P38A Should you lift a Range Rover? Air/Coil?

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300bhp/ton said:
If you like. It's a bit of unfair and unhelpful stance to take. However I think if that is the case, it demonstrates it is not that simple or easy to fix in all circumstances. And while I'm not claiming to be an expert or Einstein. I don't think I'm a complete luddite either. I'm a Software Tester/Engineer by profession (past 16 years). Used to build and overhaul light aircraft engines/props, grew up on a farm. And a car/4x4/Land Rover enthusiast. Have done lots of engine swaps, designed the suspension on my 88 leafer and completely rebuilt it, built a coiler 88 and modified plenty of other vehicles.

Hobbies include building RC planes & cars and amateur electronics such as building LED torches.

i.e. I'm not a complete numpty doing mechanical or electrical things on cars.

And as said above. I still own the vehicle. If you are willing to come and show me how quick, cheap and easy it is to fix. Then I am 100% willing and receptive to it. :)
Click to expand...

Not calling you a duffer you are obviously very handy. However knowing your panache for off roading and modding things. Maybe you were trying to set the EAS higher than can be done. There are set limits for each height that cannot be exceeded. I don't know it's just a guess. If you have a P38 that rolls on cornering it needs new shocks and or suspension bushes. And i don't mean the stupid poly bushes either. Mine is rock steady and taut handling wise. I have looked at the tyres you say you have fitted and they do indeed fit into the pre 2004 speedo regs. However the lift you have put on your car makes it a lot more liable to roll in an high speed evasive maneuver. Sliding down the motorway on it's side at 70 MPH will not do it a lot of good. ;)
 
If a thick as ****e agri engineer like me can set EAS anyone can ;)

It just takes patience.

As above the nice thing about EAS on mine is it doesn't roll to excess when going around corners, my Classic would induce motion sickness even on the slightest of turns :confused:

I will admit mine was a tad unweildly however a new set of shockers and some balljoints sorted that out.. :D
 
wammers said:
Not calling you a duffer you are obviously very handy. However knowing your panache for off roading and modding things. Maybe you were trying to set the EAS higher than can be done. There are set limits for each height that cannot be exceeded. I don't know it's just a guess. If you have a P38 that rolls on cornering it needs new shocks and or suspension bushes. And i don't mean the stupid poly bushes either. Mine is rock steady and taut handling wise. I have looked at the tyres you say you have fitted and they do indeed fit into the pre 2004 speedo regs. However the lift you have put on your car makes it a lot more liable to roll in an high speed evasive maneuver. Sliding down the motorway on it's side at 70 MPH will not do it a lot of good. ;)
Click to expand...
Wasn't trying anything fancy with the EAS. Wanted it just to sit level at the factory heights for each mode. The EAS levels worked 100% before hand. After it ruptured the pipe for the tank, it took some time to diagnose this. When I figure that out and got it working again, the passenger side was 3-4" too tall. Pretty no matter what I did. All the values seemed to be correctly programmed. i.e. it was programmed fir example at 101 on the drivers side and 103 on the left. However when you got the vehicle to select that level, the actual results would be 80 and 120. On a different ride height the value on one side might match the programmed value, but one side was always very wrong.

If I could have got the EAS working, I would have kept it. But yes, it defeated me. My hunch is still the height sensors, but why all 4 would appear to fail at exactly the same time I'm not sure. I know it needed new air springs, but apart from slowly leaking through them (would take about 10 days - 2 weeks to sink). I know they weren't the cause of the grief. But I would have replaced them had I got it working. So it was still a cost to consider.

As for the leaning. We've had 3 p38's. The first one was brand new in 1995/6. My current one didn't ride or handle any differently to the others. It is the initial lean on turn in. I think what happens is, the air bag is as its softest before the vehicle leans and transfers weight. This weight will immediately squash the air spring, which due to being an air spring will now increase its pressure with weight on it. And become more stiff. A coil doesn't really do this and will give a more constant spring rate as it compresses. and that is the exact feel, as you turn in (doesn't need to be high speed, even a round about), the vehicle will lean and pitch over to one side, then feel like it stiffens up and stops leaning and further.

In real life, I recall a holiday to Wales, must have been 1997'ish. I was driving are then single exhaust 4.6 which we had from new. I was following my Uncle in a 110. the 110 was on AT's the p38 on factory road biased tyres. On a tight bend on one of the narrow Wlesh lanes, following the same line as the 110, the 110 went straight round. The p38 wanted to go straight on and made a beeline for hedge and stone wall. I believe it was all how the EAS handles initial body roll. And is likely one of the prime reasons LR developed the ACE system for the Discovery 2.

I'm not knocking the handling of the p38. I wouldn't own one if I didn't like it. Just making an observation. :)
 
Henry_b said:
If a thick as ****e agri engineer like me can set EAS anyone can ;)

It just takes patience.

As above the nice thing about EAS on mine is it doesn't roll to excess when going around corners, my Classic would induce motion sickness even on the slightest of turns :confused:

I will admit mine was a tad unweildly however a new set of shockers and some balljoints sorted that out.. :D
Click to expand...

You should have driven one of the two door classics without the rear anti roll bars they were frightening on twist roads. :D
 
Henry_b said:
If a thick as ****e agri engineer like me can set EAS anyone can ;)

It just takes patience.
Click to expand...
Well the offer is open to you also. If you want to come and help me; quickly, easily and cheaply fix the EAS. Then I'm all Ears and would be very welcoming with a cup of tea and some biscuits...

Henry_b said:
As above the nice thing about EAS on mine is it doesn't roll to excess when going around corners, my Classic would induce motion sickness even on the slightest of turns :confused:

I will admit mine was a tad unweildly however a new set of shockers and some balljoints sorted that out.. :D
Click to expand...
RRC's vary hugely. Early ones have very soft springs rates. Latter ones less so. Some also don't have ARB's either. A late 300Tdi Discovery runs much stiffer springs for example.
 
300bhp/ton said:
Wasn't trying anything fancy with the EAS. Wanted it just to sit level at the factory heights for each mode. The EAS levels worked 100% before hand. After it ruptured the pipe for the tank, it took some time to diagnose this. When I figure that out and got it working again, the passenger side was 3-4" too tall. Pretty no matter what I did. All the values seemed to be correctly programmed. i.e. it was programmed fir example at 101 on the drivers side and 103 on the left. However when you got the vehicle to select that level, the actual results would be 80 and 120. On a different ride height the value on one side might match the programmed value, but one side was always very wrong.

If I could have got the EAS working, I would have kept it. But yes, it defeated me. My hunch is still the height sensors, but why all 4 would appear to fail at exactly the same time I'm not sure. I know it needed new air springs, but apart from slowly leaking through them (would take about 10 days - 2 weeks to sink). I know they weren't the cause of the grief. But I would have replaced them had I got it working. So it was still a cost to consider.

As for the leaning. We've had 3 p38's. The first one was brand new in 1995/6. My current one didn't ride or handle any differently to the others. It is the initial lean on turn in. I think what happens is, the air bag is as its softest before the vehicle leans and transfers weight. This weight will immediately squash the air spring, which due to being an air spring will now increase its pressure with weight on it. And become more stiff. A coil doesn't really do this and will give a more constant spring rate as it compresses. and that is the exact feel, as you turn in (doesn't need to be high speed, even a round about), the vehicle will lean and pitch over to one side, then feel like it stiffens up and stops leaning and further.

In real life, I recall a holiday to Wales, must have been 1997'ish. I was driving are then single exhaust 4.6 which we had from new. I was following my Uncle in a 110. the 110 was on AT's the p38 on factory road biased tyres. On a tight bend on one of the narrow Wlesh lanes, following the same line as the 110, the 110 went straight round. The p38 wanted to go straight on and made a beeline for hedge and stone wall. I believe it was all how the EAS handles initial body roll. And is likely one of the prime reasons LR developed the ACE system for the Discovery 2.

I'm not knocking the handling of the p38. I wouldn't own one if I didn't like it. Just making an observation. :)
Click to expand...

Well mine handles very well no excess roll at all. Unlike the Disco i had that though it was a bouncy castle. New shocks cured that. My L322 is superb and goes to a different level again.
 
300bhp/ton said:
Wasn't trying anything fancy with the EAS. Wanted it just to sit level at the factory heights for each mode. The EAS levels worked 100% before hand. After it ruptured the pipe for the tank, it took some time to diagnose this. When I figure that out and got it working again, the passenger side was 3-4" too tall. Pretty no matter what I did. All the values seemed to be correctly programmed. i.e. it was programmed fir example at 101 on the drivers side and 103 on the left. However when you got the vehicle to select that level, the actual results would be 80 and 120. On a different ride height the value on one side might match the programmed value, but one side was always very wrong.

If I could have got the EAS working, I would have kept it. But yes, it defeated me. My hunch is still the height sensors, but why all 4 would appear to fail at exactly the same time I'm not sure. I know it needed new air springs, but apart from slowly leaking through them (would take about 10 days - 2 weeks to sink). I know they weren't the cause of the grief. But I would have replaced them had I got it working. So it was still a cost to consider.

As for the leaning. We've had 3 p38's. The first one was brand new in 1995/6. My current one didn't ride or handle any differently to the others. It is the initial lean on turn in. I think what happens is, the air bag is as its softest before the vehicle leans and transfers weight. This weight will immediately squash the air spring, which due to being an air spring will now increase its pressure with weight on it. And become more stiff. A coil doesn't really do this and will give a more constant spring rate as it compresses. and that is the exact feel, as you turn in (doesn't need to be high speed, even a round about), the vehicle will lean and pitch over to one side, then feel like it stiffens up and stops leaning and further.

In real life, I recall a holiday to Wales, must have been 1997'ish. I was driving are then single exhaust 4.6 which we had from new. I was following my Uncle in a 110. the 110 was on AT's the p38 on factory road biased tyres. On a tight bend on one of the narrow Wlesh lanes, following the same line as the 110, the 110 went straight round. The p38 wanted to go straight on and made a beeline for hedge and stone wall. I believe it was all how the EAS handles initial body roll. And is likely one of the prime reasons LR developed the ACE system for the Discovery 2.

I'm not knocking the handling of the p38. I wouldn't own one if I didn't like it. Just making an observation. :)
Click to expand...
Effectively the airsprings are as you say rising rate, I run both mine locked at motorway height and I reckon they corner pretty well once you get used to the way it responds, certainly better than any of my coil sprung 4x4's that preceded the P38.
 
Last edited:
I’m serious
These ones
31F6A758-B660-4E0A-9477-07CD5BB47100.jpeg
Sure there’s a special setting on something says ‘do not activate unless police’ or something to that effect
 
300bhp/ton said:
Wasn't trying anything fancy with the EAS. Wanted it just to sit level at the factory heights for each mode. The EAS levels worked 100% before hand. After it ruptured the pipe for the tank, it took some time to diagnose this. When I figure that out and got it working again, the passenger side was 3-4" too tall. Pretty no matter what I did. All the values seemed to be correctly programmed. i.e. it was programmed fir example at 101 on the drivers side and 103 on the left. However when you got the vehicle to select that level, the actual results would be 80 and 120. On a different ride height the value on one side might match the programmed value, but one side was always very wrong.

If I could have got the EAS working, I would have kept it. But yes, it defeated me. My hunch is still the height sensors, but why all 4 would appear to fail at exactly the same time I'm not sure. I know it needed new air springs, but apart from slowly leaking through them (would take about 10 days - 2 weeks to sink). I know they weren't the cause of the grief. But I would have replaced them had I got it working. So it was still a cost to consider.

As for the leaning. We've had 3 p38's. The first one was brand new in 1995/6. My current one didn't ride or handle any differently to the others. It is the initial lean on turn in. I think what happens is, the air bag is as its softest before the vehicle leans and transfers weight. This weight will immediately squash the air spring, which due to being an air spring will now increase its pressure with weight on it. And become more stiff. A coil doesn't really do this and will give a more constant spring rate as it compresses. and that is the exact feel, as you turn in (doesn't need to be high speed, even a round about), the vehicle will lean and pitch over to one side, then feel like it stiffens up and stops leaning and further.

In real life, I recall a holiday to Wales, must have been 1997'ish. I was driving are then single exhaust 4.6 which we had from new. I was following my Uncle in a 110. the 110 was on AT's the p38 on factory road biased tyres. On a tight bend on one of the narrow Wlesh lanes, following the same line as the 110, the 110 went straight round. The p38 wanted to go straight on and made a beeline for hedge and stone wall. I believe it was all how the EAS handles initial body roll. And is likely one of the prime reasons LR developed the ACE system for the Discovery 2.

I'm not knocking the handling of the p38. I wouldn't own one if I didn't like it. Just making an observation. :)
Click to expand...
That sounds to me like you had the wrong valves operating the wrong corners. Crossed pipes maybe. Irrelevant in your case I guess but might help someone else in the future.
 
RangeRoller dt said:
I’m serious
These onesView attachment 213630Sure there’s a special setting on something says ‘do not activate unless police’ or something to that effect
Click to expand...
There is a Police setting in the BECM, it was set active on my project car but I have no idea what it does other than perhaps allow for extra lights etc.
I turned it off with no obvious changes occurring.
 
Wazzajnr said:
That sounds to me like you had the wrong valves operating the wrong corners. Crossed pipes maybe. Irrelevant in your case I guess but might help someone else in the future.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the insight, but I know it wasn't the case. All pipes labelled and lines double/triple checked. The figures also match the lean, just nothing would adjust to the programmed heights correctly.
 
300bhp/ton said:
Well the offer is open to you also. If you want to come and help me; quickly, easily and cheaply fix the EAS. Then I'm all Ears and would be very welcoming with a cup of tea and some biscuits...


RRC's vary hugely. Early ones have very soft springs rates. Latter ones less so. Some also don't have ARB's either. A late 300Tdi Discovery runs much stiffer springs for example.
Click to expand...

I had a 1991 3.9 manual with anti roll bars, i fitted Police spec springs to stiffen it up a tad with Bilstein shocks it improved the handling horrible body lean 10 fold
 
Ah, the Police Setting in the BeCM. So, if I hook up the RSW software to go through the BeCM and review/change settings, I note that the Police setting is OFF, also it notes that the vehicle has a cruise control (which it does). I then hook up the Nano, and see that the Police setting it ON and the vehicle doesn't have a cruise control. Of course in Oz, there is no reason the Police setting would/should have been activated as no police force in Oz ever used these trucks.

I just find it interesting that two different software packages report two completely different things.
 
wammers said:
You should have driven one of the two door classics without the rear anti roll bars they were frightening on twist roads. :D
Click to expand...

Having had 27 Land Rovers and Range Rovers I can honestly say that the most fun to drive are classics, especially on gravel roads. We developed a technique where when heading towards a sharp corner, you get yourself into the right gear, lift off the power as you start the turn which causes the whole car to start to drift sideways. Once it is pointing in the right direction you stamp the throttle and all four wheels bite and it sends you straight forward. Great on ironstone pebbly roads in the bush.
 
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