Variable brake pedal feel

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Thanks Brown and trax.

I've been out fault finding today-

There is definitely no bearing play in the front or rear wheels. I'm certain of this. I had it jacked up on stands and used a pry bar under the wheels. No issues or play at all. Even rocked the wheels on the ground.

I also checked lock to to lock and all brake pipes and flexis on the front end. No issues at all, looked perfect.
With the wheels off, I have noticed that the front pads are rocking in the calipers, quite considerably. I'm wondering if this could be knocking the pistons back in some way?

After checking everything over I then took it out on the road and found an empty car park to try and find the fault while looking like a right nutter.....

Here goes...

I drove in a constant circle on full lock either way.

when driving forward in said circle, the first press of the pedal increases (soft). The second press while continuing forward is better!
Then when reversing in the same circle the first press the travel increases, and the second press is better. It seems to be the transition between forward and reversing that's causing the problem which only occurs when turning.

Any ideas fellas? Could it be those pads rocking?
 
ONE LIFE LIVE IT. D90 said:
Thanks Brown and trax.

I've been out fault finding today-

There is definitely no bearing play in the front or rear wheels. I'm certain of this. I had it jacked up on stands and used a pry bar under the wheels. No issues or play at all. Even rocked the wheels on the ground.

I also checked lock to to lock and all brake pipes and flexis on the front end. No issues at all, looked perfect.
With the wheels off, I have noticed that the front pads are rocking in the calipers, quite considerably. I'm wondering if this could be knocking the pistons back in some way?

After checking everything over I then took it out on the road and found an empty car park to try and find the fault while looking like a right nutter.....

Here goes...

I drove in a constant circle on full lock either way.

when driving forward in said circle, the first press of the pedal increases (soft). The second press while continuing forward is better!
Then when reversing in the same circle the first press the travel increases, and the second press is better. It seems to be the transition between forward and reversing that's causing the problem which only occurs when turning.

Any ideas fellas? Could it be those pads rocking?
Click to expand...

i'd generally wouldn't have thought so as they'd need some force to push the pistons in... but you seemed to have ruled the obvious out. how many mm do they rock?

as above, i'd swap the rubber hoses back on, then clamp each side until the issue goes away, then either refurb or buy a new caliper.

can you make this happen at slow speeds as well?

you could try taking that caliper off, sticking a block of wood in to wedge the pistons right back and tie the caliper up somewhere. see if it still happens.

obv drive slowly and not on public roads :)
 
trax said:
i'd generally wouldn't have thought so as they'd need some force to push the pistons in... but you seemed to have ruled the obvious out. how many mm do they rock?

as above, i'd swap the rubber hoses back on, then clamp each side until the issue goes away, then either refurb or buy a new caliper.

can you make this happen at slow speeds as well?

you could try taking that caliper off, sticking a block of wood in to wedge the pistons right back and tie the caliper up somewhere. see if it still happens.

obv drive slowly and not on public roads :)
Click to expand...
Thanks Trax.

They rock a fair bit in the caliper, possibly 3 to 4mm. This is with new Ap calipers and pads fitted at the same time.

I've thrown away my old flexis, and don't fancy buying some more just to check that. I spose I could lift them off and use a block as you said.

It deffo can't be wheel bearings now. There is no play at all up front.....

I can't see why turning has an effect though. And it doesn't happen forward then reverse when driving in a straight line.
 
ONE LIFE LIVE IT. D90 said:
Thanks Trax.

They rock a fair bit in the caliper, possibly 3 to 4mm. This is with new Ap calipers and pads fitted at the same time.

I've thrown away my old flexis, and don't fancy buying some more just to check that. I spose I could lift them off and use a block as you said.

It deffo can't be wheel bearings now. There is no play at all up front.....

I can't see why turning has an effect though. And it doesn't happen forward then reverse when driving in a straight line.
Click to expand...

with the wheel off, see if you can push the pads in by hand. should indicate if the rocking is the possible cause.
 
trax said:
with the wheel off, see if you can push the pads in by hand. should indicate if the rocking is the possible cause.
Click to expand...
Just tried that as you said mate. I couldn't really push the pistons back. So maybe it's not that. There's nothing left though 😠.

Do you think it's worth trying a different brand of brake pad with different retainers? Possibly ferodo? ... There are leading and trailing chamfers on the front pads though.

I even tried a long tough screw driver in the vents of the disc (bad I know) to try and see if I could get any leverage to create movement. But nothing! All calipers torqued up correctly too.
 
ONE LIFE LIVE IT. D90 said:
Just tried that as you said mate. I couldn't really push the pistons back. So maybe it's not that. There's nothing left though 😠.

Do you think it's worth trying a different brand of brake pad with different retainers? Possibly ferodo? ... There are leading and trailing chamfers on the front pads though.

I even tried a long tough screw driver in the vents of the disc (bad I know) to try and see if I could get any leverage to create movement. But nothing! All calipers torqued up correctly too.
Click to expand...

sorry, you know what i think... dump the braided for rubber and clamp em off to make sure it's the calipers :D :p
 
trax said:
sorry, you know what i think... dump the braided for rubber and clamp em off to make sure it's the calipers :D [emoji14]
Click to expand...
I would do that mate but I don't think they do extended ones do they? It can only be the front axle too if it happens when turning. Looks like I'm going to have to live with it
 
ONE LIFE LIVE IT. D90 said:
I would do that mate but I don't think they do extended ones do they? It can only be the front axle too if it happens when turning. Looks like I'm going to have to live with it
Click to expand...

can't find any m10 end stop.

you got a welder.. maybe soldering iron?

you could always get a m10x1 female and solder/weld the end to make an end stop.

stick it on instead of the caliper to isolate it. you could maybe use copper pipe folded a few times instead of welding.
 
read the lot, then re read the first post.
gut feeling is still wheel bearings, and after a load of Guinness, gonna offer a non tried, hairbrained idea.
using 4 matches (unused), cable tie or securely affix by other means, one to each side of the front disc to within a fag paper packet distance of contact.
go for your drive, taking in a few corners.
have a gawp underneath and see if any matches are dead due to striking contact with a disk.

failing that, I'm with trax, and clamp the pipes individually.

edit.
drunken ramblings.
ya cant fix a match to the outer edges :D
 
Last edited:
nrgserv said:
read the lot, then re read the first post.
gut feeling is still wheel bearings, and after a load of Guinness, gonna offer a non tried, hairbrained idea.
using 4 matches (unused), cable tie or securely affix by other means, one to each side of the front disc to within a fag paper packet distance of contact.
go for your drive, taking in a few corners.
have a gawp underneath and see if any matches are dead due to striking contact with a disk.

failing that, I'm with trax, and clamp the pipes individually.

edit.
drunken ramblings.
ya cant fix a match to the outer edges :D
Click to expand...

i think he's saying BURN IT. BURN IT. BURN IT. :flame: :flame:
 
Have you tried driving in circle or whatever you need to do to make the fault appear but don't press the brake pedal. Come to stop (use handbrake gently) then whip the wheels off with the brakes in the 'fault condition' to see which caliper has the pads pushed back. A bit of hassle but may get you down to one corner for a start?
 
Have you checked disc runout? Something must be out of line somewhere. If not and your calipers are true to the swivels and there's no play in the wheel bearings then you have a faulty component.

Has it had anything touched with the vac system? Egr removed? Is the vac pump to servo pipe totally sealed? Had this on a mates disco, he hadn't sealed up the vac feed to the egr valve after he removed it, left the ecu and actuator connected under the bonnet so whenever he was coming off the power and the egr valve would of opened he lost his servo assist.
 
trax said:
i think he's saying BURN IT. BURN IT. BURN IT. :flame: :flame:
Click to expand...

nrgserv said:
read the lot, then re read the first post.
gut feeling is still wheel bearings, and after a load of Guinness, gonna offer a non tried, hairbrained idea.
using 4 matches (unused), cable tie or securely affix by other means, one to each side of the front disc to within a fag paper packet distance of contact.
go for your drive, taking in a few corners.
have a gawp underneath and see if any matches are dead due to striking contact with a disk.

failing that, I'm with trax, and clamp the pipes individually.

edit.
drunken ramblings.
ya cant fix a match to the outer edges :D
Click to expand...
I think I'll use the matches for the same thing trax is thinking instead hahaa.

Thankyou for the reply. I see what your getting at, and if all else fails it's worth a try.
 
Kwakerman said:
Have you tried driving in circle or whatever you need to do to make the fault appear but don't press the brake pedal. Come to stop (use handbrake gently) then whip the wheels off with the brakes in the 'fault condition' to see which caliper has the pads pushed back. A bit of hassle but may get you down to one corner for a start?
Click to expand...
That's a really good suggestion Kwakerman. I like the sound of that, certainly worth a try. It's a ball ache as you say, but the wheels have already been off a million times already, few more times isn't going to hurt.
TheMunster said:
Have you checked disc runout? Something must be out of line somewhere. If not and your calipers are true to the swivels and there's no play in the wheel bearings then you have a faulty component.

Has it had anything touched with the vac system? Egr removed? Is the vac pump to servo pipe totally sealed? Had this on a mates disco, he hadn't sealed up the vac feed to the egr valve after he removed it, left the ecu and actuator connected under the bonnet so whenever he was coming off the power and the egr valve would of opened he lost his servo assist.
Click to expand...
Thanks mate. I haven't checked disc runout, I assumed it was okay been as in a straight line and general driving the brakes are okay.

Servo, vacuum pump and one way valve replaced. I beleive it wasn't fitted with an EGR out the factory, and there is no T piece off the vacuum hose.



You all seem convinced it's wheel bearings. And so was I untill I replaced 2 of the four stub axles and bearings (passenger rear and drivers front). The other front one has been checked today several times with a pry bar at 6pm levering the wheel in every way. Even stuck a large screw driver in the vented disc to lever the disc and detect some play. Nothing!

Could the bearings/stub be good to feel at a standstill, but when moving have play?

And do you guys think it's the front axle or rear? Bearing in mind that driving in a straight line forward and reverse is perfect.

Thankyou all. Appreciate your efforts to help this annoying problem. Now, where are those matches haha
 
Could you check that the whole lengths of the front brake flexi pipes aren't getting caught or stretched as you turn the steering from lock to lock?

I may have missed it, but in the first post you mentioned a clicking noise - has that gone with the fettling you've done since?
 
boguing said:
Could you check that the whole lengths of the front brake flexi pipes aren't getting caught or stretched as you turn the steering from lock to lock?

I may have missed it, but in the first post you mentioned a clicking noise - has that gone with the fettling you've done since?
Click to expand...
Thanks for reply.

Checked the flexis and solid lines today. No issues, snagging, stretching rubbing or chaffing of any kind.

The clicking does seem to have gone, the only thing I can hear clanking now is the brake pads when the wheel is turned back and forth.
 
ONE LIFE LIVE IT. D90 said:
Thanks for reply.

Checked the flexis and solid lines today. No issues, snagging, stretching rubbing or chaffing of any kind.

The clicking does seem to have gone, the only thing I can hear clanking now is the brake pads when the wheel is turned back and forth.
Click to expand...

they clank? yeah that doesn't sound right.

you got the pin and springs in?
 
Last edited:
Kwakerman said:
Have you tried driving in circle or whatever you need to do to make the fault appear but don't press the brake pedal. Come to stop (use handbrake gently) then whip the wheels off with the brakes in the 'fault condition' to see which caliper has the pads pushed back. A bit of hassle but may get you down to one corner for a start?
Click to expand...

I think this may be what I was trying to say last night until beer got in the way :D

ya say you've got vented discs on the front? are they standard for model or upgrade / aftermarket fitment?
do you have wheel spacers fitted or large offset rims?

somethings allowing the pads to be pushed back to cause the excessive pedal travel after cornering by what you say.

where are you?
 
but you have
ff001455.jpg
in?

i've got the old style so i dunno how much they move tbh
 
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