need 4x4) that they turn into 4x2. I'm just arguing that you can't really call them 4x4 unless they come with lockers or some other traction management.

I repeat - I do love the things, and even thinking of swapping my Td5 for a bland Jap vehicle gives me the creeps.

your not asking for 4x4 ,but lockers or traction management, which you can fit

guineafowl21 · Mar 11, 2015

jamesmartin said:
your not asking for 4x4 ,but lockers or traction management, which you can fit

In a nutshell, I just think supplying an off-roader with two out of three diffs permanently open is a bit odd. Sure, you can modify things, but don't many competitors have lockers as standard?

At the risk of turning this thread into a practical discussion,

1. How much roughly to fit a locker myself?
2. What sort of traction management options are out there? (02 Def 90 Td5, no ABS).

wickford90 · Mar 11, 2015

guineafowl21 said:
In a nutshell, I just think supplying an off-roader with two out of three diffs permanently open is a bit odd. Sure, you can modify things, but don't many competitors have lockers as standard?

At the risk of turning this thread into a practical discussion,

1. How much roughly to fit a locker myself?
2. What sort of traction management options are out there? (02 Def 90 Td5, no ABS).

Heard of Google, try ARB Ashcroft Detroit lockers.

jamesmartin · Mar 11, 2015

traction control is common with lr as with others now , previous some werent 4wd on the road ,detroit or ashcroft locker is a simple fit approx £500

gstuart · Mar 11, 2015

erm erm can I ask a real stupid question, please put objects down

with regards to the difference in awd and 4 wheel drive

when it's diff lock is engaged erm erm does it restrict it going round corners , due to the diff locked ???

yeh I know stupid question and most proberly get put on the rack , lol

potus · Mar 11, 2015

You have a point, always considered my old freelander 1 may be better on slippery grass field than my 90 given it had TC.

guineafowl21 · Mar 11, 2015

gstuart said:
erm erm can I ask a real stupid question, please put objects down

with regards to the difference in awd and 4 wheel drive

when it's diff lock is engaged erm erm does it restrict it going round corners , due to the diff locked ???

yeh I know stupid question and most proberly get put on the rack , lol

Yes, you should disengage centre (and other) diff locks unless on a slippery surface that allows the tyres to slip and relieve 'wind-up' in the transmission.

guineafowl21 · Mar 11, 2015

Well, thanks all. This has been an interesting discussion. Cheers.

jai_landrover · Mar 11, 2015

People are very scared of leaving the centre diff locked when they should. Join a trials club they will teach you with many years experience how to read the terrain and tricks like left foot braking squeezing it without blowing up diffs (especially if you have abs) plus many more tricks. The thing with LR it's had a very good offroad reputation because of its ever so sorted soft suspension. Which is the first thing people mess up when modifying their landy. A trias driver will put open diff vehicles in places you can hardly walk. What is never seen is that wet grass is one of the worst terrains to cross. Tyre choice again is massive road tyrea simply won't cut it. If you have got stuck and two wheels spinning quite simply the driver cocked it up by not driving appropriately or not reading the terrain.

Lockers are £500 yes but that no good it's £1200 for the front as and about £1k rear you wi need uprated shafts or risk the kenetic energy of a broken shaft transferring through your shiny diff quite often turning the insides to shattered shards. A std landy shaft can twist an entire 360degrees before letting go.

guineafowl21 · Mar 11, 2015

jai_landrover said:
What is never seen is that wet grass is one of the worst terrains to cross. Tyre choice again is massive road tyrea simply won't cut it. If you have got stuck and two wheels spinning quite simply the driver cocked it up by not driving appropriately or not reading the terrain.
.

Er, yup. That's where I first got stuck in a Tdi 90. Level, wet grass, with two wheels spinning on one side. Stupid thing is, I'd driven onto the grass OK to see a horse, then got in to go and went nowhere. I got going by rocking it.

As I remember it, the horse owner, watching my efforts, asked me, 'is it broken?' Many thoughts went through my head at the time, not one one of them was 'the best 4x4xfar'.

guineafowl21 · Mar 11, 2015

While we're on the subject, do you prefer big quad-bikey tyres like BFG MTs, or narrower ones like the Michelin XZLs I have? Many times they've taken me purring past slipping, crappy HiLuxes, in 2nd Low with the antistall chugging me along.

Why aren't Defenders 4x4?!

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