P38A Starting mystery ( Diesel)

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tarphenry

tarphenry

Well-Known Member
Posts
1,540
Location
bury lancs
Hi all. Whilst on holiday , the car failed to start, made no attempt at all. A chap next to me put one of these "magic" boxes on the battery, no effect. Then we tried jump starting it , no effect and the battery seemed very low after all these efforts ,so I called recovery. 35 mins later, a tech rolls up ,i gave him the key and it fired up immediately 4 or 5 times. My battery is charging ok and everything seems good. I have no idea where to look. has this happened to anyone else? any and all assistance is appreciated Mick
 
tarphenry said:
Hi all. Whilst on holiday , the car failed to start, made no attempt at all. A chap next to me put one of these "magic" boxes on the battery, no effect. Then we tried jump starting it , no effect and the battery seemed very low after all these efforts ,so I called recovery. 35 mins later, a tech rolls up ,i gave him the key and it fired up immediately 4 or 5 times. My battery is charging ok and everything seems good. I have no idea where to look. has this happened to anyone else? any and all assistance is appreciated Mick
Click to expand...
No start or no crank?
 
Hi Keith, no start cranks ok but battery seemed to lose power pretty quick. I have previously checked for parasitic drain but found none and also have a permanent 50 watt solar panel on roof.
 
If it cranks but does not start, assuming the in tank pump is working, then loss of sync from BECM to EDC is likely. What make is the battery? Some self discharge PDQ. Solar panel flat on the roof will often not produce much power, enough to keep a good battery topped up but not much more, I assume you have a charge regulator for the panel?
 
So battery seems too tired to crank but five minutes later cranks it over no problem and it starts with no issues?

I'd be thinking bad connection somewhere, probably the earth. Or the earth cable is bad inside. I'd go through the electrical troubleshooting guide on rr.net. There's a cooy on here somewhere too. I guess it might even be a dry joint in the fusebox. iiirc the starter fuse is one of those big 80A ones.
 
Datatek said:
If it cranks but does not start, assuming the in tank pump is working, then loss of sync from BECM to EDC is likely. What make is the battery? Some self discharge PDQ. Solar panel flat on the roof will often not produce much power, enough to keep a good battery topped up but not much more, I assume you have a charge regulator for the panel?
Click to expand...
Yes i have regulator and the battery is good ,tested by a trusted supplier just 6 weeks ago. no problems since that time I will check the earths as suggested but I cannot think of anything else until it happens again. thanks for your help as usual
 
Grrrrrr said:
So battery seems too tired to crank but five minutes later cranks it over no problem and it starts with no issues?

I'd be thinking bad connection somewhere, probably the earth. Or the earth cable is bad inside. I'd go through the electrical troubleshooting guide on rr.net. There's a cooy on here somewhere too. I guess it might even be a dry joint in the fusebox. iiirc the starter fuse is one of those big 80A ones..
Click to expand...
Thanks ,I will check the earths . it has not happened since . I will probably have to wait till it happens again thanks for your help
 
Hi, I may have found the problem ,if not the solution to my starting problem. I have a voltmeter fitted to the car and also one from the solar panel. I have been reading both, which are showing me what the solar panel is doing, not the state of the battery . I believe that I have a parasitic drain and I am not seeing it because the solar panel is showing 12.6 - 14 volts. at least I have somewhere to start now
Mark Piercy said:
Have you checked the resistance on the glow plugs?
Just one plug down will produce a long crank and start. 😜
Click to expand...
No but I will now do so. please read my latest post thanks as always
 
tarphenry said:
Hi, I may have found the problem ,if not the solution to my starting problem. I have a voltmeter fitted to the car and also one from the solar panel. I have been reading both, which are showing me what the solar panel is doing, not the state of the battery . I believe that I have a parasitic drain and I am not seeing it because the solar panel is showing 12.6 - 14 volts. at least I have somewhere to start now

No but I will now do so. please read my latest post thanks as always
Click to expand...
If the solar panel is keeping the battery between 12.6 & 14 volts, it would seem to me that any parasitic drain is not going to stop the car starting.
 
Datatek said:
If the solar panel is keeping the battery between 12.6 & 14 volts, it would seem to me that any parasitic drain is not going to stop the car starting.
Click to expand...
I believe that the meters are showing the output of the panel ,dependant on sunlight, and not the actual state of the battery
 
tarphenry said:
I believe that the meters are showing the output of the panel ,dependant on sunlight, and not the actual state of the battery
Click to expand...
No load output of a solar panel is around 20 volts, if it's connected to the battery, the meters are showing battery volts. You can easily prove this by putting a DVM across the battery terminals, it should show the same as your other meters within 0.1 of a volt.
 
I have just realised that I may be missing the obvious, "hot start problem" . it has happened twice, both times after going out for lunch. Car reaches normal temp, then cools a little then wont start. Its a timing chain fault I believe. . I know that my fuel pump wont turn any further (I tried last year) maybe a hot start cheat will keep me going until the holiday season is over. What is your opinion folks?
 
tarphenry said:
I have just realised that I may be missing the obvious, "hot start problem" . it has happened twice, both times after going out for lunch. Car reaches normal temp, then cools a little then wont start. Its a timing chain fault I believe. . I know that my fuel pump wont turn any further (I tried last year) maybe a hot start cheat will keep me going until the holiday season is over. What is your opinion folks?
Click to expand...
If the chain has stretched to the point that the FIP is at maximum movement, I'd be replacing the chains PDQ before thy let go. You need diagnostics to establish exactly what the timing is, maybe the FIP is over advanced for example.
The hot start fix is just a bodge to cover up a problem that is easy to fix properly.
 
The problem in uk at the moment is that there are only 2 P38 garages that are trusworthy, both very busy and both 100+ miles away .How difficult is it tho check FIP timing?
 
tarphenry said:
The problem in uk at the moment is that there are only 2 P38 garages that are trusworthy, both very busy and both 100+ miles away .How difficult is it tho check FIP timing?
Click to expand...
Dead easy with a Nanocom and very easy to adjust with my steel rule method. If you do not want to buy a Nanocom, look at the LandyZone rescue map for someone near you that might help.
 
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