Range Rover P38 Sluggish / no power

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how do you know when the tank pump is iffy - is it try it just in case or is there a definite answer - i notice the previous owner had put a non return valve in the fuel line so is there a previous pump issue with the car -

Going back to the core reason for this - if the car is sluggish and depends on the turbo to get it through the day why does it come in "after its needed" by the time the turbo kicks in the car is up to some sort of speed and then the throttle is back off because your up someones Ars** . ive had shoguns /pageros /pathfinders they all come in early on when needed, this seems like the old astra diesel before the turbo version where it would have to wind on and on and on - why have a turbo that is waiting in the wings ...you need to be able to pull off a junction when its your turn - not have to wait till there's no one else on the road.. sorry perhaps there's an answer..
 
Mines got/had exactly the same problem. The guys at my local independent suggested it would possibly be one of two thing. Either the tank pump or one of the injectors. The cheaper of the two jobs was the tank pump so we agreed to do that first. When they took the pump out it was absolutely shot to bits, they connected it up to power source and there was no output so happy days we thought. Tank went back in and there was a marked improvement but its still not quite right.
The vehicle has subsequently been put on a test book and its showing a fault with one of the injectors. Apparently when this injector shows a fault it somehow retards the timing back slightly and this is what the power loss is. I'm just waiting on the quote to get this job done.
I know nothing about these vehicles but I'm learning quite quickly. The independent I have been using have never made me think they were trying to pull the wool over my eyes but I always have that niggling in the back of my mind.
Does the bit about the injector sound logical to all of you in the know??
Dave
 
bit late now i know but go with a V8 petrol, has its faults but simple compared to diesels by the sounds of it. An RR with a diesel is as pointless as an F430 TDi...
 
so the pump ??? if faulty is it likely to not give enough fuel through - eg starving the engine like tickling the throttle instead of proper levels - until one day finally failing -- if so why am i able do full top speed - don,t compute - wouldn't it cut back through lack of fuel at high speed - it always messes up on load when you ask it to do some work like pulling of from standing still - put your foot on the gas throttle travels most of the way down then the engine catches up quite later - like starting off in a manual car in too high a gear..all my other auto boxes have pulled off lively not necessarily fast but able to cope with their own weight. its just that give me a minute i'll be with you soon feeling ...nice car but always start off down hill .. i feel this is going to take a few quid to sort out by elimination..
ref injectors ??
 
softop2011 said:
so the pump ??? if faulty is it likely to not give enough fuel through - eg starving the engine like tickling the throttle instead of proper levels - until one day finally failing -- if so why am i able do full top speed - don,t compute - wouldn't it cut back through lack of fuel at high speed - it always messes up on load when you ask it to do some work like pulling of from standing still - put your foot on the gas throttle travels most of the way down then the engine catches up quite later - like starting off in a manual car in too high a gear..all my other auto boxes have pulled off lively not necessarily fast but able to cope with their own weight. its just that give me a minute i'll be with you soon feeling ...nice car but always start off down hill .. i feel this is going to take a few quid to sort out by elimination..
ref injectors ??
Click to expand...

There is only one injector that can be diagnosed as a problem and that is number four. It's the only one the diagnostics can see.
 
As it has an egr valve I would guess its a late rangie and would have an air flow meter.
Turbo should come in at just under 2000rpm and yes I know this as I have proven this with a
Boost pressure guage. The symptoms you describe are of a failed air flow meter will be flat as a pancake with no grunt or top end. Try disconnecting it and see if it is any different low end will still be crap but may see some improvement. Can be cleaned but use the correct maf cleaner not electrical cleaner or brake cleaner as these can leave a film over the sensor and therefore will not work correctly. Don't scrimp on the replacement part cheap non genuine copys tend not to work very well or last.
 
I agree with Nathan that it could very well be the MAF, sounds just like an Omega I had years ago (same engine). as for the in tank pump, that will give you starting problems when down to 1/4 of a tank but not any performance problems unless its restricting the fuel flow some how. I changed my pump and did not even know it was not working until I let the tank run low one day. Hope you get it sorted soon.
Davie
 
thanks all - i must say its great to get all this response to what must be a common problem to this particular model with the 2.5 engine ( guy who had this before me had it from new and only his his wife drove it ,had loads spent through its life on running repairs service every couple of miles as per the book etc - every bill and detail are in the history - the car is virtually as new if that's possible - that's why i bought it - the RR specialist garage told me trouble with this is its never had a good thrashing in its life needs a blow out ( i am trying but it wont go).
Any way filters just arrived will do them today still thinking about a £40 diagnostic visit to add to the already spent £120 on the rear air bags, £600 on the mot fail ,£300 on the brake pipes ....just waiting for the next niggle one day this car will be as good as it looks ..thanks all please keep the answers coming...:confused:
 
softop2011 said:
thanks all - i must say its great to get all this response to what must be a common problem to this particular model with the 2.5 engine ( guy who had this before me had it from new and only his his wife drove it ,had loads spent through its life on running repairs service every couple of miles as per the book etc - every bill and detail are in the history - the car is virtually as new if that's possible - that's why i bought it - the RR specialist garage told me trouble with this is its never had a good thrashing in its life needs a blow out ( i am trying but it wont go).
Any way filters just arrived will do them today still thinking about a £40 diagnostic visit to add to the already spent £120 on the rear air bags, £600 on the mot fail ,£300 on the brake pipes ....just waiting for the next niggle one day this car will be as good as it looks ..thanks all please keep the answers coming...:confused:
Click to expand...

Put the £40 towards the cost of a Nanocom if you plan to keep the car.
 
Changed the filters no difference - so took advice from one of your comments :):):):) --- unplugged the maf unit WOW :eek::eek::eek::eek: pulled like a train -thank god for this site - hopefully the maf unit will put it right ..thanks all
 
softop2011 said:
Changed the filters no difference - so took advice from one of your comments :):):):) --- unplugged the maf unit WOW :eek::eek::eek::eek: pulled like a train -thank god for this site - hopefully the maf unit will put it right ..thanks all
Click to expand...

This is an EGR malfunction, the only thing the MAF does in this case is measure airflow for controlling EGR operation.
 
got to disagree with you wammers. it is a faulty air flow meter seen it thousands of times. very easy to prove leave the vac pipe of the egr so disable it even better blank it.
a word of advice only fit oem air flow meters do not fit cheap pattern parts as they are junk!!!
 
ok Lads - yesterday looked at the maf unit give it a wipe - looked at the egr valve gunged up took it off really good clean checked by hand that it was not ceased in any way seemed ok - fired up after the clean test drive no difference .
today changed fuel and air filters - test drive - no difference - then i thought unplug the maf unit - test drive everything kicked off went well - not a rocket but totally better pulled fine .... so if the maf unit only looks after the egr why not dump the sensor and the egr and buy a blank kit for the egr off e bay .. :confused:

eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace
 
Datatek said:
You sure about that Tony? I was under the impression that the MAF affected fuelling to meet the newer emissions requirements and for the CAT:confused:
Click to expand...

There is no MAF on the none EGR engines just an inlet air temp sensor. MAF measures air flow for the EGR. The EGR causes the engine to meet emissions, by recirculating exhaust gas with partially unburned fuel, back into the inlet manifold before the engine reaches operating temp. There is no Cat as such just a particle filter that gathers soot at lower rpms and when engine is cold, the unit does not get hot enough at lower rpms to burn anything off it just collects the particles. When car is run at over 40 mph for a sustained period the cat part of it then gets hot enough to burn off the particles. This can be a big problem if you only do stop start stuff around town, as the filter never gets hot enough to burn off the soot and it can get clogged up.
 
softop2011 said:
ok Lads - yesterday looked at the maf unit give it a wipe - looked at the egr valve gunged up took it off really good clean checked by hand that it was not ceased in any way seemed ok - fired up after the clean test drive no difference .
today changed fuel and air filters - test drive - no difference - then i thought unplug the maf unit - test drive everything kicked off went well - not a rocket but totally better pulled fine .... so if the maf unit only looks after the egr why not dump the sensor and the egr and buy a blank kit for the egr off e bay .. :confused:

eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace
Click to expand...


Be careful if the EU get their way it will soon be illegal to run without EGR if it was fitted as standard.
 
thanks all - what happens if i ignore the maf unit and pull the pipe of the egr - this will in effect disable the egr - stopping all the crap recirculating - i ran a pajero for a few years with a castrated egr ( someone took it off and blanked it ) that had no ill effects .. looks like anything from £60 to £160 for a maf unit ..

anyone had bad news from blanking the egr or taking it away with a kit - sorry to go on a bit but it does relate to my end goal of getting performance right... how bomb proof are the german powerhouses.. will probably buy a new maf unit but will it bee talking to itself - the one on there certainly was wasting its time or having ill effect - stressing me and the engine:eek:
 
softop2011 said:
thanks all - what happens if i ignore the maf unit and pull the pipe of the egr - this will in effect disable the egr - stopping all the crap recirculating - i ran a pajero for a few years with a castrated egr ( someone took it off and blanked it ) that had no ill effects .. looks like anything from £60 to £160 for a maf unit ..

anyone had bad news from blanking the egr or taking it away with a kit - sorry to go on a bit but it does relate to my end goal of getting performance right... how bomb proof are the german powerhouses.. will probably buy a new maf unit but will it bee talking to itself - the one on there certainly was wasting its time or having ill effect - stressing me and the engine:eek:
Click to expand...

Think some have blocked the EGR with a penny in the feed pipe. Undetectable.
 
softop2011 said:
thanks all - what happens if i ignore the maf unit and pull the pipe of the egr - this will in effect disable the egr - stopping all the crap recirculating - i ran a pajero for a few years with a castrated egr ( someone took it off and blanked it ) that had no ill effects .. looks like anything from £60 to £160 for a maf unit ..

anyone had bad news from blanking the egr or taking it away with a kit - sorry to go on a bit but it does relate to my end goal of getting performance right... how bomb proof are the german powerhouses.. will probably buy a new maf unit but will it bee talking to itself - the one on there certainly was wasting its time or having ill effect - stressing me and the engine:eek:
Click to expand...

You can block the EGR with a coin, no need to buy a kit, or you can disable the vacuum pump that operates it. Lots of folks have done it and the early P38's had no EGR. Personally I still think that the MAF affects fuelling to give closer control for emissions rather than just affecting the EGR. If it's for the EGR it's an expensive way of doing it, the MAP sensor or a modified version of it could perhaps have done the same job since the EGR must be closed when the turbo is presurizing the manifold or half the boost would be going the wrong way down the EGR pipe to the exhaust:eek: which is probably why yours wasn't pulling too well.
 
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