P38A Should you lift a Range Rover? Air/Coil?

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300bhp/ton said:
Don't get me wrong, I'm not against the EAS. But I spent nearly 2 years of being unable to use the vehicle properly because of it. And I still don't really know what was wrong with it. The cost to try and replace bits vs the actual value of the vehicle or a coil kit, just didn't stack up. And there was no guarantee that it would fix it, just allow further diagnosis.
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Oh trust me I know..Im in deep..at this point 9 out of 10 of us are upside down in this "investment". You gotta be in it for the love of the vehicle.. I just live with the quirks of the EAS system now. I try not to track down every single oddity. Still worth it to me personally.

300bhp/ton said:
BTW, you must have fun if your EAS drops to the bumps stops with 33" tyres. Or have you extended the bump stops? This became a point of paranoia for myself. On standard wheels/tyres you can drive on the bump stops, although it is bloody horrid. With my MT's, which are a lot smaller than your 33's. It would sit on the rear tyres, and thusly want to damage and rip the tread blocks when you moved it. The front also made the tyre sit inside the arch to the point it would limit steering. With 33's I can't fathom how you'd be able to move it more than 20 foot without damaging stuff if you are on the bump stops.
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Definitely made custom bumpstops. I made sure that I can crawl home even if I have no bags. Steering would certainly be and has been an issue on tight winding trails where articulation,and line choice matters. But I have still always made it home..


300bhp/ton said:
Also, when you say reseat a bag in about 5 secs. What do you mean?
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Every time I have seen them pop off, it is the bottom axle piece getting separated from the bottom portion of the bag. Sometimes the bags are ripped and deteriorated and just irreparable. But if it only blows the bead off the bag like when you get crossed up and one corner hangs a little to far..maybe..Those types of blow outs are super easy to repair. All you would truly need is the factory jack and something to remove the top R clip on the air spring. Physically reseating the bag would take only 5 seconds once it is out.

300bhp/ton said:
As for the ride off road. In normal ride height it was ok, not as compliant as my pickup Land Rover, but not bad. This was fine on lanes and across the fields. But the standard ride height gives even worse approach/breakover/departure angles. So isn't practical for more difficult terrain. I know you could use/fab a spacer to give increased ride height and the same bag pressures as the standard ride height. Which may well be a winner, although doing this means your lower ride heights would also be higher. So maybe negating some of the benefits anyway.

The EAS is just fundamentally flawed in that the lower the vehicle rides the softer the springs are and the higher it rides they get massively stiffer. You ideally want it the other way around. Which is exactly what Arnott Gen 3's address.
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I agree with everything you are saying which is why I made spacers for my EAS and used the Gen3 springs. My EAS doesnt really know it is lifted and the spring rates are what Arnott meant them to be. All the heights are indeed taller across the board however I still retain a choice of heights and also the huge advantage of self leveling. One of my biggest gripes with coils was driving the 100 miles, swaying about on the freeway, just to get to the trails where I will be really utilizing the height of my rig. EAS makes the journey tolerable on the freeway and twisties vs the coils at one static height.

Also the only reason why I could personally justify the Gen3's is because they are lifetime replacement warranty for customers in the US. If not for the warranty. I dont think I would've pulled the trigger either.

33in tire - Copy.jpgSZVYE5756 - Copy.JPG

Dont have any really good pictures with the tires yet.. Mostly out there having fun and testing the limits..
 
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300bhp/ton said:
I’m not in Portugal or France. The UK government happily recognise such things. It is even documented on their site under “radically altered vehicles”.

Although arguably I haven’t changed to suspension system. It is still a live axle radius arm setup. I have simply changed the spring type. So likely wouldn’t even be deemed as altered in the eyes of Government.
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No you just raised the centre of gravity making it more liable to tip over in a high speed evasive maneuver. What do you think the motorway setting on the EAS is for?
 
I personally have no problem with coils, if insurance companies are happy with it. I just wouldnt do it as I dont green lane apart from the odd field or rough track. That was a superb write up and I agree with your reasoning. I do wonder about headlight levelling tho particularly with fancy LED lights
 
The EAS is the headlight leveling so if the car is loaded up or has a trailer you might blind oncoming traffic.

Which isn't ideal.

I considered a Coil conversion :eek: however the £350 britpart and over £400 terrafirma price tag put me off :D

And the Soft controlled ride of EAS is what appeals ;)
 
Henry_b said:
The EAS is the headlight leveling so if the car is loaded up or has a trailer you might blind oncoming traffic.

Which isn't ideal.

I considered a Coil conversion :eek: however the £350 britpart and over £400 terrafirma price tag put me off :D

And the Soft controlled ride of EAS is what appeals ;)
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EAS ride wasn’t soft though. Not unless in the lowered motorway mode.

As said I’m not anti the EAS. But I totalled up needing to spend £500-600 on it just to continue diagnosing what was wrong with it. This wouldn’t actually have fixed it. It would have needed more spending on it.

And I posted extensively on here asking for help. But nothing was forthcoming with a solution to address the specific issues. Just generic advice which sadly didn’t help solve the problems.

It’s all academic now. But the main issues were:
-blowing/rupturing the air line to tank
-constantly sitting 3” higher on the passenger side at all levels
-refusing to move to the programmed in values with the software, ie trying to get it to sit level. Adjust one side up and the other down in the software. Result it wouldn’t do this and would still sit high one side
-final straw it threw a wobbly and would no longer communicate with the laptop and EAS software and I couldn’t find a way to reset it
 
wammers said:
No you just raised the centre of gravity making it more liable to tip over in a high speed evasive maneuver. What do you think the motorway setting on the EAS is for?
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So what you are saying is. Anything that doesn’t lower for motorway speeds is unsafe and illegal? Sorry RRC, Defender, D1 and D2 owners. Seems you shouldn’t be driving on the roads. At least not at motorway speeds.

This applies to all those Jeeps and pickup trucks that are out there ;)
 
TO 300BHP/TON ...In answer to your statements no 19 & no 23 , in defence to wammers ,I personally having read all your comments / statements think your very wide of the mark in many many ways regarding alterations and modifications . I refer you to read the dailymail 23 january 2009 .I would like you to say to the FOUR children who died " QUOTE" post 23 " nobody cares ???? im very sure those poor children cared as did their mother and other siblings , thats the problem with amateur alterations and modifications …. he went to jail for his "alterations" etc and banned for 5 years . personally the sentence was too too lenient . so before you try shouting out nobody cares I suggest you leave your alterations alone because you don't reall know the laws and you don't really know how to do any research , regards MOZZ.
 
300bhp/ton said:
EAS ride wasn’t soft though. Not unless in the lowered motorway mode.

As said I’m not anti the EAS. But I totalled up needing to spend £500-600 on it just to continue diagnosing what was wrong with it. This wouldn’t actually have fixed it. It would have needed more spending on it.

And I posted extensively on here asking for help. But nothing was forthcoming with a solution to address the specific issues. Just generic advice which sadly didn’t help solve the problems.

It’s all academic now. But the main issues were:
-blowing/rupturing the air line to tank
-constantly sitting 3” higher on the passenger side at all levels
-refusing to move to the programmed in values with the software, ie trying to get it to sit level. Adjust one side up and the other down in the software. Result it wouldn’t do this and would still sit high one side
-final straw it threw a wobbly and would no longer communicate with the laptop and EAS software and I couldn’t find a way to reset it
Click to expand...

Calibrating the EAS requires the use of blocks and the free RSW software, not a black art.

I replaced all 4 air springs plus a new compressor and a valvebody rebuild for less than a coil conversion, calibration cost me a £10 cable and a broom handle..

The inability to adjust heights was more than likely the wrong cable not allowing Comms.
 
mozz smith said:
TO 300BHP/TON ...In answer to your statements no 19 & no 23 , in defence to wammers ,I personally having read all your comments / statements think your very wide of the mark in many many ways regarding alterations and modifications . I refer you to read the dailymail 23 january 2009 .I would like you to say to the FOUR children who died " QUOTE" post 23 " nobody cares ???? im very sure those poor children cared as did their mother and other siblings , thats the problem with amateur alterations and modifications …. he went to jail for his "alterations" etc and banned for 5 years . personally the sentence was too too lenient . so before you try shouting out nobody cares I suggest you leave your alterations alone because you don't reall know the laws and you don't really know how to do any research , regards MOZZ.
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You are completely missing the point. Wammers is only concerned with bigger wheels impacting the speedo, such as those tyres will make it read 0.7% wrong. They go on and on and on about it, in every thread with any vehicle with bigger than stock tyres. Show me a single instance where this has been a legal issue with anyone?

As for the Jan 2009 incident. What has that to do with the price of biscuits. FFS try a little context. And if you'd bothered to even read the article, he was sentenced for "dangerous driving", and then cites the condition of the vehicle i.e. lack of maintenance. With a bracket breaking. Although I suspect some of this is hyperbole as they also cite worn brake drums and shoes as defects. Which I suspect is likely true for 50% of the Land Rovers on the planet! The only mention of modifications is the nonsense by the Daily Mail...

Attempting to compare me directly to that incident is insulting and cites you are a bit of tool if I'm being honest. You should be rather ashamed of yourself.
 
Defective speedometer is an offence under the Construction & Use Regs 1986.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/regulation/35/made
It's one of the offences normally dealt with by issue of a Vehicle Defect Rectification Scheme form - i.e you have 14 days to get the defect rectified or the vehicle scrapped, the form stamped by an MOT station/Scrapyard who will likely charge for the privilege and the form returned to arrive at the address on it within the 14 days.
Unusual offence as only likely to be detected by Police if the driver says his speedometer isn't working when stopped for speeding or an examination after collision assuming in the latter case it's possible.

The big catch-all for modifications is 'dangerous condition'. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga...sheading/using-vehicle-in-dangerous-condition
Which was a large part of the case against the man who was referred to earlier.
You might think the work you have done is excellent but a vehicle examiner may disagree. It can then become a matter in court of who has the higher level of formal qualifications, you or the expert witness(es).
The 'dangerous driving' was in the context of the manner in which the vehicle was being driven and driving it in its condition as noted in his summing up by the Judge.
The judge added: "Not only would it have been blindingly obvious that driving the Land Rover in that condition would be dangerous, but you also drove it in a dangerous manner. You were driving that Land Rover too fast for that road.
 
Henry_b said:
Calibrating the EAS requires the use of blocks and the free RSW software, not a black art.

I replaced all 4 air springs plus a new compressor and a valvebody rebuild for less than a coil conversion, calibration cost me a £10 cable and a broom handle..

The inability to adjust heights was more than likely the wrong cable not allowing Comms.
Click to expand...
Well aren't you a ****ing marvel then ;)


Seriously. I did not need a compressor or valvebody. They were not the issues. The issues are as I describe and clearly not those items.

As for calibrating the EAS. Please do enlighten me. Those blocks must be made of magic if they'd really have fixed the problem.

I assume the blocks are used to lower the ride height to a set point, you then use these values to program it for a give height. And have different blocks for each height. This way you are not relying by eye nor the need for perfectly flat ground.

However the problem I had was, if you put it in say access mode, as it's the lowest one. One side of the vehicle would be way in the air and would NOT lower further, by any means. So how the **** can you calibrate it, when it wouldn't even physically move to the correct heights to be calibrated???

Cable worked fine, then didn't after it threw a hissy fit. Cable came from a well know user on here, so I doubt there was anything wrong with it. Plus why would it suddenly stop working.....

As said, I posted extensively on here, with lots of pics and some vids. I believe you even replied to the threads.
 
Ratae said:
Defective speedometer is an offence under the Construction & Use Regs 1986.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/regulation/35/made
It's one of the offences normally dealt with by issue of a Vehicle Defect Rectification Scheme form - i.e you have 14 days to get the defect rectified or the vehicle scrapped, the form stamped by an MOT station/Scrapyard who will likely charge for the privilege and the form returned to arrive at the address on it within the 14 days.
Unusual offence as only likely to be detected by Police if the driver says his speedometer isn't working when stopped for speeding or an examination after collision assuming in the latter case it's possible.

The big catch-all for modifications is 'dangerous condition'. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga...sheading/using-vehicle-in-dangerous-condition
Which was a large part of the case against the man who was referred to earlier.
You might think the work you have done is excellent but a vehicle examiner may disagree. It can then become a matter in court of who has the higher level of formal qualifications, you or the expert witness(es).
The 'dangerous driving' was in the context of the manner in which the vehicle was being driven and driving it in its condition as noted in his summing up by the Judge.
The judge added: "Not only would it have been blindingly obvious that driving the Land Rover in that condition would be dangerous, but you also drove it in a dangerous manner. You were driving that Land Rover too fast for that road.
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Kit is sold by Bearmach. They are the experts, not me. Why the **** are you making it out as though I have completely made it all up?? Do you people not read good ??????

Speedo is not defective. It reads 100% accurately thank you.
 
If the cable is correct and you have comms you either manually depressurise the airbags via the FREE Rsw software and make it drop on to the calibration blocks.
You get the listed heights from the sensors in such and such position and write that as the desired height
The easiest way is to put the suspension on high, jack it up a bit more one jack on the front crossmember just in front of the radiator, the other one under the towbar and put your blocks in, starting with the highest. Release the jacks, then poke the rocker on the dash for access height. so it drops down and sits on the blocks. Open the door to inhibit it. Go to the Heights tab in the software and click, Get Sensor Heights, make a note of the readings for each corner. Go to the Calibrate tab, click Read All and you'll see two sets of numbers. Top ones are what it is programmed to now and the bottom set of numbers will show the same numbers. Change the bottom set to what you have just noted down and click Write. If you then click on Read All again, you'll see that the top set, the programmed heights, will have changed to what you have just input in the bottom set.

Jack up, take your blocks out, fit the next set "Standard" and do the same thing for each height setting. You can only change one height at a time, you can't amend more than one set of numbers and then Write the whole lot. The software will try to always put the car back to standard height so make sure it is sitting on the blocks and the door is open before reading the existing heights.

As i said if it sits stupid high even on access manually depressurise the system using the software and write them in that way..
 
Henry_b said:
If the cable is correct and you have comms you either manually depressurise the airbags via the FREE Rsw software and make it drop on to the calibration blocks.
You get the listed heights from the sensors in such and such position and write that as the desired height
The easiest way is to put the suspension on high, jack it up a bit more one jack on the front crossmember just in front of the radiator, the other one under the towbar and put your blocks in, starting with the highest. Release the jacks, then poke the rocker on the dash for access height. so it drops down and sits on the blocks. Open the door to inhibit it. Go to the Heights tab in the software and click, Get Sensor Heights, make a note of the readings for each corner. Go to the Calibrate tab, click Read All and you'll see two sets of numbers. Top ones are what it is programmed to now and the bottom set of numbers will show the same numbers. Change the bottom set to what you have just noted down and click Write. If you then click on Read All again, you'll see that the top set, the programmed heights, will have changed to what you have just input in the bottom set.

Jack up, take your blocks out, fit the next set "Standard" and do the same thing for each height setting. You can only change one height at a time, you can't amend more than one set of numbers and then Write the whole lot. The software will try to always put the car back to standard height so make sure it is sitting on the blocks and the door is open before reading the existing heights.

As i said if it sits stupid high even on access manually depressurise the system using the software and write them in that way..
Click to expand...
I dimly recall his issues and we were going in circles trying to work out WTF was going on.
I don't think he had any comms. It could be the cable or a connector or maybe the delay timer. Either way, it wasn't responding.
 
Grrrrrr said:
I dimly recall his issues and we were going in circles trying to work out WTF was going on.
I don't think he had any comms. It could be the cable or a connector or maybe the delay timer. Either way, it wasn't responding.
Click to expand...
I've got £30 worth of useless wires, it wasn't until Datatek pointed me in the right direction that I got the right cable.. ;)

It could be the cable, or sometimes corrosion in the OBD port.

Sometimes the computer anorl.
 
Doesn't the extra insurance cost of coils offset any perceived saving in running/ maintenance cost ? I imagine my insurer having a field day with me if I said that i'd done this to my RR - at the very least you will be limited by the number of insurers who quote for modified vehicles. The difference between a coiled P38 and RRC/ Defender etc, is the manufacturer has actually got them through testing/ certification on coils.

The original post was very educational though, and well written - so thanks for that (not meant sarcastically)
 
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