Variable brake pedal feel

ONE LIFE LIVE IT. D90 said:

So does that mean the furthest lip should be 5mm below? Or the actual shoulder?

I notice it also says a maximum amount of grease. So it must have some impact on the bearings .

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This is the tool http://www.lrfaq.org/series/images/LandRoverHubSealSeatingTool.pdf so you can see which part of the seal should be recessed by 5mm.

I think that you misread the grease bit. It gives a minimum, and then says liberally further on. That's not suggesting packing, but it doesn't say smear.

jamesmartin said:

if you fit the bearing race like that it wont do the bearing any good

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I only did it temporary James to rule out bearings. Only literally drove the land rover off the drive to see if it worked, and then re adjusted as per the workshop manual.

Surely if I can't feel any play by rocking the wheels, it's not bearings? It's driving me crazy this problem is.

I'm so reluctant to bleed brakes again with having so many problems in the past. Mainly due to faulty parts. Hense why I haven't replaced flexis again. There's only so many times a part can be replaced to rule it out.

jamesmartin said:

if you fit the bearing race like that it wont do the bearing any good

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No, that wouldn't be clever.

ONE LIFE LIVE IT. D90 said:

My rave workshop manual says to fit the seal flush with the outer edge of the hub. It's amazing how the different manuals say different things.

I just fit the outer lip to the edge of the hub. Which in turn, the mean body of the seal (the strong part which is used to knock the seal in) is about 5mm deep in the hub. Is this correct?

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originally the seals were a std oil seal with no lip on the outside,then the seal was updated to ftc4785 which has a dust lip which seals against the stub axle, manuals have a few instructions that never got updated just recopied, if you fitted hub and bearings correctly there should be no play at all in the wheel however you fitted seal,wrong way round is the usual i find

ONE LIFE LIVE IT. D90 said:

I only did it temporary James to rule out bearings. Only literally drove the land rover off the drive to see if it worked, and then re adjusted as per the workshop manual.

Surely if I can't feel any play by rocking the wheels, it's not bearings? It's driving me crazy this problem is.

I'm so reluctant to bleed brakes again with having so many problems in the past. Mainly due to faulty parts. Hense why I haven't replaced flexis again. There's only so many times a part can be replaced to rule it out.

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in the manual it shows race been drifted in which is not a good idea, if theres no play in wheel its not the bearings

jamesmartin said:

originally the seals were a std oil seal with no lip on the outside,then the seal was updated to ftc4785 which has a dust lip which seals against the stub axle, manuals have a few instructions that never got updated just recopied, if you fitted hub and bearings correctly there should be no play at all in the wheel however you fitted seal,wrong way round is the usual i find

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Cheers chaps.

Do you fit that dust lip flush with the hub James? That dust lip sticks out doesn't it.

jamesmartin said:

originally the seals were a std oil seal with no lip on the outside,then the seal was updated to ftc4785 which has a dust lip which seals against the stub axle, manuals have a few instructions that never got updated just recopied, if you fitted hub and bearings correctly there should be no play at all in the wheel however you fitted seal,wrong way round is the usual i find

Click to expand...

I fit that dust lip facing out, and flush with the edge of the hub? Is that what you do James with ftc4785 which is what I've fitted

Aah, I was beginning to wonder what was going on.

ONE LIFE LIVE IT. D90 said:

Cheers chaps.

Do you fit that dust lip flush with the hub James? That dust lip sticks out doesn't it.


I fit that dust lip facing out, and flush with the edge of the hub? Is that what you do James with ftc4785 which is what I've fitted

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lips should protrude a little,seal itself just slightly below flush

if you sit in the drivers seat and press pedal hard and hold then turn the steering wheel does pedal drop further

jamesmartin said:

lips should protrude a little,seal itself just slightly below flush

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Seems like I've fitted all four seals a little too far in then. Could this be the cause? Or will the bearings fail early from not being seal properly?

I think it maybe time to get a land rover specialist to do work on mine. I make too many mistakes.

boguing said:

This is the tool http://www.lrfaq.org/series/images/LandRoverHubSealSeatingTool.pdf so you can see which part of the seal should be recessed by 5mm.

I think that you misread the grease bit. It gives a minimum, and then says liberally further on. That's not suggesting packing, but it doesn't say smear.

Click to expand...

but as it says tool is for rtc3511 oil seal as in pic

as you can see in this pic a few do fit wrong way round

ONE LIFE LIVE IT. D90 said:

Seems like I've fitted all four seals a little too far in then. Could this be the cause? Or will the bearings fail early from not being seal properly?

I think it maybe time to get a land rover specialist to do work on mine. I make too many mistakes.

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it wont hurt at all

jamesmartin said:

if you sit in the drivers seat and press pedal hard and hold then turn the steering wheel does pedal drop further

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Just checked this James. The pedal doesn't budge, stays in the same position from lock to lock. Same applies when the front axle is on axle stands.

Does that rule out an issue with the pedal box and even the front flexi hoses?

The pedal sinks worse off road than on.

not if articulation is involved that may well mean flexi

jamesmartin said:

not if articulation is involved that may well mean flexi

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I've had my dad wiggle the flexis while I press the brakes. That made no difference or didn't show anything up.

Would you replace flexis now James? And is rocking the wheel at 12 and 6 by hand on axle stands enough to detect bearing play?

I'm sorry to bring this one back up again. You may want to advise me to give up, but I don't like things beating me.

Anyway, the other day I tried some smaller wheels/tyres on the front to see if it would make any difference. And it didn't!

So I thought sod it, I'm sick of this I'm buying new flexi hoses and seeing if it cures it.

So today's job was fitting new flexis, but before I did. I clamped the existing flexi on each front wheel to see if the problem still occurred. Both left the same results... pretty much perfect with only a very very tiny amount of pedal sink when cornering (private land). Totally nit picking really.

So at least I've narrowed it down to the front end. Anyway, new hoses replaced and bled perfect. Unfortunately, with no improvement on the road test. It's seeming like it's not a particular side as both left the same results when clamping, it seems a little of both side causing a large amount at the pedal.

The reason I'm posting is I want to ask your advise on using the bearing spacers that the td5 defender models use. Is there anyway I could fit these? As you know, there is no play to be felt in the bearings but with a spacer I might get more torque and more accurate tightening. I'll try anything really.

Sorry to dig it back out.

ONE LIFE LIVE IT. D90 said:

I'm sorry to bring this one back up again. You may want to advise me to give up, but I don't like things beating me.

Anyway, the other day I tried some smaller wheels/tyres on the front to see if it would make any difference. And it didn't!

So I thought sod it, I'm sick of this I'm buying new flexi hoses and seeing if it cures it.

So today's job was fitting new flexis, but before I did. I clamped the existing flexi on each front wheel to see if the problem still occurred. Both left the same results... pretty much perfect with only a very very tiny amount of pedal sink when cornering (private land). Totally nit picking really.

So at least I've narrowed it down to the front end. Anyway, new hoses replaced and bled perfect. Unfortunately, with no improvement on the road test. It's seeming like it's not a particular side as both left the same results when clamping, it seems a little of both side causing a large amount at the pedal.

The reason I'm posting is I want to ask your advise on using the bearing spacers that the td5 defender models use. Is there anyway I could fit these? As you know, there is no play to be felt in the bearings but with a spacer I might get more torque and more accurate tightening. I'll try anything really.

Sorry to dig it back out.

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spacers wont help, you either have play in bearings or you dont, tightening the nut to a hefty torque doesnt alter preload or have any effect on the bearings providing correct one is used compared to std 2 nut system,though you could fit one its just knowing which is the correct size

jamesmartin said:

spacers wont help, you either have play in bearings or you dont, tightening the nut to a hefty torque doesnt alter preload or have any effect on the bearings providing correct one is used compared to std 2 nut system,though you could fit one its just knowing which is the correct size

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Ahh I see. It sounds like it's time to turn a blind eye then as I'm out of options.

Land rovers EH! Certainly keep you busy.

Thanks all

ONE LIFE LIVE IT. D90 said:

Ahh I see. It sounds like it's time to turn a blind eye then as I'm out of options.

Land rovers EH! Certainly keep your busy.

Thanks all

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where about do you live

jamesmartin said:

where about do you live

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Wolverhampton James. Although will travel to a degree