KV6 Freelander, no drive in any gear! 2WD conversion

Hi,
was hoping anyone out there could help share their kind expertise with a problem i'm having with my 2001 KV6 Freelander.
It's been a second car i bought with a failed head gasket so for the past few months mainly during weekends, i've been working on it. About July 2013, i removed the engine + gearbox + IRD attached. Prior to that, it was blowing white smoke due to the failed head gasket but drove well in all gears.
Anyways, come 2 weeks ago, I attached the Jatco auto box to the engine the attached the IRD the the lot. I decided to go 2WD so I removed the IRD output shaft and simply fitted the blanking plug and sealed it, effectively i want to use this Freelander in 2WD mode. Anyways, I've put it all back together, put everything in, connected everything up, and no drive in any gear, nothing at all in forward, no drive in reverse. The engine works and starts fine, just no drive at all in any of the gears. Also, i notice that on the dashboard display, there's no gear indicator display at all. It works on the gear selector display at the centre console, but not on the dash instrument panel display.
Could it be that I removed the propshaft and VCU, and fitted the IRD blanking plate on instead? 1 thing i forgot to add is that when I start it up now, the engine turns over and runs fine, but the instrument displays the following warning lights "TC", "HDC" and another for "ABS", obviously because the propshaft was removed. I notice most other sites on the Internet that comment about propshaft removal for the KV6 state to remove the propshaft but leave the front output shaft of the IRD in place and to not fit the blanking plug. I removed the front output shaft of the ird and fitting the blanking plate instead. Is this the cause of the no drive scenario? When fitting the blanking plug, i hand turned one of the front wheels and the other turned as well in the opposite direction so figuring this seems normal. Any suggestions most welcome.

I forgot to state, while I had the auto gearbox removed, I undid all the bolts to simply re-seal the main casing as well as the end casing. The inhibitor switch works fine as it will only start in N or P. I checked the auto gearbox trunnion nut and that is as tight as it should be and had anyway verified that the gear selector arm is engaging as i selected a gear inside and then went outside and noticed that the arm had changed to the position to reflect the new gear. The transmission oil was drained and new one added per correct procedure in LR RAVE. That is, i drained the old, then opened up the level plug and kept filling till it started to pout out of the level plug, i closed everything up then. I must state that i had inadvertently spilt some transmission fluid at the point where i was filling it and some of it went over those 2 connectors, those 2x twist type connectors. I tried to dry as much as possible. Surely this cant be the problem as it wouldnt start at all if this was the case? Gear changes are reasonably smooth. I saw Hippos' Youtube video on checking the resistances to solenoids and i tested the ones for the twist type connectors. I bought a multi meter it was manual and i had to select the right modes, i notice that the vehicle speed sensor and turbine speed sensor are as per Hippo's limits as published with his video. But for the following, i received "0.02" for most consistently, and for some others 0.01 or 0.03.

shift solenoid valve A - pin 9 to 18 = 0.02
shift solenoid valve B - Pin 10 to 18 = 0.02
Shift solenoid valve C - Pin 11 to 18 = 0.02
low clutch timing solenoid valve - pin 12 to 18 = 0.02
2-4 brake timing solenoid valve - pin 13 to 18 = 0.02
Reduction timing solenoid valve - pin 14 to 18 = 0.03
line pressure duty solenoid valve - pin 15 to 18 = 0.01
2-4 brake duty solenoid valve - pin 16 to 18 = 0.01
Lock up solenoid valve - pin 17 to 18 = 0.02

niccage said:

Hi,
was hoping anyone out there could help share their kind expertise with a problem i'm having with my 2001 KV6 Freelander.
It's been a second car i bought with a failed head gasket so for the past few months mainly during weekends, i've been working on it. About July 2013, i removed the engine + gearbox + IRD attached. Prior to that, it was blowing white smoke due to the failed head gasket but drove well in all gears.
Anyways, come 2 weeks ago, I attached the Jatco auto box to the engine the attached the IRD the the lot. I decided to go 2WD so I removed the IRD output shaft and simply fitted the blanking plug and sealed it, effectively i want to use this Freelander in 2WD mode. Anyways, I've put it all back together, put everything in, connected everything up, and no drive in any gear, nothing at all in forward, no drive in reverse. The engine works and starts fine, just no drive at all in any of the gears. Also, i notice that on the dashboard display, there's no gear indicator display at all. It works on the gear selector display at the centre console, but not on the dash instrument panel display.
Could it be that I removed the propshaft and VCU, and fitted the IRD blanking plate on instead? 1 thing i forgot to add is that when I start it up now, the engine turns over and runs fine, but the instrument displays the following warning lights "TC", "HDC" and another for "ABS", obviously because the propshaft was removed. I notice most other sites on the Internet that comment about propshaft removal for the KV6 state to remove the propshaft but leave the front output shaft of the IRD in place and to not fit the blanking plug. I removed the front output shaft of the ird and fitting the blanking plate instead. Is this the cause of the no drive scenario? When fitting the blanking plug, i hand turned one of the front wheels and the other turned as well in the opposite direction so figuring this seems normal. Any suggestions most welcome.

Click to expand...

None of your problems are due to removing the props/IRD rear pinion.

From the sounds of it the gearbox is not being told to engage a gear. I have no experience of auto boxes - but there was a thread on here recently about why the gear selector lights will not work on the dash - and they're on the same feed as the gearbox listens to.

The 3 Amigos is also not caused by the props/pinion. It will likely be a sensor - or as its sat idle for a bit it could be the modulator.

Not sure with auto freelanders because I haven't worked on one, but normal practise with auto's is to check the auto box fluid with the engine running. Are you sure there is enough fluid in there? May be a daft questions but it's better to get them out the way first

Again, I have never YET split my ird so unfamiliar territory for me but you said you removed the front output shaft, surely you mean the rear?

People normally make there freelander fwd by removing the propshaft, only about 14 bolts!

Edited because I'm a numpty and I read the post wrong

niccage said:

the engine turns over and runs fine, but the instrument displays the following warning lights "TC", "HDC" and another for "ABS"

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The TC and HDC lights should go out after a few seconds - the ABS will only go out once the car starts moving and is up to about 5MPH.

Thinking about it, as you've had the engine and trans out - maybe you have (inadvertantly) disconnected the wiring from the modulator.

If you can hook the car up to a reader it will give you the fault codes for what it thinks is wrong.

No drive is nothing to do with the IRD rear output being removed.
Are you sure you didn't dislodge something in the box to re seal it?
Are you sure the torque converter is located into the box correctly?

I've a rule. If it ain't broken, don't mess with it!!

You will have to go through the entire drive system to find where the drive is being lost.

Kizzeh said:

People normally make there freelander fwd by removing the propshaft, only about 14 bolts!

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True but it could make it a bit easier to get back in the car (as a engine/gearbox/IRD lump) with the rear pinion removed.

Sometimes removing the props only insn't enough. The gears and bearings for the rear pinion can get really shafted and you need to replace them or remove the pinion even if its not driving the rear wheels.

Interesting fault. Yer certainly got yer hands full there.

Am not an eggspurt but some of the things mentioned ring a bell with other faults we've talked about on ere before. There's a lot to look at so easy things first. Follow what nodge ses and try the following to check the ird, ird to auto and parts of the auto are all ok (sort of).

Hippo said:

With the engine oft, chock the rear wheels and put the handbrake on, disconnect the front prop from the IRD and:

With the auto in park (in gear for manuals) lift 1 front wheel and it won't turn. The IRD pinion won't turn when you turn the lifted front wheel. If you put the auto into neutral (neutral on manuals too) the lifted front wheel will now turn and so will the pinion if you turn the lifted front wheel.

If you put the lifted front wheel on the ground and lift the other front wheel the same will happen as above.

If you lift both front wheels and turn 1 the other will turn regardless of the auto being in neutral or park (neutral or in gear for manuals) in the opposite direction. The only difference is the pinion gear will turn if the gearbox is in neutral (doesn't matter if auto or manual). If you sharply turn or quickly slow down the wheel yer turning the pinion will turn more than the wheel yer turning. I assume it's due to the path of least resistance as the power escapes.

If lifting both front and rear wheels on the same side of the Freelander, with the prop/vcu connected, and the engine oft and the auto in park (in gear for manuals) the front wheel won't turn when you turn the rear wheel (assuming the vcu and rear diff work correctly as they should). The rear lifted wheel will only turn slightly which is down to the internal opposition of the vcu. If you do the same test with the auto in neutral (neutral for manuals too) the front wheel will turn in the same direction as the rear wheel.

Note: when I say won't turn, it will turn but only approx 1 inch circumference or a few degrees, as opposed to turning round fully. This is the movement between the gear teeth only.

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Regarding the oil change, kizzeh is right about the engine running. For the Freelander 1 auto the engine should be running when doing the level check, at certain times. A fuller explanation is over ere:

https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/jatco-automatic-gearbox.69336/page-3

The dash not reading the position of the auto is strange, when the led by the gear lever reports correctly. One of the barrel connectors supplies the auto's computer and the LED's by the lever with the current lever position. If the LED's are ok then that means the position switch is reporting correctly, and hopefully the auto's computer is getting the correct signal.

This may sound daft, but have you reconnected the abs sensors after fitting the engine/auto/ird etc? I've seen a situation late last year where the speedo was reading max mph. Both front abs sensors were open circuit. When replacing one of them the speedo fault stopped. Are your sensors connected? You can read the resistance of the abs sensors by disconnecting the little yellow connector and measuring the sensor end using the resistance setting. Look by the battery under the bonnet and by the abs modulator control pump thing for the front connections. It should be about 950 to 1100 ohms if I remember correctly. Again, something easy to check and praps worth while if the 3 amigo's tc/hdc/abs have illuminated on the dash.

The resistance values below look strange. I'm not taking the **** ere.. When measuring the barrel connector did you measure the connector still connected to the gearbox? Also can you take the measurements again but this time see what the wrong resistance range on yer meter says? Pick one for example and tell us the reading on 20, 200 , 2000 ohms.

shift solenoid valve A - pin 9 to 18 = 0.02
shift solenoid valve B - Pin 10 to 18 = 0.02
Shift solenoid valve C - Pin 11 to 18 = 0.02
low clutch timing solenoid valve - pin 12 to 18 = 0.02
2-4 brake timing solenoid valve - pin 13 to 18 = 0.02
Reduction timing solenoid valve - pin 14 to 18 = 0.03
line pressure duty solenoid valve - pin 15 to 18 = 0.01
2-4 brake duty solenoid valve - pin 16 to 18 = 0.01
Lock up solenoid valve - pin 17 to 18 = 0.02

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0.02ohms is very low. I'm wondering if yer range was higher so the display was reading 0.02 K ohms = 20ohms. K is short for 1000.

If the resistance is really 0.02ohms then that's a short circuit. Similar to putting both yer probes together and measuring just the small resistance though the probe leads. The fact that the LED's buy the auto lever read correctly means barrel connector C0244 is ok. The other one is C0243 which carries the connections for the solenoids and sensors. Has the wiring on C0243 connector been caught or trapped on anything?

For those wondering what the resistance check we're talking about is:

Freelander 1 v6 Jatco Auto Gearbox - Measuring the Solenoid and Sensor Resistances

Can you have a look in the L shaped plastic box under the bonnet and see if there's any wires come oft the inner blue connectors, on the auto? Disconnect the power before doing this.

Unfortunately a lot of the above is trial and error. At least it will help to create a datum to work off.

When you resealed the panels on yer auto, was it the side panel in the pic below with blue chalk on the 3 metal strips on the side panel or the front black panel covering the solenoids? Are you sure you only undone the bolts for the panel? Just wondering.


P9171139 HuQYElR

its also easy to remove what you think is the level plug and a whole load of selector linkage becomes detached internally creating no drive...............

niccage said:

the following warning lights "TC", "HDC" and another for "ABS",

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Mean " ECM input failure", check contacts from engine ECU & gearbox ECU.

Could be a fecked ird with only rear wheel drive.......just been having the the same argument with someone who knows better......but as auto box ...I know nothing..Nodge n hippo are the best for this

What colour is the ABS lamp?

mjrimmer said:

Could be a fecked ird with only rear wheel drive.......just been having the the same argument with someone who knows better......but as auto box ...I know nothing..Nodge n hippo are the best for this

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I was thinking the same thing. Hence asking asked him to do the wheel tests. He may only have had rear wheel drive. Taking the prop oft means no drive/movement as the front drive is broke'd. I assume the splines can fail the same on an auto as per a manual.

Hippo I know sweet fa on auto boxes.........you and yer pig is the best on this......but having drive to rear only is normally typical of fecked ird....so new ird and vcu and hour rear diff is ok

Hippo said:

I was thinking the same thing. Hence asking asked him to do the wheel tests. He may only have had rear wheel drive. Taking the prop oft means no drive/movement as the front drive is broke'd. I assume the splines can fail the same on an auto as per a manual.

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Like you, I'd had the same thoughts on the IRD. The spine on the auto box don't fail like those in the PG1 box.
I suspect something has come adrift during the box "re-seal" job!! Personally I'd not have touched the auto box unless it's broke'd, but that's just me.

Nodge68 said:

Personally I'd not have touched it unless it's broke'd, but that's just me.

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Where's the fun if you can't fiddle - it is a Landie.

I'm sure there's a simple fix to this - but it may be bloody hard to find

If the gearbox had engaged a gear and the problem is the IRD you'd have thought there would be some sence that "things were turning" even if it didn't get to the wheels. Is the key to this that the selector lights don't show on the dash?

Hippo said:

One of the barrel connectors supplies the auto's computer and the LED's by the lever with the current lever position. If the LED's are ok then that means the position switch is reporting correctly, and hopefully the auto's computer is getting the correct signal.

Click to expand...

Has the wiring here been connected back up properly?

Got a friend with a code reader? There may be some helpful advice direct from the car

The drive through the IRD to the gearbox is easily checked. Engage park an life 1 front wheel and try turning it. If it fails to turn the the IRD is ok.

The lack of dash gearbox display is a concern that there's some secrete magic working against us. But that will be down to a process of elimination. Drive seems to be linked to the abs, from what I've seen. Or at least physical feedback.

More importantly, does anyone have a hawkeye in the southern hemisphere? We could break the record for landyzone international rescue.

http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f38/freelander-td-4-auto-gears-slipping-help-153965.html?highlight=freelander

http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f38/freelander-gearbox-fluid-level-105027.html?highlight=freelander

The Mad Hat Man said:

http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f38/f...lipping-help-153965.html?highlight=freelander
...

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FT's really helpful. ound: