Head Off

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pos

pos

Well-Known Member
Posts
3,685
Location
West Yorkshire
Hello,

Whilst the sun has been shining today I cracked on with whipping the head off my 200tdi to try and find the cause of the intermittent misfire / rough running problem I have been having. I have a few questions to ask and a few pictures to share. Questions first:

1) There did seem to be some oil / damp in the soot buildup on the head around the exhaust valve of cylinder no.4. Cylinder 4 was also producing much more smoke than the other 3 with the manifold removed. Would this suggest new valve guides and fresh seats considering that I replaced all 8 valve stem oil seals?

2) All 8 cam followers (both the sliders and the rollers) look to be absolutely fine BUT would I be able to see whether or not one of the rollers was oval or does it require an examination with a micrometer?

3) The bores look to be in relatively good shape with the cross hatching still clearly visible. There is however (as you can see in some of the photos below) score marks / polishing up and down the bores. Need I worry about them? There is very little blow-by when the engine is running.

Detailed answers would be greatly appreciated because whilst the engine is in bits, I might as well tackle everything properly.

block1.jpg


block2.jpg


block3.jpg


Thanks a lot and a Happy New Year to all :D

-Tom
 
its best to undo block drain first ,brass 13mm in front of turbo half way up block ,you got any pictures of rollers ?they are hard faced and wear like pitting in lines will show before ovality same with cam youll see the wear,rods often start to punch through brass follower, no 4 could be expected to be the most worn (rings/bore),the most wear occurs just wear the rings reach to the top of bore on passenger side ,none fore and aft and less but some on cam side(when you bore an engine and you take a little out you see a triangle appear on those sides tapering to bottom,)was no 4 cylinder valves more cruudy than the rest showing excessive fueling or excess oil ,you check guides by removing collets spring etc and pushing open a little and feeling side play (lenght ways along head should be least ,across head could be more showing wear and comparitively to each other)exhaust are often worst,measure bores with proper guage if possible across amount worn ,check follower slides the can wear and get a lip top and botom were brass follower runs if worn follower can jam intermitently ,you can get a kit that includes all 3 parts
 
jamesmartin said:
its best to undo block drain first ,brass 13mm in front of turbo half way up block ,you got any pictures of rollers ?they are hard faced and wear like pitting in lines will show before ovality same with cam youll see the wear,rods often start to punch through brass follower, no 4 could be expected to be the most worn (rings/bore),the most wear occurs just wear the rings reach to the top of bore on passenger side ,none fore and aft and less but some on cam side(when you bore an engine and you take a little out you see a triangle appear on those sides tapering to bottom,)was no 4 cylinder valves more cruudy than the rest showing excessive fueling or excess oil ,you check guides by removing collets spring etc and pushing open a little and feeling side play (lenght ways along head should be least ,across head could be more showing wear and comparitively to each other)exhaust are often worst,measure bores with proper guage if possible across amount worn ,check follower slides the can wear and get a lip top and botom were brass follower runs if worn follower can jam intermitently ,you can get a kit that includes all 3 parts
Click to expand...

Hi james,

Thanks for your reply. That all sounds reasonable. What do you think about the scoring of the bores? Is it quite usual or do you think I should consider a rebore? I will take photos of the rollers but they did look to be quite alright, no pitting or signs of surface wear. They will be getting checked with a micrometer this week. The valves all look pretty uniform on the surface of the head but the stems looked to be very cruddy when looking down both the intake and exhaust ports. I will have new valve guides installed as a matter of course - my local machine shop are reasonably priced and they will pressure test the head too.

I have been looking at the followers kits here 200TDI engine parts from Turner Engineering, pistons, bearings etc

Thanks again

-Tom
 
if there good there good you can feel slide for wear as said if okay i wouldnt bother swapping them, scoring depends if its just light ring marks ,which is normal or indicator of pistons picking up on bore at one time ,has been overheated at one time?
 
jamesmartin said:
if there good there good you can feel slide for wear as said if okay i wouldnt bother swapping them, scoring depends if its just light ring marks ,which is normal or indicator of pistons picking up on bore at one time ,has been overheated at one time?
Click to expand...

Okay thank you. I will get a second hands on opinion of the follower assemblies at my local landy specialists throughout the week. The engine has never been allowed to over heat but if I run my finger nail around the bore, I can just about feel one of the score marks. The rest of them are just light polishing.

-Tom
 
saxmanuk said:
Tom, sun? Snow up here mate!
Click to expand...

Seriously!? You're only across the valley. Apparently it was snowing this morning but by the time I had got up it was sunny. It's been alright all day really so i cracked on. Have you done much more with yours yet?
 
Not much, taken off the roof rack, seems to go 5mph faster without it! Gonna paint it black before I put it back on.. Gonna check the timing when I get that bloody wading plug out....wife has had me decorating all the time! Happy new year..
 
saxmanuk said:
Not much, taken off the roof rack, seems to go 5mph faster without it! Gonna paint it black before I put it back on.. Gonna check the timing when I get that bloody wading plug out....wife has had me decorating all the time! Happy new year..
Click to expand...

It just needs something welding to it or a better hit with a hammer and chisel. Typical woman! Happy New Year to you too.
 
I cleaned up the follower assemblies today and found the following. There are two brass slides that have deformed pushrod recesses, one of which has actually buckled the profile of the slide so that it will not slide up and down the slide guide correctly. I expect that these will cause problems:

slide3.jpg


slide1.jpg


slide2.jpg
 
have slides worn much they can allow brass follower to stick intermitently,which cylinders relate to those ,if you look they are marked to show front face for fitting,
 
jamesmartin said:
have slides worn much they can allow brass follower to stick intermitently,which cylinders relate to those ,if you look they are marked to show front face for fitting,
Click to expand...

When moving the brass slide up and down the guide each one tends to catch slightly when the oil hole in the brass slide passes the oil hole in the guide - is this normal? I do not know which cylinders relate to which now but I have ensured that all follower components have stayed together (i.e. roller, slide and guide). The 'F' mark on each slide is in the front facing position.
 
pos said:
When moving the brass slide up and down the guide each one tends to catch slightly when the oil hole in the brass slide passes the oil hole in the guide - is this normal? I do not know which cylinders relate to which now but I have ensured that all follower components have stayed together (i.e. roller, slide and guide). The 'F' mark on each slide is in the front facing position.
Click to expand...
... So you intend to refit the slides in random order with random pushrods sitting in them? :doh::doh::doh:
 
That's a relief!! Got the impression that everything had come out, been put in a box and then randomly replaced!!

Aplogies if I got it wrong!!
 
Oldseadog said:
... So you intend to refit the slides in random order with random pushrods sitting in them? :doh::doh::doh:
Click to expand...

I have kept the slides, rollers and guides together in their units as they came out of the engine but I do not know which one corresponds to which cylinder. I don't see that being too important. The push rods shouldn't really matter either because they will be examined and replaced. Any adjustment will be taken up with the relative adjustment of the valve clearances. I am still wondering whether or not it's worth spending £110 on a set of four new assemblies or just spending ~£15 on the bits that are clearly worn. I want to go the whole hog but do you think it's really necessary?

-Tom
 
Badger said:
would that bent pushrod have caused the damage to the follower you had not long ago?
Click to expand...

Yep and it's more than likely that I hadn't seated a pushrod correctly and then turned the engine over. Two of the sliders have taken a whack or met a dead-stop and one of the pushrods had bent. The only way that that could really happen is if a valve has hit a piston but there are no sings of that which I find quite strange.
 
Last edited:
id check slides carefully for wear as said before they can snag ,bearmach do oem kits cheaper and pattern for a £5,i look at rocker adjuster screws they should all have about the same thread poking above nut if not indicates push rod sat wrong or other issue,unless your keeping engine for 30 more years mixing followers up wont make much difference ,condition is what matters
 
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