L322 RR Vogue Mk3 to buy or not to buy? Trans failsafe problem

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Unless you bought it with the faults declared i believe you still have some recourse.
The problem with the GM box is the valve block wears, lowers the pressure on the TC lock up clutch causing it to fail pumping debris in to the transmission causing the rebuild. The TC is replaced, trasnmission reconditioned and if the valve block issue is not addressed the TC LUC will last a while but the problem hasn't been addressed. Bemble or Saint will explain it better than me, I am only recalling their skill.
It could be cooler and pipes but i wouldn't think they would fail if already replaced.
You could drain the transmission oil and look for glitter but i would be taking it back.
i would ring the seller, tell them its failed immediately and you would like a refund.
Or join the club i joined whereby my suspension failed on my way home to kent from North Yorks and then plough money into it until its right, I paid £6k for an 04 3 years ago and now its pretty sorted but not without faults and i am probably £5k in repairs if i look hard enough, well not that hard...
 
norseman said:
That's the trouble with modern cars, I can visualise the day when they will become disposable items, despite their high initial purchase price, as repair costs rise to the point that the vehicle becomes a financial write-off - which will no doubt please both the manufacturer & tree-huggers alike :(
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IMHO the day in question arrived some time ago. Unless you can do repairs yourself.
 
First thing is to check fluid and level....the 'state' of the fluid can give indication of box quality.

The fact it happened when you were pushing it, or on a hill makes me suspect it is an overheat warning it should come up as TRANSMISS'N OVERHEAT it will then only shift up to say 3rd...but still go down to 2nd and 1st....

If it stayed in the one gear and when pulling away, it was still in 3rd...then that is Transmission Failsafe and the message is TRANS FAILSFAE PROG...this will need diagnostics to investigate.....the fact there are no faults in the ECU memory means it is more likely an overheat issue.

The only message centre message that has STOP in it is for Engine Oil Pressure..... and that is STOP!ENGINE OILPRESS
 
Saint.V8 said:
First thing is to check fluid and level....the 'state' of the fluid can give indication of box quality.

The fact it happened when you were pushing it, or on a hill makes me suspect it is an overheat warning it should come up as TRANSMISS'N OVERHEAT it will then only shift up to say 3rd...but still go down to 2nd and 1st....

If it stayed in the one gear and when pulling away, it was still in 3rd...then that is Transmission Failsafe and the message is TRANS FAILSFAE PROG...this will need diagnostics to investigate.....the fact there are no faults in the ECU memory means it is more likely an overheat issue.

The only message centre message that has STOP in it is for Engine Oil Pressure..... and that is STOP!ENGINE OILPRESS
Click to expand...

Hi Saint.V8, thank you for sharing your knowledge.

The gears did go down but not up, if i slowed down enough, i could feel it ahifting down, but the problem was when trying to go over 40-50mph it would just not shift up. I drove it from Preston to London making only one short stop and had no problems at all. I was just being gentle with the gas pedal when i had to slow down under 40mph for any reason. I did also drove around town yesterday without any issues.

Today, I will take it to a garage for them to check the fluid as advised.

STOP! ENGINE OIL PRESS relate to this problem or is a different engine problem? I did check the engine oil and it was fine.
 
NicMax said:
Hi Saint.V8, thank you for sharing your knowledge.

The gears did go down but not up, if i slowed down enough, i could feel it ahifting down, but the problem was when trying to go over 40-50mph it would just not shift up. I drove it from Preston to London making only one short stop and had no problems at all. I was just being gentle with the gas pedal when i had to slow down under 40mph for any reason. I did also drove around town yesterday without any issues.

Today, I will take it to a garage for them to check the fluid as advised.

STOP! ENGINE OIL PRESS relate to this problem or is a different engine problem? I did check the engine oil and it was fine.
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Oil pressure wouldn't give the symptoms you have.

If it changed down gears but not up gears past say 3rd....then the box has gone into its cooling stratergy....it holds the lower gears so the pump will turn faster and push more fluid through the cooler to aid in cooling the fluid down.

First things would be to check the fluid level, then I'd change the fluid, filter and flush through or replace the cooler...maybe with a view to a larger fluid cooler.

Gearbox oil is temp sensitive and once it overheats a few times it is broken down to a point it is next to useless and requires changing.

The GM5 box is a major weak point on the Diesel L322, so treat it with respect and kid gloves, do a fluid change once a year and you'll delay what is unfortunatly inevitable.......only true cure is to rebuild the box, fit a new torque converter and fit a Sonnax valve block.....not cheap, but it will future proof the box!
 
I have removed the gearbox oil cooler, I found the front part of it to be full of dirt, leaves etc. I took it out, cleaned it and tested it with an air compressor, it seems to be fine and not blocked at all. Also the radiator fluit is fine.

I found a garage that deals mainly with range rovers near to where i am, he plugged his machine and said that its the transfer box, as its showing a fault with the 5th gear. He is charging me £380 to supply and fit a second hand transfer box.

I dont know if I should go ahead with this or not.
 
NicMax said:
I have removed the gearbox oil cooler, I found the front part of it to be full of dirt, leaves etc. I took it out, cleaned it and tested it with an air compressor, it seems to be fine and not blocked at all. Also the radiator fluit is fine.

I found a garage that deals mainly with range rovers near to where i am, he plugged his machine and said that its the transfer box, as its showing a fault with the 5th gear. He is charging me £380 to supply and fit a second hand transfer box.

I dont know if I should go ahead with this or not.
Click to expand...
Hmmmmm....Bemble/RRPhil will know better than me, but the Transfer Box ECU won't give a flying monkeys what 5th Gear is doing....or what the gearbox as a whole is doing....as far as I know!

If the Transfer Box gets a fault, it will throw a Tans Failsafe Prog warning and limp home in 3rd gear....it won't change up or down from there....

Yours does change down but not up past say 3rd gear....this indicates the cooling stratergy is in force.....also the fact the fluid cooler was mildly blocked could give a clue....

HC, yes, a clogged rad on the 4.4 V8's will cause issue, but I don't knbow the full ins and outs of the TD6 cooling system to comment yes or no....

I'd still advocate changing the fluid and filter, just to check the condition of it above all else....also, as I said above, once the fluid overheats, it breaks down and gets next to useless as a hydraulic fluid, cooling fluid and lubricating fluid....
 
Could transfer box mean shift motor as that is the only thing in the TB that I could think would influence any other fault but I don't know if shift motor would produce cooling strategy to initiate, if I had to guess I would say no.
The shift motor is an easy change on its own but possibly a waste of time. Oil filter and oil plus labour is probably £300, £400 for a transfer box if you take that route, we are rapidly heading towards our first grand and we are only a day in to new ownership, I'd be talking to the seller, just my opinion but might get a partial guilty refund .

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rig...car-i-bought-has-a-problem-what-are-my-rights
 
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Transfer box won't give a stuff about the gearbox....only thing it will complain about is loss of signal or info on the CANbus, it does need various parameters from the gearbox, but it will only sit back and laugh if the gearbox gives a fault and not log the fault on the gearboxes behalf...

I find it strange this garage says the TB ECU is reporting a 5th Gear fault....

Bemble/RRPhil will confirm but as far as I know the TB won't care.
 
Thanks again for the info provided.

I have contacted the seller, but he says that there was absolutely nothing wrong with the car and specially the gearbox or ralated. So, to be honest, I dont think that he will even make a small refund, let alone take the car back.

I have told the guy that I will comeback to him regarding the transfer box, as what I really want to do first is to do gearbox service. I will ask the guy to see if he can do it, otherwise I will just get the a gearbox service kit from ebay and find a garage to do it for me, as I dont have the jacks/ramp facility to do it myself.
 
when i work on mine on the drive i drive up onto four railway sleepers i bought cheap of ebay and put the car in off road mode which gives plenty of room to work on it.
Unless you have a big budget to spare I would start to learn how to fix it. I hadn't worked on a car for years and with the help of this forum i have done many jobs including removing and rebuilding the transmission.
If you are keeping the car, above all else you need some good diagnostics and my favourite is the allcomms, it will pay for itself in weeks.
Then all you need is the library of Saint's 'How to' section and you will be away.

IMG_3480.JPG
 
holidaychicken said:
http://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic37578.html
Bit of info on the competition site regarding overheat and blocked rad and also temp sensor in transmission
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Thank you very much! I have taken your advice and decided to do the gearbox fluid and filter myself. I have found Saint's gearbox service how to and was actually just finishing reading it. I am buying the railway sleepers tomorrow and just trying to find out if my RR has the GM 5L40 gearbox, so that I can order the kit.

Is there anyway on how to be certain?

Is this kit the one I need...

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=172278300188&globalID=EBAY-GB

Many thanks for your continuous help!
 
NicMax said:
Thank you very much! I have taken your advice and decided to do the gearbox fluid and filter myself. I have found Saint's gearbox service how to and was actually just finishing reading it. I am buying the railway sleepers tomorrow and just trying to find out if my RR has the GM 5L40 gearbox, so that I can order the kit.

Is there anyway on how to be certain?

Is this kit the one I need...

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=172278300188&globalID=EBAY-GB

Many thanks for your continuous help!
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If yours is a TD6 built between 2002 and 2005 then it will be the GM5L40E gearbox.

My How To was for the ZF box which is slifhtly different but the process is similar.

The GM5 filter is actually part of the sump pan if I remeber rightly.
 
holidaychicken said:
The fence panel sprayer works for filling the oil, it is a must in my opinion, it's Saint's design, I'll put up a photo of mine later if there isn't a photo of Saint's.
Get your self a copy of rave manual as well., see link below.
http://www.landroverresource.com/
Click to expand...

Are the newer Rangies in RAVE? I thought you had to use that pay-per-use internet thingy?
 
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