HELP Locked out

gemsdad said:

ok,all that bother for two little items.but that motor must be controlled by something other than a key,surely?

Click to expand...

It's all controlled by the BECM, but the only way to be absolutely sure it never operates it to remove it IMO. Think corroded connectors etc.

Datatek said:

It's all controlled by the BECM, but the only way to be absolutely sure it never operates it to remove it IMO. Think corroded connectors etc.

Click to expand...

ok,but marty has just offered another solution keith.

Pictures of a latch carcass. The standard Central Locking motor goes in the big gaping hole, and drives the main black gear that you can see in the 4th picture. I used it to replace the motor in a guys latch yesterday - as this latch has microswitch issues, so couldn't just swap the whole latch out.


Here you can see the superlock motor connected into the pawl


This shows where the main central locking motor goes - it has a gear assembly that connects to the main black gear inside the latch


The motor/microswitch housing


Mechanism, without the motors. The superlock pawl is in the red circle.


Without the main drive gear, again superlock pawl is in the red circle.


With the pawl removed - it is basically a hook (as you can see in the next picture) which is driven by the superlock motor into the mechanism to firmly lock it there.


The superlock pawl.

As mentioned - you can just cut/remove the PINK wire from the latch wiring, as this is the wire that drives the superlock motor. It has a common connection on the GREEN wire to the central locking motor. The normal central locking motor is between the GREEN and PURPLE wires - the outstation reverses the polarity to the motor via a double-coil relay the either make the latch lock, or unlock.

**EDIT After more reviewing the mechanism, and from a thread I remembered about on RangeRovers.net: http://www.rangerovers.net/forum/7-...-doors-superlocked-post556337.html#post556337 Starting from that post, there a LOT more information about the mechanism and how superlock works. Something was nagging me so I looked it up.. It appears that the pawl actually STOPS the latch going into superlock mode - and then the superlock motor actually moves the pawl OUT of the way, to allow the central locking motor to drive the latch into superlocked mode.

So forgetting about removing the pawl - the internal way would be to remove the superlock motor. It is soldered in with (as you can probably just see in the third picture) - unsoldering it and removing it completely will stop the pawl from moving and allowing the central locking motor to drive the latch into superlock mode in the first place.

Apologies for the prior incorrect information - I had that 'nagging feeling' that something wasn't quite right after posting - so wanted to go back and double check. The snipping of the pink wire I think is actually the best way (and easiest - saves disassembling the latch at all) - which will stop the superlock motor from actually being driven (same as removing it altogether). And this can be done either before the latch goes in the vehicle, or after it's installed.

Apologies again if anyone had already started going to disembowel a latch!

Hope this helps,
Marty

martyuk said:

Pictures of a latch carcass. The standard Central Locking motor goes in the big gaping hole, and drives the main black gear that you can see in the 4th picture. I used it to replace the motor in a guys latch yesterday - as this latch has microswitch issues, so couldn't just swap the whole latch out.

Here you can see the superlock motor connected into the pawl

This shows where the main central locking motor goes - it has a gear assembly that connects to the main black gear inside the latch

The motor/microswitch housing

Mechanism, without the motors. The superlock pawl is in the red circle.

Without the main drive gear, again superlock pawl is in the red circle.

With the pawl removed - it is basically a hook (as you can see in the next picture) which is driven by the superlock motor into the mechanism to firmly lock it there.

The superlock pawl.

As mentioned - you can just cut/remove the PINK wire from the latch wiring, as this is the wire that drives the superlock motor. It has a common connection on the GREEN wire to the central locking motor. The normal central locking motor is between the GREEN and PURPLE wires - the outstation reverses the polarity to the motor via a double-coil relay the either make the latch lock, or unlock.

The latch obviously has to be out of the vehicle to get in and remove the superlock pawl - but if you're in the process of swapping a latch, then it's easy enough to do before re-installation. I haven't actually done this myself on my vehicle - so it would be wise to test the latch and all it's functions before re-fitting it to the vehicle (I do this anyway after an almost 'oh crap I've just locked myself out' moment) to verify it all works as it should.

If the latch is already installed in the vehicle, then just removing the PINK wire will stop the outstation actually driving the superlock motor. The BECM will still go into superlock mode, but the latch itself won't actually have the pawl engaged - so you should be able to unlock it as normal.

Hope this helps,
Marty

Click to expand...

nice,well done.this should be made a sticky as it will help other p38 owners out.

See my EDIT to the original post... DO NOT remove the Pawl.. it stops the latch from being superlocked - until the superlock motor moves it out of the way.

Apologies if it's already mislead anyone - it is still possible to stop the latch from superlocking by removing the superlock motor, but cutting the pink wire is definitely the easiest!

Marty

Been having more of a play with the latch mechanism on my bench - If it is in superlock mode, then the key rod *should* actually unlock it and move the latch from superlock state back into standard locked mode IF the sill lock on the inside of the door is still in the locked position.

I tried it with the sill lock in the unlocked position and it just jammed the latch up. Putting it back into superlock mode let me then put the sill lock back down and use the key rod to put the lock back into standard lock mode.

I also tried it without the superlock pawl in there, and whilst it would allow it to go all the way into superlock, it also didn't stop if from 'unsuperlocking' either. I think (as was alluded to on the rr.net thread I posted the link to) a lot of superlocking issues probably come from the lack of use the superlock gets. There is a spring clip with holds the whole mechanism into either the 'unlock', 'lock', or 'superlock' modes (what you feel as the 'clunk' when you move the sill lock, or turn the key in the door) and this requires a fair bit of force to actuate it - and needs a lot more force between standard 'lock' and 'superlock'

I'm about to go look at my HEVAC screen, but if I get time later, I will see about making a video of how the latch mechanisms work. Also another tidbit from another rangerovers.net thread - apparently some versions of the Rover MGF used exactly the same door latch, and can be picked up on the likes of ebay for cheaper than a 'Land Rover' branded one...

As I said , remove the motor.

Datatek said:

As I said , remove the motor.

Click to expand...

or just cut the pink wire.

gemsdad said:

or just cut the pink wire.

Click to expand...

Not sure that would not log a fault., removing the motor but leaving it connected would be my preference

Wow Marty.....That is some info and effort you put up there. Really explains what's going on in them lock buggers.....This could be the end of Range Rover lockouts I'm now off to the Bay to see if I can get a joblot of wire cutters

Great info...

Thanks all.

Datatek said:

Not sure that would not log a fault., removing the motor but leaving it connected would be my preference

Click to expand...

The superlock motor is soldered in. To remove the motor, but leave it connected would require de-soldering the motor, soldering additional wires on and re-soldering them to the motor - and attaching it somewhere external to the latch. It's definitely an option that would bypass the superlocking part though.

Another option would be to cut the 2 pegs off the superlock pawl where the motor engages - then the pawl is in place, the motor is in place, and activates when told to, but doesn't actually move the pawl to allow superlocking.

I also don't think you will get any errors if the pink wire is cut - there are no errors logged by the BECM other than if you clear the outstation memory, and it will then try to reconnect to the outstations and give a list of outstations that it didn't get a response from. As far as I know the outstation doesn't monitor the status of the motor for activation. The latch I replaced the motor in the other day, had a completely burnt out central locking motor (not connection at all between the pins - as if the motor wasn't even there) and there were no errors in the BECM, instrument cluster, nothing - just the fact that the latch didn't lock on operation of the remote, or the opposite front door sill lock.

@Landyboots - no problem. The latch that is now in bits was originally missing the plastic actuator for the key switch, and I think one of the microswitches is duff.. now I've pillaged the motor out of it, the best use for it is for other parts/learning more about how they work...

gemsdad said:

can it not be turned of via the becm??

Click to expand...

Datatek said:

Don't think so, I have not seen that option but I'm old and blind so could have missed it

Click to expand...

Just to answer this, yes it can but you will lose alarm and engine immobiliser too. I did it by changing region setting I can't recall if it was to South Africa or Middle East or something. It didn't cause an insurance problem for me but may well do so in the UK.

martyuk said:

The superlock motor is soldered in. To remove the motor, but leave it connected would require de-soldering the motor, soldering additional wires on and re-soldering them to the motor - and attaching it somewhere external to the latch. It's definitely an option that would bypass the superlocking part though.

Another option would be to cut the 2 pegs off the superlock pawl where the motor engages - then the pawl is in place, the motor is in place, and activates when told to, but doesn't actually move the pawl to allow superlocking.

I also don't think you will get any errors if the pink wire is cut - there are no errors logged by the BECM other than if you clear the outstation memory, and it will then try to reconnect to the outstations and give a list of outstations that it didn't get a response from. As far as I know the outstation doesn't monitor the status of the motor for activation. The latch I replaced the motor in the other day, had a completely burnt out central locking motor (not connection at all between the pins - as if the motor wasn't even there) and there were no errors in the BECM, instrument cluster, nothing - just the fact that the latch didn't lock on operation of the remote, or the opposite front door sill lock.

@Landyboots - no problem. The latch that is now in bits was originally missing the plastic actuator for the key switch, and I think one of the microswitches is duff.. now I've pillaged the motor out of it, the best use for it is for other parts/learning more about how they work...

Click to expand...

:5bcheers2::5bhurray: