P38A Should you lift a Range Rover? Air/Coil?

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Kit is sold by Bearmach. They are the experts, not me. Why the **** are you making it out as though I have completely made it all up?? Do you people not read good ??????

Which kit do they sell?...a lift kit for a P38 on air?...or a conversion to coil kit for a P38?...and a lift kit for a vehicle originally designed with coil suspension?...there is a difference and yes you can cobble the two together but!!!....
 
@300bhp/ton interesting write up thanks, the problems with air and the supporting electronics is one of the reasons I own a RRC instead of a P38. Love the look and interior of the P38 but no way would I be able to fix it, just too stupid.
In fact just a casual look at the Range Rover forum has probably 25% of questions relating to air problems, so I can understand anyone wanting a RR but without air.
Like you I have a speedo (on my 90) that now reads correctly, that is after putting in a disco tranny box, and slightly oversize rubber, just a case of changing the speedo drive gear. I often find I am driving at the legal limit on motorways and passing people who no doubt think I am over speeding.
 
The P38's EAS system is quite simple, once you read up and learn it is a piece of pish to fix.. ;)

The rrc vs p38 argument can be summed up in...

RRC Terminal rot or P38 electrical gremlins ;)

the EAS ride and handling is far superior to any coil sprung RR or LR 'tis why the last RRC utilised it ;)
 
The P38's EAS system is quite simple, once you read up and learn it is a piece of pish to fix.. ;)

The rrc vs p38 argument can be summed up in...

RRC Terminal rot or P38 electrical gremlins ;)

the EAS ride and handling is far superior to any coil sprung RR or LR 'tis why the last RRC utilised it ;)

I agree EAS is simple to repair and maintain. I worked on the RRC when it first came out, did lots of warranty work on mostly transfer boxes that fell apart at will. Nice motor to drive around, but a bloody nightmare at speed on a twisty road. The P38 by comparison to the early classics at least is on a different planet as regards handling and ride quality. And is pretty simple to work on if you know your onions. ;)
 
@300bhp/ton interesting write up thanks, the problems with air and the supporting electronics is one of the reasons I own a RRC instead of a P38. Love the look and interior of the P38 but no way would I be able to fix it, just too stupid.
In fact just a casual look at the Range Rover forum has probably 25% of questions relating to air problems, so I can understand anyone wanting a RR but without air.
Like you I have a speedo (on my 90) that now reads correctly, that is after putting in a disco tranny box, and slightly oversize rubber, just a case of changing the speedo drive gear. I often find I am driving at the legal limit on motorways and passing people who no doubt think I am over speeding.
As the others have said, the EAS is easy to fix. Almost all the problems come down to lack of maintenance, in particular the airsprings which have a design life of 7/8 years 80K miles, cheap and easy to replace. After overhaul mine has been pretty reliable for 10 years, ,just a driver pack and a dryer causing hiccups but never leaving me on the bump stops.
 
Which kit do they sell?...a lift kit for a P38 on air?...or a conversion to coil kit for a P38?...and a lift kit for a vehicle originally designed with coil suspension?...there is a difference and yes you can cobble the two together but!!!....
I assume you are simply too lazy to look at their site or use Google? They offer a coil conversion kit in about 4 different flavours. It is not labelled or sold as 'off road' only. It is intended to replace the air suspension for a road going vehicle.

Britpart and many others also sell conversion kits in the same manner.
 
Doesn't the extra insurance cost of coils offset any perceived saving in running/ maintenance cost ? I imagine my insurer having a field day with me if I said that i'd done this to my RR - at the very least you will be limited by the number of insurers who quote for modified vehicles. The difference between a coiled P38 and RRC/ Defender etc, is the manufacturer has actually got them through testing/ certification on coils.

The original post was very educational though, and well written - so thanks for that (not meant sarcastically)
I appreciate the thanks. But I think you are being incredibly naive about modified cars and insurance. Firstly, this is not heavily modified, there are far more heavily modified vehicles legally used and insured on the roads. So I have no idea why you find this unusual.

Secondly, most insurers are happy with modifications. At least a great deal many more than you are suggesting.

As for cost, I insure the p38 for under £200 a year. Fully comp, all mods listed and even an agreed value. It was no bother finding an insurer. I could have used one of a great number of options. As it happens I'm using one of the site sponsors. BTW - I own and insure vastly more modified vehicles than my p38. They too are cheap to insure.
 
If the cable is correct and you have comms you either manually depressurise the airbags via the FREE Rsw software and make it drop on to the calibration blocks.
You get the listed heights from the sensors in such and such position and write that as the desired height
The easiest way is to put the suspension on high, jack it up a bit more one jack on the front crossmember just in front of the radiator, the other one under the towbar and put your blocks in, starting with the highest. Release the jacks, then poke the rocker on the dash for access height. so it drops down and sits on the blocks. Open the door to inhibit it. Go to the Heights tab in the software and click, Get Sensor Heights, make a note of the readings for each corner. Go to the Calibrate tab, click Read All and you'll see two sets of numbers. Top ones are what it is programmed to now and the bottom set of numbers will show the same numbers. Change the bottom set to what you have just noted down and click Write. If you then click on Read All again, you'll see that the top set, the programmed heights, will have changed to what you have just input in the bottom set.

Jack up, take your blocks out, fit the next set "Standard" and do the same thing for each height setting. You can only change one height at a time, you can't amend more than one set of numbers and then Write the whole lot. The software will try to always put the car back to standard height so make sure it is sitting on the blocks and the door is open before reading the existing heights.

As i said if it sits stupid high even on access manually depressurise the system using the software and write them in that way..
Yes. And this is all good and that. :) And I would not argue this.

But you haven't been listening.

It would not do this. If you put it in high mode and lets say for arguments sake I put blocks in. The values for the height sensors would have to go below the permitted values to allow the vehicle to sit level. My hunch is it needed new height sensors. But I do not know this for sure. But for each height setting there is a min/max value you have on each sensor. When you are on the lowest value permitted and it is still 3" too high, you can't realistically lower it any further....

Height sensors are between £45-70/each. So a set of four is not cheap.
Add in a set of new air bags too and you have massively exceeded the cost of a coil conversion kit

AND don't forget the initial problem I had, was that it ruptured the airline to the tank. Something nobody has been able to even suggest a cause of. And it wasn't a one off, as it did it again with new piping and different routing. The last straw was while sitting in it programming the levels, it then threw a wobbly with something on the dash about an ECU fault and the RWS software presented me with this:
yaRaIbJ.jpg


However before this happened. If you adjusted the suspension through the software to set a height and store it. When you set the vehicle to that mode, it would not move to the saved positions, even though it would confirm they were saved.

Now it may well have been easy to fix. But it was beyond me. And I didn't have £100's to spend at a garage getting it diagnosed.

If you have any genuine insights to causes and solutions to these specific problems. Then I would honestly be interested. But it wasn't a simple case of a leaky valve block, non functioning compressor or worn air springs causing any of these problems.
 

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I've got £30 worth of useless wires, it wasn't until Datatek pointed me in the right direction that I got the right cable.. ;)

It could be the cable, or sometimes corrosion in the OBD port.

Sometimes the computer anorl.
Cabled was from Datatek and port is not corroded. Not even remotely, because I use it extensively and with my Nanocom.
 
Yes. And this is all good and that. :) And I would not argue this.

But you haven't been listening.

It would not do this. If you put it in high mode and lets say for arguments sake I put blocks in. The values for the height sensors would have to go below the permitted values to allow the vehicle to sit level. My hunch is it needed new height sensors. But I do not know this for sure. But for each height setting there is a min/max value you have on each sensor. When you are on the lowest value permitted and it is still 3" too high, you can't realistically lower it any further....

Height sensors are between £45-70/each. So a set of four is not cheap.
Add in a set of new air bags too and you have massively exceeded the cost of a coil conversion kit

AND don't forget the initial problem I had, was that it ruptured the airline to the tank. Something nobody has been able to even suggest a cause of. And it wasn't a one off, as it did it again with new piping and different routing. The last straw was while sitting in it programming the levels, it then threw a wobbly with something on the dash about an ECU fault and the RWS software presented me with this:
yaRaIbJ.jpg


However before this happened. If you adjusted the suspension through the software to set a height and store it. When you set the vehicle to that mode, it would not move to the saved positions, even though it would confirm they were saved.

Now it may well have been easy to fix. But it was beyond me. And I didn't have £100's to spend at a garage getting it diagnosed.

If you have any genuine insights to causes and solutions to these specific problems. Then I would honestly be interested. But it wasn't a simple case of a leaky valve block, non functioning compressor or worn air springs causing any of these problems.

That readout shows there is no communication EASunlock to vehicle. All faults are spurious.
 
I assume you are simply too lazy to look at their site or use Google? They offer a coil conversion kit in about 4 different flavours. It is not labelled or sold as 'off road' only. It is intended to replace the air suspension for a road going vehicle.

Britpart and many others also sell conversion kits in the same manner.

I think you missed my point...
 
First thing I did was look through my vehicle history of receipts from new. Vast majority of money spent in its initial 19yr LR sevice history was EAS, and it was still shot.
That’s not a lack of maintenance

It is if the person doing the maintenance did not have a clue what he was doing. Would a dealer fitter rebuild a compressor or fit a new one? Would a dealer fitter rebuild the valve block or fit a new one. New airbags about £240.00 if they last ten years that's £24.00 a year for bags. Say £50.00 for compressor kit and valve block kit. And they last ten years that's £5.00 a year. So we are up to £29.00 a year and a bit of labour do it yourself no cost and you learn something. I would say that is not a reason to ruin a good car by fitting coils would you?
 
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Just chuck new bits and hope by looks of it, and charge for the diagnosis :eek:

Another way to look at it is
Lack of maintenance - just the last one :D

It’s true other half of my decision was based on me knowing I didn’t understand EAS, dint know none of you either.
 
That readout shows there is no communication EASunlock to vehicle. All faults are spurious.
Exactly, only it was working but 10 secs prior and had done on multiple occasions before. It wouldn't reconnect and I could not find a way to reset it. I was also doing this all on my own, so yes there is a limitation on how much I know and can do. If you are offering to come and help assist in fixing it, I will take you up on it!!!
 
So can we say basically you didn't know what you were doing so you converted to coils. :D:D
If you like. It's a bit of unfair and unhelpful stance to take. However I think if that is the case, it demonstrates it is not that simple or easy to fix in all circumstances. And while I'm not claiming to be an expert or Einstein. I don't think I'm a complete luddite either. I'm a Software Tester/Engineer by profession (past 16 years). Used to build and overhaul light aircraft engines/props, grew up on a farm. And a car/4x4/Land Rover enthusiast. Have done lots of engine swaps, designed the suspension on my 88 leafer and completely rebuilt it, built a coiler 88 and modified plenty of other vehicles.

Hobbies include building RC planes & cars and amateur electronics such as building LED torches.

i.e. I'm not a complete numpty doing mechanical or electrical things on cars.

And as said above. I still own the vehicle. If you are willing to come and show me how quick, cheap and easy it is to fix. Then I am 100% willing and receptive to it. :)
 
It is if the person doing the maintenance did not have a clue what he was doing. Would a dealer fitter rebuild a compressor or fit a new one? Would a dealer fitter rebuild the valve block or fit a new one. New airbags about £240.00 if they last ten years that's £24.00 a year for bags. Say £50.00 for compressor kit and valve block kit. And they last ten years that's £5.00 a year. So we are up to £29.00 a year and a bit of labour do it yourself no cost and you learn something. I would say that is not a reason to ruin a good car by fitting coils would you?
Trouble is, when you buy a vehicle, you can't back date the maintenance costs. You have to pay for them there and then. I know manmaths can work wonders to justify buying something. But the hard reality is, if you need to spend £500+ on spares. There is no way you retrospectfully charge it back to previous years or owners.
 
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