JimS
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I think you've nailed it, 'Design Cues' are all that's left of the original vehicle, it has become full-on urbanista orientated.
Driven: New Defender - On & Off Road. Is it a Pretender?
- Thread starter 300bhp/ton
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I think you've nailed it, 'Design Cues' are all that's left of the original vehicle, it has become full-on urbanista orientated.
That is the problem. It is a defender in the same way the new mini is a mini, or the new beetle is a beetle. Aesthetically it has been designed by someone who has heard roughly what one looked like from someone else who only got a brief glimpse of the original. There are styling cues but it is not the same long lived look that we all know and love. It is no longer a defender just like the bmw mini is no longer a mini. The name is just being used as a marketing ploy and the new vehicle has none of linage of the original vehicle. From the first series 1 to the final "proper" defender off the line you could see the lineage, flat front sides and back, ali skinned paneled body, ladder chassis, beam axles. The new vehicle is a complete re-design and does not share any of the features of its predecessors in terms of fundamental design, because of this in my opinion it should have been renamed. This would also stop it being compared to the old models. however the name is to powerful a marketing tool for them to have retired it.
It is a defender in name only and as mentioned is the same for as the beetle (if it is not air cooled rear engine it is not a beetle!) and mini. For all practical purposes it is not a defender, it cannot be treated as one, and does not have any of the features the old enthusiast loved in the previous defender. However it is not aimed at us, it is aimed and built for the school run mum/dad who wants an suv, not the enthusiast who has rebuilt a 30 year old vehicle to drive though the dessert and repair with only adjustable spanner and a rock!
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JimS
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Yes they are in the business of selling cars and tough looking SUV's are popular. It's not just JLR, the amorphous blobs of SUV are popping up everywhere where you least expect it- Bentley, Jaguar, Maserati, Alfa, Aston... even Ferrari are developing one FFS.. all of which for the sake of a grill and badge you would struggle to separate.
You could argue that while the Mini and Beetle are quite different to their predecessors they still retain the same functional intent, the new LR is just 'identifying' as a Defender.....
Whereas that is true arguably the original functional intent of the defenders no longer exists anywhere and is no longer required, it depends what you consider to be the defenders functional intent.
- 4x4 utility vehicle - these are now double cab pickups which the original defender never meaningfully was
- military vehicle - now fulfilled by specialist military vehicle providing the required armour and armoument for modern warfare
- ability to strip, repair, rebuild by any semi competent person - no modern vehicle fits these criteria and the age of the home mechanic is dying out
- modular design which can easily be converted to several variant and body types - now fulfilled by specialist vehicles for each role rather than one size fits all with a changeable configuration
- off road capability - the modern version by all accounts fits this with no problems. It is a different style of off road driving (one I do not like or agree with) but the current discovery is a formidable off road machine all be it reliant on technologies rather than driver skill and awareness, I do not see the new defender being any different. The only part of this it does not fulfill is the easy of modification to increase off road performance (at the expense of other traits) like the old one, but it will not be long until there will be suspension lifts and protective kit available for it just as there is for other modern 4x4's they will just not be as many of them and they will not be as cheap as they were for the old defender but the whole vehicle is not as cheap as the old defender.
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JimS
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It does raise the point as to why still call a vehicle a Defender when no longer used by the armed forces.
I think the longevity will be interesting, JLR have obviously put it through some punishing tests but when you take the 'bush mechanic' out of the equation it has to be a lot more dependable, and JLR of late do not have a good record on reliability.
I don't see that anyone will be buying this that even goes off tarmac that often, it is just another variation on a theme targeting premium money from the right (well off) buyers... would be interesting to see if they can produce a decent pick up version though that can compete with Toyota head-to-head
Not at a price point to compete with the toyota/ford etc. If they did it would be in the Amerok or X-Klasse category neither of which I believe even have low range and again arguably are aimed at the school run SUV rather than people who actually want/need a 4x4 utility/adventure vehicle.
JimS
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The most annoying aspect of the new Defender is that not only have they avoided the obvious naming protocol of calling it 'Defender 2' but just to really screw up internet searches they've called the 119" wheelbase version 'Defender 110'.
It's like they are deliberately trying to be dicks....
300bhp/ton
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fredi250
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The only thing I disagree with is the description of the gearbox performance .
Mine was flawless I never ever expireanced the delayed response cited , in fact if I had it would have Been back at the dealers pronto.
Mine was flawless I never ever expireanced the delayed response cited , in fact if I had it would have Been back at the dealers pronto.
tottot
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It's a thread revival, Very few Defender/Pretender around hear. Most farmers now have crew cab pickups of various makes.
lnteresting thread. l imagine few of those who have commented have actually driven the new Defender.
l've now had mine for two years, it's the basic model with steel wheels and coil springs. Fortunately land Rover binned the 2.0 litre engine fairly soon after Defender production started and now it comes most commonly with a 3.0 six cylinder. The transmission is almost perfect in operation although would l still prefer a manual.
This engine is an absolute honey. Mine is 250bhp with 600Nm torque at under 1,500rpm.
l've had no trouble with it at all, it's the Commercial version. l think it has more character with the coil springs.
What it does lack, is the legacy of the old model. ln the old model, every trip is an adventure, even though it's only to a caravan site in Derbyshire you arrive feeling like you've achieved something.
Land Rover were never going to hold on to this aspect of the old Defender with the new model.
At least it resulted in the lneos Grenadier, so we have a choice.
l've now had mine for two years, it's the basic model with steel wheels and coil springs. Fortunately land Rover binned the 2.0 litre engine fairly soon after Defender production started and now it comes most commonly with a 3.0 six cylinder. The transmission is almost perfect in operation although would l still prefer a manual.
This engine is an absolute honey. Mine is 250bhp with 600Nm torque at under 1,500rpm.
l've had no trouble with it at all, it's the Commercial version. l think it has more character with the coil springs.
What it does lack, is the legacy of the old model. ln the old model, every trip is an adventure, even though it's only to a caravan site in Derbyshire you arrive feeling like you've achieved something.
Land Rover were never going to hold on to this aspect of the old Defender with the new model.
At least it resulted in the lneos Grenadier, so we have a choice.
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fredi250
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I bought myself the 3litre ingenium straight 6 version last year and ditched it after 6 months of gearbox supercharger electric problems and a new turbo . Must say when it was running it was fun .
I bought it as a boys toy
The wife could not get on with it preferring her Velar .
I Replaced it with a 2.5 Nissan Navara that has proved to be a lovely Truck .
I bought it as a boys toy
The wife could not get on with it preferring her Velar .
I Replaced it with a 2.5 Nissan Navara that has proved to be a lovely Truck .
Depends what generation, I thought they liked to split in half where the water runs down between the cab and the bed and rusts the chassis away at that point
Loafer61
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Navara here fell apart (auto box lost 1st and 2nd), trim fell off, tail gate fell off, eventually it warped it’s head and block badly enough to be scrapped.
Hilux is doing fine at the moment however much of this could be down to the Navara was driven by 6-8 different people, and only I drive the Hilux.
PS. On the subject of the thread, def a pretender. I am, of course, delighted to be lent one to test it properly here in Kenya!
Hilux is doing fine at the moment however much of this could be down to the Navara was driven by 6-8 different people, and only I drive the Hilux.
PS. On the subject of the thread, def a pretender. I am, of course, delighted to be lent one to test it properly here in Kenya!
Had my D300 110 Defender for 20 months from new and no issues regarding reliability and it’s a great vehicle on and off road,
However off road you soon realise what big cars they are, for example, Stile end in the Lake District, getting through the gate is mighty tight and the tight turn towards the top the front bumper is touching the rock face and bottom trim of rear left door is against boulder to be used as a pivot. lol.
It was never an issue in my old 90 or 110.
I came away from that laning trip with quite a few scrapes.
However off road you soon realise what big cars they are, for example, Stile end in the Lake District, getting through the gate is mighty tight and the tight turn towards the top the front bumper is touching the rock face and bottom trim of rear left door is against boulder to be used as a pivot. lol.
It was never an issue in my old 90 or 110.
I came away from that laning trip with quite a few scrapes.
"On the subject of the thread, def a pretender. I am, of course, delighted to be lent one to test it properly here in Kenya!"
lf l was going to Kenya l would definitely take an old model Defender, they just seem to belong there.
The new one will l am sure be fabulous (l've got one remember) but in the old one you're part of the surroundings whereas in the new one you're isolated in air conditioned luxury.
Would still be interested to hear your opinions driving a new Defender in Kenya.
lf l was going to Kenya l would definitely take an old model Defender, they just seem to belong there.
The new one will l am sure be fabulous (l've got one remember) but in the old one you're part of the surroundings whereas in the new one you're isolated in air conditioned luxury.
Would still be interested to hear your opinions driving a new Defender in Kenya.
Loafer61
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As soon as someone lends me one lightning! Until then, the Discovery will have to do.
