Other Oscilloscopes

lol!
I have no idea about any of this whatsoever, but I vaguely remember years and years ago, someone once saying you could modify an old television to make it into an oscilloscope.
(I'll get my tin hat!)

Hmmm!
https://hackaday.com/2017/04/06/hacking-a-vintage-tv-into-an-oscilloscope/

sierrafery said:

For engine troubleshooting a basic tool is enough. I have an old russian bench oscilloscope with signal generator which suits my needs but if i'll decide to buy one for automotive troubleshooting depending on how much i'd like to spend i have two versions:
1. cheap and esy to use for basic troubleshooting(for a Td5 is enough) https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/223965399138?chn=ps
2. not so cheap for complex troubleshooting(CAN-bus) https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hantek-2D82AUTO-Kit-Automotive-Diagnostic-Oscilloscope-60-99MHz-30-000wfm-s-AB/223772168741?_trkparms=aid=1110012&algo=SPLICE.SOIPOST&ao=1&asc=20200420083544&meid=ab9e2990db58407bbe7a65a27c7c1be1&pid=100008&rk=1&rkt=3&sd=223740596816&itm=223772168741&pmt=1&noa=0&pg=2047675&algv=PromotedSellersOtherItemsV2&brand=Hantek&_trksid=p2047675.c100008.m2219

here's a good video

Click to expand...

hi @sierrafery

many thks for that video and very interesting

Have a 60 amp clamp , but didn’t realise when he said the starter motor on initial start up can pull approx 600amps so would need the 600 amp clamp to do a relative compression test

Once again , very grateful

That so called "automotive" oscilloscopes are mostly the same with any ''normal'' one... some of them which are dedicated for automotive use can have some extra software mods but that's viewable in the price ... for example nr 1 i posted appears ''automotive" in that link but ''normal'' in this one: https://www.makerfabs.com/dso-ds211-1-channel-open-hardware-mini-oscilloscope.html (the same tool but it can be used for troubleshooting) while nr 2 has some special automotive functions added for CAN'bus signals and those are clearely mentioned. I can't tell you exactly what's the difference other than that for automotive use should have an up to minimum 100KHz bandwidth... I used my old russian one with success for everything i needed and that's definitely not ''automotive'' tool

Found some interesting information

The specialized automotive oscilloscope is also called automotive lab scope, engine analyser or motor-tester.

When checking circuits, power supplies and grounding, the signals often change too rapidly to check with a Multimeter. Often there are no trouble codes saved in the ECU but the problem exists because a trouble code is only recorded when there is a broken or short to the positive or the negative power supply or the sensor/actuator is faulty.

However, if a sensor/actuator has stopped working in some mid position, there is no DTC recorded. In such case the automobile diagnostic oscilloscope is your most needed instrument. It‘s an irreplaceable tool, when you have to observe output signals from inductive sensors, slow-changing analogue signals, starter current waveforms, charging currents and etc. It can visualize the ignition spark process to help isolate intermittent issues.

It’s important to mention that almost every digital oscilloscope can show the ignition waveform on one cylinder but only a specialized automotive diagnostic oscilloscope will show all cylinders simultaneously (depending on how many channels you use).

There are several very important things explained below, you should consider before choosing an automotive oscilloscope:

1. It’s not a good idea to have the oscilloscope and the scan tool in one unit.

• The first and main reason is you can’t use both the oscilloscope and the scan tool at once;
• Second and no less important, oscilloscope in a scan tool means that both units share a same Printed Circuit Board, same power supply and quite possibly this type of oscilloscope will not perform as a good automotive one.

2. User interface recommendations for an automotive diagnostic oscilloscope?

• Avoid the oscilloscopes originally intended for scientific and industrial applications. Such scopes require lots of time on learning and training. Not to mention they usually do not have any pre-sets or are not capable of automotive measurements without adapters that usually are not included.

• Is there an automotive pre-sets data base included? Pre-sets automatically adjusts the vertical scales, time base, the trigger position and etc. for easy setup and operation. Does the oscilloscope have the capability to add new pre-sets and edit them?

• Can the user interface allow the user to add new or edit various already present input probes for high voltage measurements, ignition pick-ups, current clamps, pressure transducers, temperature sensors, etc.?

• Is there a built-in pattern waveform library and is it possible to add new custom waveforms?
• Is it possible to visualize the ignition spark process and show the cylinders displayed next to each other, or under one another in a “parade” style?
• Is there a possibility to overlay a 720-degree frame on the current waveform? A full 720 degrees of crankshaft rotation measurement ruler is very useful for observing of all engine cycles.
• Is there an opportunity to share the saved real waveforms with other oscilloscope users in universal output format?
Version 1.0/2017-04-20 - 1 - www.autoditex.com

Selecting an Automotive Oscilloscope

3. PC vs. handheld scope
If you have to use the oscilloscope out in the field, a handheld oscilloscope might be the right choice. Their main advantage is that they can also offer the performance of bench oscilloscopes in a mobile and rugged form factor.

Handheld scopes often are easier to setup because of the fewer connections compared to the PC-based scopes. Real-time embedded system in the handheld oscilloscopes is often a big advantage because there is no operating system which can cause problems.

However, PC based scopes have larger screens and often allow you to save more measurement data on the PC hard drive. Often the oscilloscopes, in which the received data is mainly processed in the PC, have a very large memory depth.

In order to avoid transferring high voltages through the grounds which can cause a failure of the PC used or to damage the ECUs in the car, it’s good to make sure that there is no galvanic connection between the PC and the PC oscilloscope which not all oscilloscopes have.

4. How many channels?
Oscilloscopes have one channel, two-channel, four-channel and up to ten-channel varieties. When deciding which one to choose, you should consider the number of signals to be displayed.
If we want to perform a quick diagnosis to determine the presence of a signal and whether it is within the normal range, one channel is sufficient.
Two channels are enough for camshaft/crankshaft correlation and reading signals from sensors, looking at injector and coil waveforms, watching thermistor voltage outputs, looking at throttle position sensor outputs and etc.
Oscilloscopes with four independently isolated channels are generally used when simultaneous view of the ignition circuit is needed or dealing with a typical crank no start condition where looking at the major inputs and outputs together helps to determine where the fault is quickly.
5. Important specifications
Most automotive technicians find it difficult to read and understand scope specifications and then match them to the test requirements.
- Bandwidth
Bandwidth is a specification that defines the highest frequency electrical signal that the scope can display. To ensure an accurate representation of the waveform, you have to make sure that the oscilloscope bandwidth is higher than the maximum frequency of the signal you need to measure. But notice that unnecessarily high bandwidth will result in noise or unwanted signals showing up on the oscilloscope screen. It’s good if the scope bandwidth is matched to the measurement task. High-bandwidth scopes can be quite expensive, so you may have to compromise somewhat on this. Bandwidth refers to the frequency that the input signal is attenuated by 3dB. This means that signals cannot be accurately captured near the oscilloscope’s bandwidth. So, the oscilloscope bandwidth has to be about two times larger than the maximum measured frequency.
- Sampling rate
Sample rate is the number of times per second that the oscilloscope samples the circuit under test. Most oscilloscopes have two different sampling rates or modes: real-time sampling and equivalent- time sampling (repetitive) which are specified in mega or giga samples per second (MS/s or GS/s). When choosing an oscilloscope, make sure you know the type of sampling the specification applies to. For automotive use the equivalent-time sampling is not recommended because it’s useful for periodic signals only and so not suitable. With an insufficient sample rate, you will not be able to reveal the true amplitude and duration of any given pulse. A good choice would be around 20 Million Samples Per Second for almost all diagnostic applications.
Version 1.0/2017-04-20 - 2 - www.autoditex.com

Selecting an Automotive Oscilloscope DITEX
- Memory depth
The size of the buffer memory where the captured data are stored in the oscilloscope is known as the memory depth. An oscilloscope with deep memory allows users to keep a higher sample rate for a longer period of time. This is most obvious when zooming in on a signal. A limited memory depth will prevent the oscilloscope from capturing waveform accurately since the sample points are placed too far apart from each other.
A major disadvantage of the very big memory depth is that the data is too large and you’ll have to scan through it manually to find the event you are looking for.
Another downside of the excess memory depth is that under certain conditions it slows the oscilloscope and/or there would be more dead time. This could lead to necessity of using too powerful and expensive PC or tablet.
- Resolution
This is the ability of the oscilloscope to resolve small voltages and it depends on several oscilloscope parameters:
-The number of bits of the embedded analog to digital converters. Usually vertical resolution of 8 bits is quite sufficient for all automotive applications;
-The ADC’s (Analog to Digital Converter) reference voltage; -Input attenuator circuit;
-Type of the input signal preamplifier if it exists.
7. Probes and Input ranges
When choosing an oscilloscope, look for a manufacturer which offers a complete set of accessories for extending the input ranges and the application of their device.
To perform high voltage or current signals measurements such as: injectors, primary and secondary ignition and etc., you have to extend the input range of the oscilloscope with a suitable input probe. There are 10:1, 20:1 attenuators, capacitive and inductive pick-up clamps, current clamps, AC coupling adapters and etc. It’s very important that the input probes should at least match, if not exceed, the bandwidth of the scope.
8. Summary and general recommendations
Some manufacturers will give you a free demonstration PC software program, which allows you to see and test almost all functions and menus before you actually buy the oscilloscope! You can always try and compare oscilloscopes from different manufacturers to make the right choice for your application. Make sure that you have asked the following questions:
- What’s included in the oscilloscope package set. Which cables, accessories, probes are included in the set and which are available to be purchased in the future?
- What software does the tool come with? What updates? What applications does the software cover? Because of changes in vehicle design and capabilities, how often is the software updated? Are the software updates paid or free?
- Who is the seller and do they have the required qualification and experience to provide support or is it just a vendor that sells equipment and only offers whatever manufacture support is available?
- If a hardware repair is needed during the warranty period as well as and the after-warranty period, where it is performed and is there such a possibility?
All of these are things to consider when purchasing an automotive oscilloscope. Your best friend when purchasing an oscilloscope is you. Not everyone needs the same thing. Make this a personal choice based on your needs and skill level.
Version 1.0/2017-04-20 - 3 - www.autoditex.com

sierrafery said:

That so called "automotive" oscilloscopes are mostly the same with any ''normal'' one... some of them which are dedicated for automotive use can have some extra software mods but that's viewable in the price ... for example nr 1 i posted appears ''automotive" in that link but ''normal'' in this one: https://www.makerfabs.com/dso-ds211-1-channel-open-hardware-mini-oscilloscope.html (the same tool but it can be used for troubleshooting) while nr 2 has some special automotive functions added for CAN'bus signals and those are clearely mentioned. I can't tell you exactly what's the difference other than that for automotive use should have an up to minimum 100KHz bandwidth... I used my old russian one with success for everything i needed and that's definitely not ''automotive'' tool

Click to expand...

many thks , funny enough posts just crossed as found some info and looks like the difference is having presets on the automotive one to automatically change them for u , therefore not having to mess around setting it up

also see Hantek do a Bluetooth module that uses ur iPad as the screen instead of a laptop, alas hasn’t got he automotive presets which is making a lot more sense now when it’s mentioned

really appreciate the fantastic advice, helping enormously

thank u

I would say like most diag tools, the skill comes in setting them up, and more imprtantly understanding what they are trying to tell you.

lynall said:

I would say like most diag tools, the skill comes in setting them up, and more imprtantly understanding what they are trying to tell you.

Click to expand...

how very true and didn’t realise the automotive ones have presets which from reading makes them in theory easier

but as u rightly say it’s the understanding of them , apologises using analogy of boilers again but when I used analysers etc it’s deciphering the results accurately

IMO, PC-based is the way to go as the scope's real functionality is in its ability to do post-processing on the data captures, both in real-time and offline. The scope interface between the DUT and the PC is pretty much run-of-the-mill amplifier, ADC and DAC circuits whereas the "intelligence" is nowadays all done in software. While a laptop scope does not provide the mobility of an integrated scope unit, it can be expanded, upgraded or changed without replacing the scope hardware. Also, any captures can be replayed, analysed and even imported to other software tools without the need for the scope. Your post #25 is spot on (multi-channels + analogue and digital inputs are a must) but if I may suggest, try to get one with Math features incorporated in software for both real-time and offline measurements. This will greatly expand the scope's capabilities as for instance, you will be able correlate data and derive graphs such as when you have differential inputs as in the case of CAN bus Hi & Lo.

Many thks , this is one I’ve been looking at , the Hantek 1008c , used via a laptop

http://www.hantek.com/en/ProductDetail_13170.html


Primary Ignition (Voltage)
Primary Ignition?current?
Primary Ignition?Voltage& Current?
Primary Ignition (Crankshaft Senser)
Primary Ignition&SecondaryIgnition
Secondary Secondary Ignition Distributor Type (Plug Lead)
Secondary Ignition Distributor Type (King Lead)
Secondary DIS (Positive-fired)
Secondary DIS or CPC (Negative-fired)?
Secondary Coil Output Diagnosis
Secondary Ignition&Primary Ignition
Sensors Air Flow Meter Air Flow Meter (Hot Wire)
Air Flow Meter (Air Vane)
Air FlowSensor (BOSCH Diesel)
Air Intake PressureSensor (BOSCH Diesel)
Camshaft Camshaft (Inductive)
Camshaft (AC Excited)
Camshaft (Hall Effect)
Camshaft (BOSCH Common Rail Diesel)
Crankshaft Crankshaft Inductive Running
Crankshaft Inductive Cranking
Crankshaft Hall Effect
Crankshaft Sensor &Primary Ignition
Distributor Distributor Pick-up (Hall Effect)
Distributor Inductive Pick-up Cranking
Distributor Inductive Pick-up Running
Lambda Sensors Lambda Sensor Titania
Lambda Sensor Zirconia
Lambda Sensor Zirconia Pre & Post cat
Throttle Position Throttle Position Potentiometer
Throttle Position Switch
Throttle Pedal Switch (Bosch Diesel)
ABS Digital Speed Sensor
ABS Analog Speed Sensor
Coolant Temperature (5V)
Coolant Temperature (GM/Vauxhall Simtec
Crash Sensor
MAP Analog
MAP Digital
Hall Effect Road Speed Sensor
Accelerator Pedal (Bosch Diesel)
Bus Diagnosis CAN Bus CAN Bus Data View
CAN Bus Signal Integrity
CAN Bus LH Long Capture
LIN Bus LIN Bus
Engine Petrol Single-point Injector (Voltage)
Single-point Injector (Current)
Multi-point Injector (Voltage)
Multi-point Injector (Current)
Injector Voltage & Current
Injector Current & Primary Ignition
Diesel Common Rail Diesel (Current)
Injector Bosch CDi 3 (Current)
Injector Bosch Diesel (Idling)
Injector Bosch Diesel (Accelerating)
Diesel Glow Plugs
Electronic Fuel Pump
Carbon Canister Solenoid Valve
ERG Recirculation Solenoid Valve
Stepper Motor Example 1
Stepper Motor Example 2
Idle Speed Control Valve (Rotary)
Idle Speed Control Valve (Electromagmetic)
Throttle Servomotor (Idling)
Throttle Servomotor (Accelerating)
Bosch CDi3 Quantity Control Valve
Bosch CDi3 Pressure Regulator Valve
Variable-Speed Cooling Fan On
Variable-Speed Cooling Fan Off
Variable Camshaft Valve Timing
Startup & Charge Charging Circuits Charging Circuits Current/Voltage
Charging Circuits Current/Voltage Starting 24V
Charging Circuits Current/Voltage Idling 24V
Charging Circuits Alternator AC Ripple/Diode Diagnosis
Relative Compression Petrol
Relative Compression Diesel
Starting Voltage Drop
General Oscilloscope Model Hantek1008C
Analog Channel 8
Input Impedance Resistance: 1M?
Input Sensitivity 10mV/div to 5V/div
Input Coupling DC
Resolution 12 bits
Memory Depth 4K
Max. Input 400V (DC+AC Peak)
Real-Time Sampling Rate 2.4MSa/s
Time BaseRange 1ns/div to 20000s/div(1-2-5sequences)
Time Base Precision ±50ppm
Trigger Source CH1, CH2,CH3,CH4, CH5, CH6,CH7,CH8
Trigger Mode Edge
X-Axis Input CH1
Y-Axis Input CH2
Voltage Measurement Vpp, Vamp, Vmax, Vmin, Vtop, Vmid, Vbase,Vavg, Vrms, Vcrms, Preshoot, Overshoot
Time Measurement Frequency, Period, Rise Time, Fall Time, Positive Width, Negative Width, Duty Cycle
Cursors Measurement Horizontal ,Vertical, Track, Auto Measure Modes
Waveform Signal Process +,- , x,÷, FFT, Invert
Voltage Range 10mV to 5V/div @ x 1 probe
100mV to 50V/div @ x 10 probe
10V to 5000V/div @ x 1000 probe
100V to 50000V/div @ x 10000 probe
200mV to 100V/div @ 20:1
Current Range 100mA to50.0A/div @ CC65(20A)
1000mA to500.0A/div @ CC65(65A)
1A to100.0A/div @ CC650(60A)
1A to200.0A/div @CC1100(100A)
10A to2000.0A/div @CC1100(1100A)
FFT Rectangular, Hanning, Hamming, Blackman Window
Math Addition, subtraction, multiplication, division
Interface USB 2.0(Full Speed)
Power No need extra power supply
Size 190 x 167 x 35 (mm)
Weight 0.63kg
High pressure ignition probe 1
Programmablesignal generator Channel 8CH
Output Level LVTTL
Frequency Range 0-250kHz

NPG said:

IMO, PC-based is the way to go as the scope's real functionality is in its ability to do post-processing on the data captures, both in real-time and offline. The scope interface between the DUT and the PC is pretty much run-of-the-mill amplifier, ADC and DAC circuits whereas the "intelligence" is nowadays all done in software. While a laptop scope does not provide the mobility of an integrated scope unit, it can be expanded, upgraded or changed without replacing the scope hardware. Also, any captures can be replayed, analysed and even imported to other software tools without the need for the scope. Your post #25 is spot on (multi-channels + analogue and digital inputs are a must) but if I may suggest, try to get one with Math features incorporated in software for both real-time and offline measurements. This will greatly expand the scope's capabilities as for instance, you will be able correlate data and derive graphs such as when you have differential inputs as in the case of CAN bus Hi & Lo.

Click to expand...

many thks for the heads up, alas with many of it being so new to me it’s taking time to establish what type of oscilloscope will be suitable , recently finding out the automotive ones have presets

would u be so kind to have a look to see what u think of the Hantek 1008c plse

link is previous post

many thks

The 2 key takeaways for me are available bandwidth, you don't want something capable of GHz because it will be no good for a signal that's only a few Hz. You want something with a suitable sampling frequency

kermit_rr said:

The 2 key takeaways for me are available bandwidth, you don't want something capable of GHz because it will be no good for a signal that's only a few Hz. You want something with a suitable sampling frequency

Click to expand...

hi mate

Are these the details , looked ref the 1008c and has the following ,


Frequency Range 0-250kHz

Voltage range

10mV to 5V/div @ x 1 probe
100mV to 50V/div @ x 10 probe
10V to 5000V/div @ x 1000 probe
100V to 50000V/div @ x 10000 probe
200mV to 100V/div @ 20:1


Current Range

100mA to50.0A/div @ CC65(20A)
1000mA to500.0A/div @ CC65(65A)
1A to100.0A/div @ CC650(60A)
1A to200.0A/div @CC1100(100A)
10A to2000.0A/div @CC1100(1100A)

plus just noticed this , Math Addition, subtraction, multiplication, division

hopefully that’s what u mean

250kHz sounds plenty for automotive, sample rate is how many times a second a reading is taken, also quite important

kermit_rr said:

250kHz sounds plenty for automotive, sample rate is how many times a second a reading is taken, also quite important

Click to expand...

many thks, do keep going back to this 1008c and think it will be an ideal oscilloscope to start off with

do see they also do one for the iPad/ iPhone , Via Bluetooth, but alas doesn’t have any of the automotive presets

with that in mind I don’t have the knowledge in how to set them up so do think getting one that’s been designed for automotive I’m having those presets will be alot better

thks again

It's a good starter kit for the money, no doubt although I would have preferred 4 channels instead of 8 but with a higher spec. Certain important detail seem to be hidden in the presets - so for instance, I could not determine the bandwidth capacity (the stated frequency range is for the signal generator, which is distinct from the scope's input channels). The rule here is to choose a scope that can read 5x the highest frequency component of a signal so you can keep the error rate at around 2%. Also, real time sampling is what you need for non-periodic waves but I'm not so sure about the rate @ 2.4MSa/s. Theoretically, this would be sufficient for frequencies of up to 1Mhz but accuracy will degrade very quickly when reconstructing non-continuous, imperfect signals at this rate. The rule of thumb here is to have a sampling rate of of 5x or even 10x the highest frequency component. Other than that, ensure that the specs are for each channel and not aggregate values across all channels. Meaning that irrespective of how many channels you're using concurrently, the stated sampling rate, triggers, frequency response and frequency range apply equally for each channel.

NPG said:

It's a good starter kit for the money, no doubt although I would have preferred 4 channels instead of 8 but with a higher spec. Certain important detail seem to be hidden in the presets - so for instance, I could not determine the bandwidth capacity (the stated frequency range is for the signal generator, which is distinct from the scope's input channels). The rule here is to choose a scope that can read 5x the highest frequency component of a signal so you can keep the error rate at around 2%. Also, real time sampling is what you need for non-periodic waves but I'm not so sure about the rate @ 2.4MSa/s. Theoretically, this would be sufficient for frequencies of up to 1Mhz but accuracy will degrade very quickly when reconstructing non-continuous, imperfect signals at this rate. The rule of thumb here is to have a sampling rate of of 5x or even 10x the highest frequency component. Other than that, ensure that the specs are for each channel and not aggregate values across all channels. Meaning that irrespective of how many channels you're using concurrently, the stated sampling rate, triggers, frequency response and frequency range apply equally for each channel.

Click to expand...

many thks , very grateful for the feedback

may i ask please , do u think it would be ok for the following tests

Reasoning to get one will be to test , map, maf sensors, height sensors, ie, whilst moving the sensor to watch the graph to ensure a smooth signal, hope that sort of makes sense , alternator , also wondering if it could do canbus

also may I ask a really daft question please, know when testing airbag systems u have to be very careful applying a voltage , just for that what if,

would one of these be a safer option please , or does it still send voltage/ amps down the test leads please

found a video 1 of 2 and it seems the leads could be better

thks so much once again and can’t even begin to say how much I appreciate it

also found the main web site for the 1008c

http://www.hantek.com/en/ProductDetail_13_13170.html

also a download for the manual, however I can seem to get it to unzip via my iPad , alas don’t know if it’s any help trying to decipher if the signal is ok across the 8 x channels and indeed understand where ur coming from

This is the link for the range of automotive oscilloscopes

http://www.hantek.com/en/ProductList_1_13.html

http://www.hantek.com/en/ProductDetail_13_13170.html

Also wouldn’t know what make of leads would be suitable, many thks

Maybe something like these

to add abit more confusion I see there are passive and active leads

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200MHZ-H...146539?hash=item2635c95e2b:g:VSIAAOSwDwleYHhT

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/P1260D-M...604108?hash=item5d9b9b4a4c:g:rIMAAOSw0CteJDbE

gstuart said:

may i ask please , do u think it would be ok for the following tests

Reasoning to get one will be to test , map, maf sensors, height sensors, ie, whilst moving the sensor to watch the graph to ensure a smooth signal, hope that sort of makes sense , alternator , also wondering if it could do canbus

Click to expand...

I imagine it will do all those tasks but the question is how well and how accurate ? On a D2 TD5, there are many forms of signalling from AC & DC Analogue (eg TPS, CPS and Coolant Temp sensor) to Logical (on or off) and Digital PRF & PWM (eg Wastegate Modulator and SLABS). Communications is achieved either through dedicated point-to-point links or on 3 shared data channels (i.e. buses). The fastest channel is the CAN bus which is clocked at 500kHz but only limited to data exchanged between the ECU and auto gearbox TCU. The other 2 are the BCU bus (@ 10.4kHz) and the K-Line (@ 9.6kHz). Post #38 says that the 1008C model is designed with a bandwidth capacity of 100kHz, which effectively means that it can accurately show sine wave amplitudes up to a frequency of 20kHz. For digital signals (like those found on the CAN), the 5x rule still applies as the scope must capture the fundamental 3rd and 5th harmonics in order not to lose data. That said, some scopes use techniques such as linear interpolation "to fill the gaps" so you might still be able to view complete wave forms for signals outside the design envelope and they are usually very accurate, depending on the math functions used internally and the extent of signal irregularity.

So if your vehicle is manual and you don't plan to use the scope on other systems running at higher frequencies, I'd say you'd be OK. Note however that from what I read online, the 1008C model is a discontinued product.