What are peoples views on Diesel Suzuki Grand Vitara 5 door?

Clanger ([email protected]) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :

>> Neil/OP - you are aware that 4wd makes no difference at all to
>> emergency braking, aren't you? Which - unless you're driving like a
>> complete muppet - is the only time you are likely to get near losing
>> grip. Please - don't ever believe marketing people. They lie. You know
>> this.

> Adrian, Just out of interest, which or what model Suzuki(s) have you
> owned

None. But I do keep meaning to do my bike licence and possibly get an SV.

Sorry - how's that relevant to the point I made?

4wd does NOT assist in any way in braking. "Soft-roaders" like the GV are by
their very nature compromises between on-road ability and off-road ability -
and we all know how good they aren't off-road.

As I said - if you're getting near the limits of the grip you have
available, in "crappy weather", then you are driving like a complete muppet.

"Adrian" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Clanger ([email protected]) gurgled happily, sounding much
>
> 4wd does NOT assist in any way in braking. "Soft-roaders" like the GV are
by
> their very nature compromises between on-road ability and off-road
ability -
> and we all know how good they aren't off-road.

So what is your opinion of how they are on-road? This is what the majority
of use will be. Is it better than a freelander or worse for instance?

> As I said - if you're getting near the limits of the grip you have
> available, in "crappy weather", then you are driving like a complete
muppet.

I totally agree. I am more concerned about the better visibility in a 4x4.

Cheers

Neil

My views on the Vitara diesel or any other diesel 4wd. is that it's a
shame they are not available here in the US.We have much fewer choices
than the rest of the world.I also wish real 4wds.were offered here
instead of or at least along side of these soccer mom mobiles that pass
for 4x4's.
Steve

In article <[email protected]>, Steve wrote:
> My views on the Vitara diesel or any other diesel 4wd. is that it's a
> shame they are not available here in the US.We have much fewer choices
> than the rest of the world.I also wish real 4wds.were offered here
> instead of or at least along side of these soccer mom mobiles that pass
> for 4x4's.
> Steve
>

You get the Discovery over there don't you? That's considered a proper
4x4 by many. They don't do anything for me though.

--
simon at sbarr dot demon dot co dot uk
Simon Barr.
1.7i Lada Niva Cossack, going, going...
110 300Tdi coming soon.

> So what is your opinion of how they are on-road? This is what the
> majority of use will be. Is it better than a freelander or worse for
> instance?

The Freelander's more car-like in every respect. Although someone
on this thread called the GV a soft-roader, it's mechanically closer to
a traditional off-roader than a soft-roader. E.g. it has a frame
chassis, a low ratio box, a live rear axle, reasonable articulation, and
fairly hefty suspension and drivetrain components in comparison
with soft-roaders.

Are you aware that the GV's 4wd system is part-time, so on the road
you must use rear wheel drive (unless it's snowy/icy?)

(Both of them are short of ground clearance for proper off-roading,
but the GV's low ratio gearbox makes it the more natural choice
of the two.).

-- Steve

"Adrian" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Clanger ([email protected]) gurgled happily, sounding much
> like they were saying :
>
> >> Neil/OP - you are aware that 4wd makes no difference at all to
> >> emergency braking, aren't you? Which - unless you're driving like a
> >> complete muppet - is the only time you are likely to get near losing
> >> grip. Please - don't ever believe marketing people. They lie. You know
> >> this.
>
> > Adrian, Just out of interest, which or what model Suzuki(s) have you
> > owned
>
> None. But I do keep meaning to do my bike licence and possibly get an SV.
>
> Sorry - how's that relevant to the point I made?
>
> 4wd does NOT assist in any way in braking. "Soft-roaders" like the GV are
by
> their very nature compromises between on-road ability and off-road
ability -
> and we all know how good they aren't off-road.
>
> As I said - if you're getting near the limits of the grip you have
> available, in "crappy weather", then you are driving like a complete
muppet.

because we now know you know nothing about Suzuki vehicles and their on or
off road ability.

Clanger ([email protected]) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :

>> > Adrian, Just out of interest, which or what model Suzuki(s) have you
>> > owned

>> Sorry - how's that relevant to the point I made?

> because we now know you know nothing about Suzuki vehicles and their on
> or off road ability.

Where have I specifically referred to the qualities of Suzuki vehicles,
other than by giving a quote from Suzuki's website?

My point was to challenge the OPs assumption that a 4x4 inherently makes a
"safer" vehicle. I don't buy that argument at all.

I'm a firm believer that primary safety is better than secondary safety. I'd
rather not be in an accident in the first place. I don't believe that
something like a GV is a great recipe for that.

Even a road-biased "soft-roader" 4x4 is a compromised design. When it's not
even permanent 4x4, the design is even more of a trade-off. What you've got
with a GV - and it's not alone in this - is an excessively heavy rwd car
with soft long-travel suspension, a high centre-of-gravity, and a ladder
chassis. Mmm. High-tech? I think not.

If the OP says that safety is a higher priority for him than off-road
ability, then I don't think a GV or it's ilk is the right vehicle for him.

Let's go back a step or two - My understanding is that his requirements are
for a safe vehicle to carry five people plus an amount of luggage, which may
or may not require a trailer, and that the nearest he's going to come to
requiring off-road ability is to traverse camp sites - and that he's
currently managing all this with an aging Escort estate.

I would suggest that he rethinks his criteria, and looks at a people carrier
or conventional estate car. The people carrier will provide the higher
viewpoint he quotes as a requirement, the conventional estate will provide
the more secure drive he quotes. Either will provide better packaging than a
4x4.

I think the suggestion of a Subaru made elsewhere in the thread would be an
excellent one. A Forester will fit his garage on length, give a higher
driving position than a normal car, and provide permanent 4x4 - as well as
nearly 400 litres of boot space with rear seat up compared to the Suzuki's
"limited" boot. OK, so the Subaru's not available as a diesel, but the fact
that it weighs over 400kg less (1800kg vs 1375kg) than the GV means it's
probably not a lot thirstier in the real world. Subaru quote 33.2mpg
combined, 42.2mph extra-urban against Suzuki's quoted 47.1/38.7 - and we've
got testament further up this thread that the GV has a drink problem when
loaded - the diesel GV has very little more torque (199Nm/184Nm) than the
Forester, for a lot more weight - which would certainly tally with that.

"Adrian" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Clanger ([email protected]) gurgled happily, sounding much
> like they were saying :

>
> 4wd does NOT assist in any way in braking. "Soft-roaders" like the GV are
by
> their very nature compromises between on-road ability and off-road
ability -
> and we all know how good they aren't off-road.
>

Since when has the GV been a "Soft-roader"??

The GV might not be the ultimate off-roader (any more than a mondeo or 3
series is the ultimare road-car) but it is a capable and genuine off-roader
all the same.

Low ratio, propper separate ladder chassis and other abilities are NOT
features found on "soft-roaders", but on all Suzuki off roaders (Jimny, GV
in 3 door, 5door and lwb XL7 variants)

The GV more biassed to off road use than the likes of the freelander and a
load of others of similar size. That means it has a more firm and restless
ride on-road but still has perfectly safe handling.

PR ([email protected]) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying :

>> 4wd does NOT assist in any way in braking. "Soft-roaders" like the GV
>> are by their very nature compromises between on-road ability and
>> off-road ability - and we all know how good they aren't off-road.

> Since when has the GV been a "Soft-roader"??
>
> The GV might not be the ultimate off-roader (any more than a mondeo or
> 3 series is the ultimare road-car) but it is a capable and genuine
> off-roader all the same.
>
> The GV more biassed to off road use than the likes of the freelander
> and a load of others of similar size. That means it has a more firm
> and restless ride on-road but still has perfectly safe handling.

I stand corrected - as I've already stated, I'm not an expert on Suzukis.
Given that, I'd suspect it's even less appropriate for the OP's stated uses
and preferences.

I know that the general consensus around here on the (non-Grand) Vitara is
that it's a far less capable off-road machine than the under-rated SJ, and
assumed that the GV was even more road-biased. Seems like I'm guilty of
believing the marketing as well.

"Adrian" <[email protected]> wrote

> I would suggest that he rethinks his criteria, and looks at a people
carrier
> or conventional estate car. The people carrier will provide the higher
> viewpoint he quotes as a requirement, the conventional estate will provide
> the more secure drive he quotes. Either will provide better packaging than
a
> 4x4.
>
I did think of the Mitsi Spacegear 4x4 van as a suggestion for a while, but
while smaller than the Trooper I suggested before, if still probably
wouldn't have fitted in the small garage he says he has. The spacegear is
also permanent 4x4 with a true centre diff.

rhys

Yes,we get the Discovery here.Even though it's a very capable off roader
it's got all the luxury items on it,no diesel, and it's expensive.I
personally like 4x4's the more basic workhorses that they were intended
to be.

In article <[email protected]>, Steve wrote:
> Yes,we get the Discovery here.Even though it's a very capable off roader
> it's got all the luxury items on it,no diesel, and it's expensive.I
> personally like 4x4's the more basic workhorses that they were intended
> to be.
>

How come you don't get the diesels then, is it an emissions thing?

--
simon at sbarr dot demon dot co dot uk
Simon Barr.
1.7i Lada Niva Cossack, going, going...
110 300Tdi coming soon.

On 14 Nov 2003 14:39:49 GMT, Simon Barr <[email protected]> wrote:

->In article <[email protected]>, Steve
wrote:
->> Yes,we get the Discovery here.Even though it's a very capable off roader
->> it's got all the luxury items on it,no diesel, and it's expensive.I
->> personally like 4x4's the more basic workhorses that they were intended
->> to be.
->>
->
->How come you don't get the diesels then, is it an emissions thing?

With petrol at tuppance a gallon would you not run a V8 ?


--
Geoff
www.anoraks.uk.net

In article <[email protected]>, Geoff wrote:
> On 14 Nov 2003 14:39:49 GMT, Simon Barr <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> ->In article <[email protected]>, Steve
> wrote:
> ->> Yes,we get the Discovery here.Even though it's a very capable off roader
> ->> it's got all the luxury items on it,no diesel, and it's expensive.I
> ->> personally like 4x4's the more basic workhorses that they were intended
> ->> to be.
> ->>
> ->
> ->How come you don't get the diesels then, is it an emissions thing?
>
> With petrol at tuppance a gallon would you not run a V8 ?
>

Yes please, most definitely!! I considered getting a V8 110 and converting
it to LPG, the sound they make is sublime. Lots of members in my local
Glass meet reckon they die at the first sign of water though, so I've bought
a 300Tdi instead.


--
simon at sbarr dot demon dot co dot uk
Simon Barr.
1.7i Lada Niva Cossack, going, going...
110 300Tdi coming soon.

Neil <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hi all, I am in the market for a 4x4 and was looking at the Suzuki Grand
> Vitara 5 door diesel. Has anyone got any views on this vehicle?

According the "Top Gear" survey of vehicles, the Grand Vitara is judged
by its owners to be an unreliable badly built piece of **** and very
fewof them woudl recommend anyone else to purchase one. It seemed more
significant that few owners will be considering buying another one.

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Simon Barr ([email protected]) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying :

>> ->> Yes,we get the Discovery here.
>> ->> no diesel,

>> ->How come you don't get the diesels then, is it an emissions thing?

>> With petrol at tuppance a gallon would you not run a V8 ?

> Yes please, most definitely!!

'zackly. Petrol is around a pound per gallon in most places across the US.
Hence, no diseasels or LPG.

OK, so 'merkin gallons are "only" 3.8 litres, but...

On 14 Nov 2003 15:22:54 GMT, Simon Barr <[email protected]> wrote:

->> ->How come you don't get the diesels then, is it an emissions thing?
->>
->> With petrol at tuppance a gallon would you not run a V8 ?
->>
->
->Yes please, most definitely!! I considered getting a V8 110 and converting
->it to LPG, the sound they make is sublime. Lots of members in my local
->Glass meet reckon they die at the first sign of water though, so I've bought
->a 300Tdi instead.

The V8 can be made very water proof, it's just a case of taking the time to do
it properly.

--
Geoff
www.anoraks.uk.net

> According the "Top Gear" survey of vehicles, the Grand Vitara is judged
> by its owners to be an unreliable badly built piece of **** and very
> fewof them woudl recommend anyone else to purchase one. It seemed more
> significant that few owners will be considering buying another one.

Link ??

Neil

Neil <[email protected]> wrote:

> > According the "Top Gear" survey of vehicles, the Grand Vitara is judged
> > by its owners to be an unreliable badly built piece of **** and very
> > fewof them woudl recommend anyone else to purchase one. It seemed more
> > significant that few owners will be considering buying another one.
>
> Link ??

Newsagent.

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"Steve Firth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:1g4f543.h03qc71609mf1N%%steve%@malloc.co.uk...
> Neil <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Hi all, I am in the market for a 4x4 and was looking at the Suzuki Grand
> > Vitara 5 door diesel. Has anyone got any views on this vehicle?
>
> According the "Top Gear" survey of vehicles, the Grand Vitara is judged
> by its owners to be an unreliable badly built piece of **** and very
> fewof them woudl recommend anyone else to purchase one. It seemed more
> significant that few owners will be considering buying another one.
>
> --
> Having problems understanding usenet? Or do you simply need help but
> are getting unhelpful answers? Subscribe to: uk.net.beginners for
> friendly advice in a flame-free environment.

Steve, there's only one thing full of ****e and that's UhhhU

another NON Suzuki owner passing on duff information.

clanger