Variable brake pedal feel

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Marmaduke said:
As the caliper attaches to the axle itself I would have thought there'd be much chance of it being out but as I said it's a weird place for the stub axle to bend
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I wouldn't have thought the bolt holes are out on the axle housing either. They effectively too far over to the road wheel. It could only be the stub axle do you think?
 
Marmaduke said:
Certainly needs a closer inspection, I take it there's no movement in the bearings
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The front right hub is showing signs of movement. Because the movement vanishes when the brake pedal is applied by an assistant, while I rock the wheel at 12. That bearing is torqued up to 120Nm (wrong I know) to get an idea of what's going on.

The rears are a similar story, but a very small amount.

Should the amount of movement when rocking the wheels be the same, brakes on or off?
 
Hmm. Stub axles tend to be fairly tough in themselves. In the event of accidents or major stress it tends to be the axle casings themselves that bend. The bearing might feel alright when you try to feel for slack by hand but under the full weight of the car going round a corner it might move some more.

Re: the other problem, could the disc be warped?
 
ONE LIFE LIVE IT. D90 said:
The front right hub is showing signs of movement. Because the movement vanishes when the brake pedal is applied by an assistant, while I rock the wheel at 12. That bearing is torqued up to 120Nm (wrong I know) to get an idea of what's going on.

The rears are a similar story, but a very small amount.

Should the amount of movement when rocking the wheels be the same, brakes on or off?
Click to expand...

With new bearings, and suitable adjustment (or shimming on newer models) you should be able to get it so there's no movement at all, brakes on or off. I think what's happening is that when the brakes are applied the disc is being held still so you can't feel the wobble any more.
 
Brown said:
Hmm. Stub axles tend to be fairly tough in themselves. In the event of accidents or major stress it tends to be the axle casings themselves that bend. The bearing might feel alright when you try to feel for slack by hand but under the full weight of the car going round a corner it might move some more.

Re: the other problem, could the disc be warped?
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Cheers Brown. That's interesting mate. The only thing is that the bolt holes for the caliper is effectively too far towards the wheel. Wouldn't that mean any impact would have come from under the tub so to speak?

And I tried another set of discs too on the rear. was the same with both sets. OEM branded
 
Brown said:
With new bearings, and suitable adjustment (or shimming on newer models) you should be able to get it so there's no movement at all, brakes on or off. I think what's happening is that when the brakes are applied the disc is being held still so you can't feel the wobble any more.
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They are new bearings on the side in question with the play. And I can't torque them up anymore without them over heating. I think they are over torqued now too, yet still have play. So must be rocking on the stub.

If I bought a new stub, could I re use the bearings? Or false economy?
 
Too far toward the wheel by how much? If it's just a few mm I wonder if the shoulder on the stub axle that the inner race bears against has worn - maybe it's spun a bearing in the past and worn it. The lugs the calliper is fastened to are pretty tough and hard to move. Think of all the force that is channelled through them when people try to get their calliper bolts undone - hammering, levering and the like. Plus they've got to stop the car. So I'd be surprised if they'd shifted. There's usually a gasket between the axle casing and stub axle, and if this was missing it would bring the hub and the calliper closer together but only by the thickness of a gasket paper.

I've seen bent axles on crashed vehicles in scrapyards. When my brother and I were doing low budget repairs on a Land Rover many years ago we used to find the hub components were perfectly serviceable even when the axle casing was bent. Yes, you could bend an axle by putting a very heavy weight in the back and driving over potholes I suppose, but then you'd see damage to spring mounts etc. as well I expect.

Oops - missed your question. Yes, maybe it's time to try new stub axles. My 20 year old self would re-use the bearings but now I'm 50 and have a salary I'd fit new ones. If they've been running off true for a while they'll have started to wear in peculiar shapes.
 
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Brown said:
Too far toward the wheel by how much? If it's just a few mm I wonder if the shoulder on the stub axle that the inner race bears against has worn - maybe it's spun a bearing in the past and worn it. The lugs the calliper is fastened to are pretty tough and hard to move. Think of all the force that is channelled through them when people try to get their calliper bolts undone - hammering, levering and the like. Plus they've got to stop the car. So I'd be surprised if they'd shifted. There's usually a gasket between the axle casing and stub axle, and if this was missing it would bring the hub and the calliper closer together but only by the thickness of a gasket paper.

I've seen bent axles on crashed vehicles in scrapyards. When my brother and I were doing low budget repairs on a Land Rover many years ago we used to find the hub components were perfectly serviceable even when the axle casing was bent. Yes, you could bend an axle by putting a very heavy weight in the back and driving over potholes I suppose, but then you'd see damage to spring mounts etc. as well I expect.

Oops - missed your question. Yes, maybe it's time to try new stub axles. My 20 year old self would re-use the bearings but now I'm 50 and have a salary I'd fit new ones. If they've been running off true for a while they'll have started to wear in peculiar shapes.
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Thanks Brown. And Marmaduke by the way.

In regard to the rear caliper. I would say it's sitting closer to the wheel by 2 to 3mm. I actually have a photo (hopefully it's uploaded). As a fudge, I spaced the caliper off the axle housing with some fine washers. It kinda worked but not great.
0ed72dc8691c09dba1f5ea28eac38424.jpg
018bc482d89f1a3ef1ee0937d6d751c4.jpg



If the bearings are taking alot of torquing up, looks like I need 3 new stubs then. I've only got one passenger side front that feels as it should haha.
 
don't torque bearings up unless they are sealed. do it by hand until the slack is just out, rotate a bit and check again. you will gt a feel for them and will be able to diagnose via the vibes in the wheel when spinngng (sometimes :p)

you've probably killed all the bearing you've put in :(
 
trax said:
don't torque bearings up unless they are sealed. do it by hand until the slack is just out, rotate a bit and check again. you will gt a feel for them and will be able to diagnose via the vibes in the wheel when spinngng (sometimes [emoji14])

you've probably killed all the bearing you've put in :(
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They weren't torqued up one installed from new mate. I just had to torque them up alot this week to get rid of any play
 
Just abit of an update.

Changed the drivers side stub axle and bearings. No improvement to the brake pedal feel after turning sharply. Adjusted passenger side so there's no free play.

Still no better, the pedal travel doubles when braking after full lock. It's more irritating that I can't find the problem than it is causing a problem.

However, on the plus side. I replaced the rear stub axle and bearings to try and sort the caliper that was sitting off center. And it's now sitting perfectly central. :D

Thanks all
 
Good to hear there is some progress at any rate. Keep at it - sooner or later there won't be anything left to malfunction!

I know it sounds like an obvious question, and I'm sure you've checked and checked this again, but three's nothing getting pinched, stretched or creased when the front wheels are on full lock, is there? The flexible hoses, the little bits of metal pipe that go from the flexi to the calliper itself?
 
Cheers Brown.

I'm going to get the front axle on axle stands today. And triple check any hoses/pipes from lock to lock.

Maybe turning it lock to lock on the axle stands may cause the same issue if it isn't a wheel bearing problem? If it doesn't occur then it is a bearing problem?
 
Thinking about things that could cause the discs to move, does the drive flange slide freely on the splines of the drive shaft? If it's getting hung up on a burr or something it may mean that the hub is trying to slide in and out when the wheels are turned, which might tend to separate the brake pads. Are the stub axle bolts nice and tight and holding it firmly against the swivel housing?
 
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