Happy Valley Wales

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If you honestly believe that its your right to travel any recognised route without any consequence then you really do live in cloud cookoo land.

After a recent article in one of the LR magazines, one of the local UCRs has been inundated with additional vehicles. This has led to numerous complaints by local residents to the 'large' number of vehicles using this lane.


As a direct result this lane has now been CLOSED by the council. The right to drive as you call it has now been revoked for everyone, not because of damage but purely down to the number of vehicles and perceived nuisance.


Now tell me that large groups dont matter and because you pay your RFL that you can do what you like
 
James R said:
Griff - I am sorry but you have zero right to criticise someone for not stopping in a town and being nice to the locals. This doesn't mean you are respecting them any less by not stopping. The only difference is that you wanted something different out of your holiday than the Protrax people. That's life : deal with it.

Are you saying there is an expectation on the part of the Moroccans that you stop and that this is the cultural difference that I am missing?

"Pussy footing down a mountain piste"? This makes you sound as if you actually disapprove of the off road side of the holiday. You ought to sell your Land Rover on that basis and go off and stop being in denial and join the Green Party. This brand of hypocrisy is not needed. Anywhere.
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I was criticising them for throwing things out of the window for the kids whilst driving past. I didnt stop everywhere, but when i felt like it i did. Thats the problem James, are you saying every one of the 20+ vehicles on the protrax tour wanted to charge around the country from place to place without stopping? thats a bit broad of you. Niche market in my earlier posts spring to mind? I think I have the right "attitude" for a successful overland adventure company.

how does that make me sound disproving of off road activities? wrong end of the stick (again). the offroad part of the trip is 50% the reason i go. The other 50% is to travel and experience a different culture, way of life and way of doing things. I love to travel. I love the freedom of overland vehicle travel, and I use my rover as a tool to do this.

stop trying to twist things to make yourself sound superior. take your money and go to one of the other forums which kiss protrax arse, you wont find any friends here or anyone who agrees with you or your ethics. All your doing is going around and around and around...
 
Dorset VogueSE said:
If you honestly believe that its your right to travel any recognised route without any consequence then you really do live in cloud cookoo land.
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Could you point out any post where I said this?

Another hearsay example without any detail of the cirumstances.
 
James R said:
There were actually 18 Land Rovers in our group overall. Please tell me why it matters if this split into two groups or did it as one big group when :-

(1) Its perfectly legal to drive on these roads.
(2) No damage was caused in the slightest.

This whole thread is unfriendly to other people who were using the trails quite legitimately, safely and carefully and, frankly, I really don't care if you don't like that because it's none of your business.
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here you go James, Just one of many posts where you have repeated yourself regarding legal roads, 18 vehicles etc etc.
 
Griffdowg said:
I was criticising them for throwing things out of the window for the kids whilst driving past. I didnt stop everywhere, but when i felt like it i did. Thats the problem James, are you saying every one of the 20+ vehicles on the protrax tour wanted to charge around the country from place to place without stopping? thats a bit broad of you. Niche market in my earlier posts spring to mind? I think I have the right "attitude" for a successful overland adventure company.

how does that make me sound disproving of off road activities? wrong end of the stick (again). the offroad part of the trip is 50% the reason i go. The other 50% is to travel and experience a different culture, way of life and way of doing things. I love to travel. I love the freedom of overland vehicle travel, and I use my rover as a tool to do this.

stop trying to twist things to make yourself sound superior. take your money and go to one of the other forums which kiss protrax arse, you wont find any friends here or anyone who agrees with you or your ethics. All your doing is going around and around and around...
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Griff - I have twisted nothing. You have accused Protrax of disrespecting the locals and their country but have not so far been able to demonstrate how.

Even in this post you have accused them of charging around. What does this mean? It sounds like you think they are driving too fast and without responsibility. Please confirm.

Presumably the delegates are aware of the itinerary when they sign up and pay for the trip so it's nonsense to suggest there are individuals that don't approve of it or that they can't and don't stop when they want to - we did in Wales, just flashed our lights and we all stopped when we liked and took photos (couldn't find any Berbers though).

It's the phrase "pussyfooting" that made you sound disapproving. Like the phrase "charging". Can't you see that?
 
Griffdowg said:
here you go James, Just one of many posts where you have repeated yourself regarding legal roads, 18 vehicles etc etc.
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That's actually a good example because I clearly state that no damage was caused i.e. no consequence to the actions.

I'm arguing with people who can't read. It's becoming pointless.
 
No James your arguing with people who belive that large numbers of vehicles on a lane will get it shut down, which is what Dorsets example was. Its not all about damage (which you still clearly think it is) its also about representation.

yes your argument is pointless. I have been saying this since page 4.
 
James R said:
So all you have to do is complain and the council immediately shuts it? My God, we must be careful.
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Even you realise that there are repercussions, and the action was taken due to the perceived nuisance of additional vehicles driving on as you point out below

James R said:
There were actually 18 Land Rovers in our group overall. Please tell me why it matters if this split into two groups or did it as one big group when :-

(1) Its perfectly legal to drive on these roads.
(2) No damage was caused in the slightest.


This whole thread is unfriendly to other people who were using the trails quite legitimately, safely and carefully and, frankly, I really don't care if you don't like that because it's none of your business.
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perfectly legal rights of way!!!

This is what happens when groups or large numbers of vehicles travel routes without respecting local residents or others.
 
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James R said:
That's actually a good example because I clearly state that no damage was caused i.e. no consequence to the actions.

I'm arguing with people who can't read. It's becoming pointless.
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If you had actually bothered to READ the post I made, it clearly states no damage had been caused however the consequence of additional vehicles using the lane has resulted in it being closed bythe council.

So damage to the environment is not the sole reason for giving cause to others in getting our hobby and enjoyment curtailed or even banned completely.

Does this get through to you??????
 
James R said:
That's actually a good example because I clearly state that no damage was caused i.e. no consequence to the actions.

I'm arguing with people who can't read. It's becoming pointless.
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Trolling, trolling trolling.
Anyone not trolling would have got fed up n chipped off by now.
You are in the wrong, as are protrax. You are looking for an arguement to entertain yerself. Your not winning and make your self sound silly.
Also i didnt state i had "god like" anything. My mota gets stuck like **** to a blanket.
 
James R said:
Griff - I have twisted nothing. You have accused Protrax of disrespecting the locals and their country but have not so far been able to demonstrate how.
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Protrax took 18 vehicles... and then said they only take groups of 6 see post 1 and then post 6

the POINT the guys are makin here is just that.....its called talkin bollix and doing as they like with no respect for other drivers, walkers and locals etc that and the fact that other drivers had to back up in order to let the Protrax clan past... therefore tearin up lanes. As for complaints see post 13....... blamed on the instructors... passin the buck and not givin a **** :(

But hey Vince take no fookin notice of what I say im female I aint got a clue. :rolleyes:
 
Dorset VogueSE said:
If you had actually bothered to READ the post I made, it clearly states no damage had been caused however the consequence of additional vehicles using the lane has resulted in it being closed bythe council.

So damage to the environment is not the sole reason for giving cause to others in getting our hobby and enjoyment curtailed or even banned completely.

Does this get through to you??????
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This gets through to me but is it OK if I disagree with you? BTW - I am no troll. I repeat that this thread is on the first page of Google results when you search for Happy Valley and I feel that you lot are giving Protrax a bad name with no cause.

Now. You listen to me.

You can not legislate for those that do not appreciate that you are doing no harm in your chosen hobby. You can respect their view but, just like I am doing with you, you can choose to disagree and do it anyway but do so with respect for damage being caused and noise, speed etc. If you have a group of 18 then it doesn't matter if it is one group of 18 or 3 groups of 6. It is still 18 times the road is used. I bet you've bene up there many times more than the once that all the people who came with me last weekend have done it.

You should also not appease these people either, for doing so gives them the upper hand. One must stand one's ground.

They should not (and actually do not) have the authority to close a road just like you do not have the authority to open one up.

The problem is that the government has created this artificial politically correct vibe where if you disagree with someone whose opinion agrees with the anti-car brigade then you are seen as a heretic. This is why these people are able to get things done - they have been appeased for far too long and far too much and you are still doing it.

Protrax, in my experience alone, caused no damage, no inconvenience; they acted with respect to other greenlaners and walkers and the gates that needed shutting were shut. If someone objects on the strength of that and they win then there is no justice. I am not going to start behaving in a different way though because I have done nothing wrong. To behave differently implies that there is guilt and I am not going to go about my life with a sense of angst but I will always act with common sense and respect for others. If they don't like that (like you) well that's tough.
 
It has naff all to do with a government anti car crap......Think of a councils budget, they only have a certain amount to spend. Think of the pay rise they can award themselves if they dont have to pay for maintenace of a lane because locals/bobbleheads complain that groups of 18 cars are regularly cruising up and down it disturbing their peace. Easy solution close the lane, everyones happy.

Stick to smaller groups and dont behave like a bunch a chavs round Mcdonalds car park
 
James R said:
This gets through to me but is it OK if I disagree with you?
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So the point that excessive use (non damaging) gets lanes closed due to complaints, gets through to you.............................



but you disagree with it?????


Am I reading your response correctly????



oh and I never called you a troll, I can however think of a few alternates but am keeping those to myself.
 
I think he's only trying to get a free laning session, aparently he thinks that by promoting Proplus tours he might get a freebie.

Save your breath, just find some friends;)
 
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