P38A P38 possibly up for grabs?

Wazzajnr said:

Electric cars simply aren't practical for the vast majority of users as there is simply no way to fill them with 400 miles of "fuel" quickly as there is with ice vehicles.
On 3phase 400 volts, you'd be running at around 3000 amps for an hour to fill a 200kw battery. The cable would be simply too big and expensive. If you up the voltage then you need seriously thick insulation and there are much bigger safety issues.
What we really need is for manufacturers to start making plug in hybrids that can do 80-100 miles on pure electric but drive on the ice alone for longer journeys.
Then we need to link the charging network to clean energy only and have charging points at least 50% of public parking spaces.

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Not only are electric cars impractical, but the batteries have relative short lives before the already limited range starts to fall. The batteries are currently difficult or impossible to recycle, mining Lithium and Cobalt is a dirty, energy consuming polluting business. There is not enough power station capacity to support all electric cars, last winter the UK was so close to the limit that electricity had to be imported from France. Generating electricity is inefficient, much is produced using external combustion, there are also losses in the distribution system, transformer losses stepping up the generation voltage to ultra high tension, more losses transforming it down to medium voltage and down again to 440v for local distribution, line losses are typically 6% but can be much more in humid conditions. Then for electric cars there are the losses involved in voltage conversion to DC for charging the batteries and reconverting to AC to drive the motors. I would add that in an all electric car you are effectively sat in a Faraday cage surrounded by strong magnetic fields which could certainly be harmful in the long term.

Bix said:

Hybrids will work best when they are all setup so the electric motors only drive the wheels and then a small onboard ICE to charge the batteries. Anything else just doesn't pay for itself.

My biggest concern with LPG is the Gov't saying they won't throw huge fuel duty on it. They said the same about diesel way back when, then when people started changing to it in bulk, suddenly fuel duty arrived. Once the LPG uptake is big enough, they'll tax the **** out of it, know that too many people are invested in it to walk away.

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Coz it's "green" they'll have hell to justify it to the comsumers, most who convert to LPG know a bit about it and taxing it wouldn't go down well..

Taxing EV won't go down too well either, watch and see..

I guarantee it.

Henry_b said:

Coz it's "green" they'll have hell to justify it to the comsumers, most who convert to LPG know a bit about it and taxing it wouldn't go down well..

Taxing EV won't go down too well either, watch and see..

I guarantee it.

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Diesel was the "green" alternative to petrol (although for decades we've known it wasn't if you don't use CO2 as the only measure of pollution), until it wasn't. They'll find a new reason to justify the tax for the new green alternatives.

And Brits being Brits, we'll just grab our ankles and bite down hard.

Bix said:

Diesel was the "green" alternative to petrol (although for decades we've known it wasn't if you don't use CO2 as the only measure of pollution), until it wasn't. They'll find a new reason to justify the tax for the new green alternatives.

And Brits being Brits, we'll just grab our ankles and bite down hard.

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Yep derv was know as dirty prolly forever but the "clean" was a lie., LPG has always been a Green alternative since it appeared..

Gov can't really arge with that.. My emissions meter doesn't lie either. as i said above my V8 on LPG was so low the tech thought the machine was brokem

Bix said:

Diesel was the "green" alternative to petrol (although for decades we've known it wasn't if you don't use CO2 as the only measure of pollution), until it wasn't. They'll find a new reason to justify the tax for the new green alternatives.

And Brits being Brits, we'll just grab our ankles and bite down hard.

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The latest diesels running ADDBLUE and SCR are cleaner than petrol per mile for all pollutants..

Datatek said:

The latest diesels running ADDBLUE and SCR are cleaner than petrol per mile for all pollutants..

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Does that include drive cycles that include dpf regeneration etc?

kermit_rr said:

Does that include drive cycles that include dpf regeneration etc?

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A garage down the road from me bought the kit to clean DPFs. They had to stop using it because so much **** pumped out they were gassing the unit next door!

Grrrrrr said:

A garage down the road from me bought the kit to clean DPFs. They had to stop using it because so much **** pumped out they were gassing the unit next door!

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The best way to clean a DPF is to not drive around towns/cities in a diesel. They need to get hot to function, just like cats, they need around 15 minutes of driving under load to get up to working temp, short drives don't allow them to get up to get there. Nor does stop start traffic.

But shhhh, what shows a drop in harmful gasses in lab conditions always shows real world results too, right?

imagine the pollution caused by all those batteries being produced, needing changing every few years or what happens in a crash when it goes everywhere.

When I first started driving I was weird for using diesel, then it was saviour to the planet, now I’m evil again all judgements by same ‘people’ , if that’s what they are.

Due to this - It’s my understanding that eco concerns are used to rationalise the tax to the majority of people that really care, and the others must then follow. If LPG doesn’t harm the environment it won’t change anything, except for what they rationalise it for.
BBC rationalising Tv license (a tax) when no one uses it in future, with Netflix and ITV managing without, is prime example. They’ll still need the money they’ll just change the rules to suit. Same for diesel/petrol/LPG/elec cars even the air you breathe one day, bl**dy Orwellian nightmare!