Freelander 1 Tailgate glass - summary of knowledge?

IanSG19 · Dec 11, 2018

Yes, it's this old chestnut again, and I've looked through all the previous threads, but was hoping to perhaps get a bit more clarity on what parts are in the system to ID what has gone wrong.

So my window isn't dropping enough to clear the channel when I activate the tailgate handle (2006 TD4 Hardback). Luckily I can *ease* it open enough to push the glass down manually. Other than that, the window operates EXACTLY as per normal (although I seem to recall that when I put it down partially - using the switch - it automatically went back up, which it no longer does). This would seem to discount the motor as the source of the problem. The handle does the double-click thing which it has always done.

I tried all the various recalibration methods suggested on here (battery disconnected, with and without engine running, fob x 6, etc.), but nothing has worked. The rear wiper arm is parked normally (on the rubber).

Specific questions:-
1. IS there a relay somewhere which handles this action? If so, where is it on a Hardback?
2. Are the "cables" which have been mentioned mechanical in nature, or electrical wires? Are these attached to the handle switch?
3. How hard is it to get at and replace the handle microswitch?

Many thanks, and apologies for raking over old ground.

Nodge68 · Dec 11, 2018

IanSG19 said:
1. IS there a relay somewhere which handles this action? If so, where is it on a Hardback?

The rear window is controlled by the CCU, which is behind the interior fuse box.

IanSG19 said:
2. Are the "cables" which have been mentioned mechanical in nature, or electrical wires? Are these attached to the handle switch?

The window cables are mechanical cables that winch the window up or down, under motor drive, the motor it's self controlled by the CCU.

The micro-switch is just a switch in the handle, which is connected to the CCU by electrical wires.

IanSG19 said:
3. How hard is it to get at and replace the handle microswitch?

Normally the micro-switch is fine (the fact it works proves this). Normally the springs that return the door release flappy thing is what fail. The springs rust through in time, reducing the return pressure of the flap and often jamming it. The springs are available on EBay and are easy to change, using nothing more than a screwdriver.

Nodge68 · Dec 11, 2018

IanSG19 said:
2. Are the "cables" which have been mentioned mechanical in nature

The cables being nce can cause the incorrect drop of the window and so can bad adjustment or poor lubrication. Basically anything that allows the window to stick, will stop is dropping the correct amount.

IanSG19 · Dec 11, 2018

Thanks Nodge - really helpful. I might start with the springs - when you say "nothing more than a screwdriver", this would be used for getting the door panel off as well?
Cables: is the term "nce" a bit of vernacular, or a typo?

)

Cheers

Nodge68 · Dec 11, 2018

IanSG19 said:
I might start with the springs - when you say "nothing more than a screwdriver"

That's correct. A No 2 Pozi-drive screwdriver.

IanSG19 said:
this would be used for getting the door panel off as well?

No need to take the door card off as the springs for the door switch are under the handle, just to the left of the number plate lamps. You use the screwdriver to unscrew the release flap unit from the door handle assembly.

IanSG19 · Dec 11, 2018

Thanks - i'll see if I can operate it manually once I have taken the flap off, if that is how it works! Will keep you posted.

Juzza6720 · Dec 11, 2018

I had something similar where the tailgate glass would only drop slightly (also slightly un-even side to side) and would catch on the top when the tailgate door was opened. I then had to manually push the glass down about an inch before I shut it but it came up properly each time. This was caused by a dodgy tensioner on the cables - a large white thing that attached directly to the motor. There was slack in the cables because of it and when I used the tailgate door handle to open it, the motor ran to drop the glass but it actually just took up the slack rather than moved the glass properly. I new cable set wasn't that expensive but I never got around to fixing it before I had the head gasket go (1.8 petrol).

IanSG19 · Dec 11, 2018

Thanks Juzza. Did it just pack up after working normally for ages, rather than getting worse gradually?

Nodge68 · Dec 11, 2018

Juzza6720 said:
This was caused by a dodgy tensioner on the cables - a large white thing that attached directly to the motor.

That component is a cam locking tensioner. When the motor snatches the cable briefly, the cam is supposed to lock, tugging the window down a few centimetres. Sometimes the cam assembly gets worn and doesn't pull the window down. In this instance, the cams slip past each other and the tension spring compresses, instead of pulling the window down. If the window runners get dirty or there's insufficient lubrication, then the cams get worn, giving the same fault.

IanSG19 · Dec 11, 2018

Plenty for me to work on there, so much appreciated!

Juzza6720 · Dec 11, 2018

IanSG19 said:
Thanks Juzza. Did it just pack up after working normally for ages, rather than getting worse gradually?

It was working properly then the cables snapped so I tried to replace them (in the rain) and while testing it I noticed the "Cam locking tensioner" wasn't right, think it was locked solid and as the tailgate was opened I could see the slack in the cables being taken up and then the window dropping slightly once the cables were tight (I was in the boot with someone else outside opening the tailgate). Meant to get around to replacing it again but never got around to it. I think the tensioner comes already on the cable but the whole set was under a tenner.

IanSG19 · Dec 11, 2018

OK, bit of an update. Took the handle out and one of the little springs was rusty and *had* snapped, but the other one was fine and giving sufficient tension.
Took off the door card and the "waterproof" film. Disconnected the connector on the microswitch/solenoid and stuck my avo electrodes in the end from the handle. Operated the handle and it gave a momentary (0.5s or so) pulse of about 12V, so i assume that the handle end and the CCU is working.
It makes the right noises, but there is no movement in any of the cables.
Does anyone know what a properly functioning cam-locking tensioner looks like when you press the door handle? There appears to be no activity whatsoever in the tensioner or the biggish spring on the cable side of it. Does this indicate that the solenoid piston has seized? I have seen a video showing how that can be taken apart and cleaned up, so i might try that.
Failing that, i guess it is a case of replacing the cables and/or regulator.
The good news is that none of these things sounds desperately expensive.

Any further advice/suggestions gratefully received, especially regarding what the action looks like when it is working!!

Old diver · Dec 11, 2018

IanSG19 said:
OK, bit of an update. Took the handle out and one of the little springs was rusty and *had* snapped, but the other one was fine and giving sufficient tension.
Took off the door card and the "waterproof" film. Disconnected the connector on the microswitch/solenoid and stuck my avo electrodes in the end from the handle. Operated the handle and it gave a momentary (0.5s or so) pulse of about 12V, so i assume that the handle end and the CCU is working.
It makes the right noises, but there is no movement in any of the cables.
Does anyone know what a properly functioning cam-locking tensioner looks like when you press the door handle? There appears to be no activity whatsoever in the tensioner or the biggish spring on the cable side of it. Does this indicate that the solenoid piston has seized? I have seen a video showing how that can be taken apart and cleaned up, so i might try that.
Failing that, i guess it is a case of replacing the cables and/or regulator.
The good news is that none of these things sounds desperately expensive.

Any further advice/suggestions gratefully received, especially regarding what the action looks like when it is working!!

Once you have sorted it, replace the waterproof film with wooden floor underlay and double sided tape. It is impervious to water and is more of a soundproof material.

Nodge68 · Dec 11, 2018

IanSG19 said:
Does anyone know what a properly functioning cam-locking tensioner looks like when you press the door handle?

Get a helper to operate the window switch while looking at the square block on one of the cables where it joins the motor. You should see the cable slide out when the window goes up, but not slide in when it goes down, until the window stops at the bottom.

The item in question looks like this.

Here's the complete regulator assembly.

IanSG19 said:
Does this indicate that the solenoid piston has seized?

The solenoid controls the door release, not the window mechanism. The window is driven by the motor and cables shown above.

IanSG19 · Dec 12, 2018

Thanks Nodge. The spring on my tensioner is very much less compressed that your picture. Suspect that might be indicative of my issue. I'll do the tests later.

Nodge68 · Dec 12, 2018

IanSG19 said:
The spring on my tensioner is very much less compressed that your picture.

That'll be the problem.

IanSG19 · Dec 12, 2018

So the whole regulator assembly will need removal, and renovation or replacement, as per the picture threads elsewhere on the Zone?
Thanks for your help!

Nodge68 · Dec 12, 2018

You can buy just the cables for a few quid. The whole regulator, minus the motor for about £30. Or you can get the regulator with the motor for more £££.

IanSG19 · Dec 12, 2018

And remind me (being lazy and saving time looking in other threads!) do I need to take the regulator mechanism and motor out to do the cable replacement?
You're a star!

Nodge68 · Dec 12, 2018

IanSG19 said:
do I need to take the regulator mechanism and motor out to do the cable replacement?

Yes. Which is why it's laid out on the floor in the picture I posted. I'd just fitted new cables to it and took the picture before I refitted the assembly.

Freelander 1 Tailgate glass - summary of knowledge?

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