P38A Problem with cylinder №3 and coolant fluid

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Bexer

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Hi all.

I have 4,0 p38 - and there is a problem with engine. So, one day I found what coolant fluid level is going down very fast - with white smoke from exhaust system (But interior heater was ok). I decided, that it's a problem with head gasket and removed left head - and found normal gasket, but 3-rd cylinder was full of liquid (the piston was on 2/3 of highest position and all free space was filled by water, more than 100ml of liquid)

After what, I made a pressure test of head and there is no leakage in it. Also I inspected a liner Intently - it is on it's place (no step) and has no visible cracks. There is no trace of water on engine plane, metal ring on gasket (frame of cylinder) is also ok. And I doubt, that so much amount of water can leak from invisible microcracks (I'm going to make a pressure test of engine block to be completely sure). And also strange, that liquid, which I removed from cooling system was clean - no trace of exhaust gases in it.

And I think, that if the intake manifold has a heating lines, may be one if it is broken and fluid from it goes to cylinder? May be someone saw something like this or have a diagram of coolant lines inside manifold? Thanks in advance
 
Not sure exactly where the coolant runs but the throttle body is prone to leaking but I wouldn't expect that much. It really does sound like a crack in the block behind the liner. Does the combustion chamber look like it's been steam cleaned?
 
Bexer said:
Hi all.

I have 4,0 p38 - and there is a problem with engine. So, one day I found what coolant fluid level is going down very fast - with white smoke from exhaust system (But interior heater was ok). I decided, that it's a problem with head gasket and removed left head - and found normal gasket, but 3-rd cylinder was full of liquid (the piston was on 2/3 of highest position and all free space was filled by water, more than 100ml of liquid)

After what, I made a pressure test of head and there is no leakage in it. Also I inspected a liner Intently - it is on it's place (no step) and has no visible cracks. There is no trace of water on engine plane, metal ring on gasket (frame of cylinder) is also ok. And I doubt, that so much amount of water can leak from invisible microcracks (I'm going to make a pressure test of engine block to be completely sure). And also strange, that liquid, which I removed from cooling system was clean - no trace of exhaust gases in it.

And I think, that if the intake manifold has a heating lines, may be one if it is broken and fluid from it goes to cylinder? May be someone saw something like this or have a diagram of coolant lines inside manifold? Thanks in advance
Click to expand...
Coolant could have filled the cylinder when you lifted the head. Check the spark plugs and see which are steam cleaned, that will tell you which cylinder/s the coolant was leaking into
 
myfirstl322 said:
Measure all piston protrusions in relation to block deck, hopefully no bent rods.
Click to expand...

Liner protrusion is ok - there is no steps - flatness is good, and there was no coolant liquid on the top of liner, because the metal part of head gasket (frame of cylinder) was dry and without any traces of water on it and on head gasket.

Wazzajnr said:
Not sure exactly where the coolant runs but the throttle body is prone to leaking but I wouldn't expect that much. It really does sound like a crack in the block behind the liner. Does the combustion chamber look like it's been steam cleaned?
Click to expand...

Yes, this combustion chamber was steam cleaned, but the question is how this water turned up to the cylinder

tomcat59alan said:
Coolant could have filled the cylinder when you lifted the head. Check the spark plugs and see which are steam cleaned, that will tell you which cylinder/s the coolant was leaking into
Click to expand...
It's not very likely - because the other cylinders was absolutely dry and there was a little bit of coolant liquid scurf inside cylinder - which means that it was filled with water few days (While I was taking head out, the water was inside). Also this cylinder was steam cleaned - only one on this side
 
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From what I understand (I've never had one apart so only from research) the head gasket sits outside the periphery of the liner so any water getting past the block wall will come up the side of the liner and get into the cylinder. That is the primary reason for top hat liners as far as I can see. The liner may not have slipped but it could still be leaking from behind it.
Not sure if there's any cooling channels in the inlet manifold that could leak in there.
Like I said, I'm no expert but have read up a lot about it before I bought mine.
 
Wazzajnr said:
From what I understand (I've never had one apart so only from research) the head gasket sits outside the periphery of the liner so any water getting past the block wall will come up the side of the liner and get into the cylinder. That is the primary reason for top hat liners as far as I can see. The liner may not have slipped but it could still be leaking from behind it.
Not sure if there's any cooling channels in the inlet manifold that could leak in there.
Like I said, I'm no expert but have read up a lot about it before I bought mine.
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Not exactly - I forgot to write, that I have T-type liners, with much broader hat than factory default liners - and the head gasket metal ring is on the top of liner. Like this example:
liner.png
 
OK then, if you're top hatted and gasket looks OK and your head tests OK, then I've no idea. If it were the throttle body it'd be the same in all cylinders. The only other explanation is a cracked liner.
 
Wazzajnr said:
OK then, if you're top hatted and gasket looks OK and your head tests OK, then I've no idea. If it were the throttle body it'd be the same in all cylinders. The only other explanation is a cracked liner.
Click to expand...
I think about this - but the main discrepancy is that 100 ml of coolant liquid, passed through invisible microcrack after engine stop (I inspected cylinder walls and found only honing - no visible defects\cracks\scratches\etc).

I'm going to make a pressure test of engine block and pressure test of intake manifold - it will help to find the problem exactly
 
It's amazing how much water can pass a tiny crack under pressure. Don't forget, the crack may open up more when hot.
There are water ways in the inlet manifold I think. I've just searched "rover v8 coolant oath" and there are lots of images, not necessarily range rover but will be similar
 
The coolant will get into the cylinder after the engine is shut down as it's still under pressure. With it being a middle cylinder my bet would be a cracked block behind the liner. My top hat block had a similar issue. I suspect mine cracked between the head bolt hole & cylinder.
 
martynv8 said:
The coolant will get into the cylinder after the engine is shut down as it's still under pressure. With it being a middle cylinder my bet would be a cracked block behind the liner. My top hat block had a similar issue. I suspect mine cracked between the head bolt hole & cylinder.
Click to expand...
But if it is a crack behind liner, why there are no traces of water on head gasket, liner hat and on the deck?

Also It was strange, that there was only one fault in engine - coolant liquid in combustion area, but interior heater worked fine, no engine overheating, coolant liquid was clean (no signs of exhaust gases), pressure in coolant system was normal (no pressure drop through expansion tank cap) - and also I made pressure check of that cylinder and it is in good trim. Summary of all that means, that coolant liquid comes from intake, so I'm going to reassemble engine with another intake manifold and I think that the problem will be solved.
 
Bexer said:
But if it is a crack behind liner, why there are no traces of water on head gasket, liner hat and on the deck?

Also It was strange, that there was only one fault in engine - coolant liquid in combustion area, but interior heater worked fine, no engine overheating, coolant liquid was clean (no signs of exhaust gases), pressure in coolant system was normal (no pressure drop through expansion tank cap) - and also I made pressure check of that cylinder and it is in good trim. Summary of all that means, that coolant liquid comes from intake, so I'm going to reassemble engine with another intake manifold and I think that the problem will be solved.
Click to expand...

If you don't drain the block before removing heads coolant can get into the cylinders. But it would be in more than just one. If it has been smoking, if all you say is correct ,one may think the coolant is being sucked in via the inlet. That is what i would have gone for before removing the heads.
 
wammers said:
If you don't drain the block before removing heads coolant can get into the cylinders. But it would be in more than just one. If it has been smoking, if all you say is correct ,one may think the coolant is being sucked in via the inlet. That is what i would have gone for before removing the heads.
Click to expand...
I've already posted that but it was dismissed. I would have checked the spark plugs
 
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