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>>>
>> Indeed, but I never claimed the laws of physics varied between
>> vehicles, merely that one vehicle may make a particular slope when
>> another doesn't.
>
> Yep, one with axle-lockers does, the one without doesn't.
Nope. The one with momentum and the one with TC may also make it. A light
vehicle with no lockers may make it whereas a heavy one without may not. You
just can't generalise these things.
> Pray tell, why did they left out the manual center diff locker on a
> previous generation Discovery, but quickly reimplemented it?....same
> concept, same solution....what spins front/rear can spin left/right.
>
It was left out because it was deemed too complex for American buyers to
understand and re-implemented because they complained it wasn't there.
Actually the diff-lock was always there, just the lever was missing. For
most users, TC without a centre diff-lock is more than enough as long as it
is combined with low ratio and hill descent control.
>>>>>>>>> Nobody gets anywhere with only a length-wise locked drivetrain
>>>>>>>>> on a hill with the left side on dry road, and the right side
>>>>>>>>> on a strip of ice.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Typical sweeping generalisation - depends on many things such
>>>>>>>> as weight, tyres, angle of slope, but you certainly don't need
>>>>>>>> a locker. Bog standard Freelander with ETC will get up it
>>>>>>>> easily.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, it will stall on a slope that is half as steep as with
>>>>>>> lockers. ETC wastes 50% of torque by definition.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/tad_elec.htm
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Only relevant if you do not have excess power - the Freelander
>>>>>> has more than enough power to allow a 50% loss and still move.
>>>>>> All cars do.
>>>>>
>>>>> No Tcase-less vehicle has enough power to waste 50% on a slope,
>>>>> not loaded to GVW, even less with trailer.
>>>>
>>>> What rubbish, of course they have - a Freelander V6 has 175hp -
>>>> 87.5hp is still quite enough to pull it up a slope in 1st.
>>>
>>> *A* slope, but not a gnarly slope.
>>> Murphy says *a* slope does not exist....it must be gnarly.
>>>
>> Moving the goalposts again as you concede the point.
>
> That's the fun of offroad: there are no goalposts....
)>
Thank you for conceding the point.
>>>>> (you do know that the EU tow-ratings are based on multiple starts
>>>>> on a 12% slope, don't you?)
>>>>>
>>>> Yes I do, but you are going off at a tangent - you loose the point
>>>> and try to include towing when it was never mentioned.
>>>
>>> Hook up that trailer and try your patch of ice again, now with 50%
>>> loss of torque. Your max-gnarly hill has now been reduced to 6%.
>>>
>> Random introduction of trailer to mask yet another point you have
>> lost. The Dutch are quite good footballers; is it because they also
>> keep moving the posts?
>
> You did not get that axle-locker to tackle best-case scenario's my
> dear....not as long as Murphy is around....
)> For best-case scenario's you don't need 4wd or low-range at all.
>
Thank you for conceding the point.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> We once had a 109, and in the end we started stocking
>>>>>>>>>>>>> those halfshafts ourselves....even looking at the 4wd
>>>>>>>>>>>>> button on hard pavement was enough to hear it pop....
)>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't be held responsible for your incompetence. They are
>>>>>>>>>>>> strong enough for the British Army, it must be you who is
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrong. Tell me which decent armies use Toyotas then?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Never been to Africa, eh?....
)>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Plenty of times, can't you read?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Western armies like to spend time & money on
>>>>>>>>> maintenance....African armies don't....
)>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So they buy the cheapest crap they can, use it very little
>>>>>>>> (certainly not abroad!) and replace regularly!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's the funny thing....they don't replace regularly.
>>>>>>> (not do they have to because spare-parts supply for that era
>>>>>>> runs dry....every customized-vehicle army has no choice)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Proper armies need proper vehicles - mickey mouse armies can get
>>>>>> ny with toyotas et al.
>>>>>
>>>>> You mean this?....
)>>>>>
>>>>> http://img5.photobucket.com/albums/v15/fj40dana/quacker.jpg
>>>>>
>>>> No, thats a donald duck motor - cockney rhyming slang.
>>>
>>> But at least it doesn't waggle like a RR without antiswaybars....
)>>>
>> If you want axle travel you get body roll. Toyotas don't usually have
>> have axle travel and thus don't roll when on the school run or the
>> supermarket car park. Here's a webpage that shows of all the cars
>> tested a standard 1992 Range Rover had more axle travel than any
>> other vehicle all except one of the modded and lifted vehicles. The
>> 92 TLC gets a reasonable score, but all the other toymotas are poor,
>> which is why they need their lockers so badly to compensate.
>>
>> http://www.offroaders.com/info/tech-corner/rti.htm
>
> Then why did Rover invent a dynamic/hydraulic antiswaybar on the
> Disco?....
)>
To allow a vehicle that could retain huge axle travel *and* corner flat, but
then you already knew that didn't you?
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The Humvee also only survives in the US-army because they
>>>>>>>>>>> have plenty of repair/maintenance on hand, in the field. Ask
>>>>>>>>>>> civilian Hummer owners....
) African armies don't like that>>>>>>>>>>> concept either, so they choose Toyota.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I don't have a Hummvee. Very impressive - african armies -
>>>>>>>>>> LOL! And don't forget the Taliban - LMAO!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Heck, even the probably richest army in the world,
>>>>>>>>>>> Saoudi-Arabia and/or Oman, uses huge fleets of Toyota's (and
>>>>>>>>>>> Pinzgauers), not LR.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bwhahahahahaha. Let me think - how many important wars have
>>>>>>>>>> those armies won? Proper armies don't use toymotas, just
>>>>>>>>>> these little ****ant ones that never go to war like the ones
>>>>>>>>>> you list. PS - the Pinzgauer is British now. . . . . .
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yeah, and all of a sudden they can't make a decent manual 5sp
>>>>>>>>> anymore....even a generic EU-homologation seems out of the
>>>>>>>>> window currently....
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why EU homologate a fighting machine - EU countries like to
>>>>>>>> hide under the bed when war comes. . . . . .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Austrian-made Pinzgauer & Haflinger were readily available
>>>>>>> for the civil market....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> And the Pinz is now sold only for military purposes as civvy
>>>>>> sales were disappointing before the UK bought the design.
>>>>>
>>>>> Odd, given the amount of ambulances & firefighter vehicles....
)>>>>>
>>>> Far less pinz ambulance and firefighter vehicles than Defender
>>>> based variants, so why bother with a stronger home competitor.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>> Anyway, buying Teutonic inventions is always easier than doing
>>>>>>>>> your own commercial failure, like with the FC101....
)>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You talk more and more rubbish - how can the 101 be a
>>>>>>>> commercial failure when it was never commercially available -
>>>>>>>> it was to special military order only like the lightweight,
>>>>>>>> both of which your country bought when you still had an army.
>>>>>>>> . . . .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We never had the FC101.
>>>>>>> And good military designs always trickle down to the civil
>>>>>>> market
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> You did, the Dutch Army bought 8 radio bodied 101's in 1979.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pff, what a success....they tested the Volvo C30x too, it even
>>>>> got a specific model-code.
>>>>>
>>>> You still bought them. 8 is a lot for your tiny little army.
>>>
>>> Our army make mistakes, okay?!?....
)>>>
>> Yes, they didn't buy any more. . . . . . .
>
> They didn't buy Volvo's or Pinzi's, that's the worst mistake....
>
Ask nice, we might sell you some Pinz. Do they buy Toymotas? ;-)
>>>>>>>> As for buying teutonic inventions, it beats buying jap ones,
>>>>>>>> but then I guess it's very hard to buy a Dutch 4x4. . . . .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The first ever 4wd was Dutch my dear....
>>>>>>> Fulltime too, like you wanted....
)>>>>>>> Next year a century old.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> And look how succesful it was!
>>>>>
>>>>> Indeed, it won the race/challenge at that time....
)>>>>>
>>>> And you can buy one now?
>>>
>>> Well, there was only one made....
)>>> But luckily it survived, in a Dutch museum.
>>>
>> Must be better built than a Toyota if it's still around. . . . . .
>
> We like to cherish a single excellent product, instead of cherishing
> many mediocre products....
)>
Good job as you don't make much, mediocre or cherishable. But then it's
always those who don't do anything who criticise those who do. . . . .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I mean, it's better to order a fiberglass, alloy or SS
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> replica Cruiser body than start the other way
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> around....
)>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good grief - it's embarrassing enough to be seen in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toyota, let alone extending their life beyond the normal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5 years by fitting a body made out of the same stuff as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the dashboard. . . . . . :-(
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> At least you can bang your head on it, when (not if) you
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have a stuck LR blocking your way for the gazillionst
>>>>>>>>>>>>> time....
)>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Only Toymotas I see are on the end of a rope attached to my
>>>>>>>>>>>> nato hitch while I pull them out of muddy car parks and
>>>>>>>>>>>> other such difficult terrain.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That's how we snapped half-shafts on our 109 too, by
>>>>>>>>>>> towing....
)>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Well I never have and all those toymotas I tow out with all
>>>>>>>>>> that chrome and velour seats are heavy you know - maybe you
>>>>>>>>>> should learn to drive.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But pray tell, why are there dozens of aftermarket halfshafts
>>>>>>>>> for LR's available, and virtually none for TLC's?....
)>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Because TLC's don't get old enough to repair, you just buy
>>>>>>>> another disposable jap motor.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But why then repair a LR from tip to toe?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> You don't need to, mine has had veryl little done in over 40
>>>>>> years, all major components are original.
>>>>>
>>>>> See, that's the difference.
>>>>> Toyota's are used for their intended purpose, often ten times
>>>>> worse. LR's are only conservated, because that's the only thing
>>>>> you can do with them....
)>>>>>
>>>> 307,000 miles plus 11 years army service 'conservated'?????? All
>>>> that plastic in your toymota must be going to your head!
>>>
>>> With how many rebuilds, pray tell?....
)>>>
>> None, it is still all on its original components - no rebuilds,
>> rebores or replacements, just servicing and items like seals, bushes
>> etc and a new carb. The engine is tired now though and in another
>> 50k miles she might need some headwork, but she's just passed her
>> annual MOT test on emmissions so she can't be too bad. Only three
>> weeks ago the old lady was pulling a shiny Hilux Surf out of a Welsh
>> peat bog halfway up a mountain. Interesting to note that although
>> the Hilux was over thirty years younger it still had the same basic
>> design as my old girl - cart springs, drum brakes etc, etc.
>
> See, that's what they like in thirdworld countries....springs that
> can be welded back together by the local blacksmith.
I'd like to see a blacksmith fix that dodgy IFS on many toymotas.
> But they don't like getting only 1/3rd of vehicle-width as a driver,
> forcing your elbow out of the window....
)>
Thats exactly what they want in a working vehicle - more cargo space at the
expense of the driver. It's only weekend poseurs who worry about comfort.
>>>>>>>>> And why can't no aftermarket locker survive on a stock LR
>>>>>>>>> halfshaft, and why even with a locker a TLC still doesn't need
>>>>>>>>> an aftermarket halfshaft?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Because Toyotas have no axle travel, they had to design them to
>>>>>>>> take lockers, LR's don't suffer this problem so didn't need
>>>>>>>> such axles.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is that why KAM-Differentials got UK-military orders for their
>>>>>>> cable locker?....
)>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not for fitment to LR's they didn't.
>>>
>>> Yes they did.
>>> Cable-operation plus manual-override on the axle itself was
>>> supposedly a NATO-requirement/wish.
>>>
>> Nope. Stayed on the wish list, was never implemented.
>
> It was more than a test, it was a significant order AFAIK, perhaps a
> fleet for only a certain specialized army squadron.
>
You are dreaming again - post a link or pipe down.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The only sad thing is that they don't offer complete
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fiber/alloy/SS FJ55 bodies....;((
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (but even in misery-climate UK several have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> survived....
)>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> True, but then Toymotas just aren't up to harsh climates
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like Britain - best keep them in a heated garage if you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want then to last. . . ;-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Or hose them off every day, like in the military, you
>>>>>>>>>>>>> cheater!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You could hose your jap toys off every hour, they will
>>>>>>>>>>>> still get towed to the scrappy by a LR 3 or 4 times their
>>>>>>>>>>>> age eventually. . . . . .
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It's almost gerontofilia to keep them around for so long,
>>>>>>>>>>> and rebuilding them time after time....
)>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hahahaha. You really don't know what you are talking about do
>>>>>>>>>> you? The vast majority of old Land Rovers are run by people
>>>>>>>>>> who've owned them for years and barely change the oil, let
>>>>>>>>>> alone rebuild them! Just face facts, you will never see as
>>>>>>>>>> many old Toyotas on the roads as you will Land Rovers because
>>>>>>>>>> Toymotas aren't designed to last.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I know the staggering amount of ads for complete replacement
>>>>>>>>> frames, bulkheads etc etc....you won't find that for Land
>>>>>>>>> Cruisers.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Of course you won't - there are tens of thousands of 40 year
>>>>>>>> old Land Rovers about that finally need repairs - how many 40
>>>>>>>> year old toymotas are there? Five or six?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Never been to Africa/Afghanistan/Pakistan, eh?
>>>>>>> (actually, Afghanistan/Yemen were the first Cruiser export
>>>>>>> markets ever)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> You keep asking the same question. Africa - yes, Afghanistan -
>>>>>> no, Pakistan - yes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Btw, noticed what kind of 4wd taxi they use in Iraq?
>>>>>>> FJ55.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Poor things - they don't have much choice in Iraq at the moment
>>>>>> and have to use whatever is available.
>>>>>
>>>>> But they had *every* choice when these where bought ('67-79).
>>>>> Yet they choose TLC, not LR.
>>>>>
>>>> And then replaced them with Stage 1 109's in 1979. . . . . .
>>>
>>> No, they kept using these FJ55's till this very day....
)>>>
>> Only the poor sods who couldn't get his hands on a V8. The 55's left
>> are a handful now.
>
> There wouldn't have been that many on TV in that case....hundreds if
> not thousands are around.
>
Watching your TV isn't really a scientific basis for a survey of how many
old unroadworthy jap motors didn't get bombed by the coalition is it?
>>>>> Actually, I have been in contact with a Pakistani non-profit
>>>>> organisation, who wanted to use an EU-gift on vehicles, which had
>>>>> to be EU-made (gotta love those EU-bureaucrats).
>>>>> They wanted everything *but* a LR....they begged and plead if I
>>>>> *really* didn't know any Toyota 4x4 made in Europe....I even tried
>>>>> talking them into the new Santana Annibal, getting rid of most of
>>>>> the sick details, but they still didn't want to budge....
>>>>> Can you imagine, money for free to buy LR's, but instead using
>>>>> money out of their own pockets to buy TLC's?....
)>>>>>
>>>> No. like most of your posts i can't believe it and you don't seem
>>>> able to back them up either.
>>>
>>> Better believe me.
>>> Even Pakistani abroad have faith in Google (and me)....
)>>> Boy, that was one of the saddest messages I ever had to convey, with
>>> bleeding heart....stupid EU-bureaucrats!
>>>
>> Post a link if you want believing, otherwise keep your fantasies to
>> yourself.
>
> Using Google to find/trust me, not me to put that conversation
> online....even had a Dutch Santana dealer ready with an offer for 20
> units, but they still didn't bite....smart folks....
)>
Post the link then or pipe down.
>>>>>>> Haven't seen much LR's there, have you?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> You've obviously never been there or you would have seen tens of
>>>>>> thousands of Land Rovers. Saddam Hussein bought huge numbers of
>>>>>> LWB Stage 1 V8's for his army and then many 110, most of which
>>>>>> were in service until the recent war! ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> See, he lost....
)))>>>>>
>>>> He lost to other Land Rovers, not jap plastic-fantastic
>>>> disposables.
>>>
>>> You mean diesel vs gasoline?
>>> Fair deal, fair defeat....
)>>>
>> What difference does that make in the desert? They are hardly going
>> to be doing much deep water fording are they? ;-)
>
> You like fueling up in the heat of the battle?
You've clearly never been near a battle field or a 109 V8 which has a range
of 250 miles - you'd need to plan pretty badly to need to fill up when you
got to the front line. It's irrelevant anyway as they were only used for
retreating!
> The ratio is 2:1 for Cruiser gasoline vs diesel in heavy sand, and
> that's with *equal* displacement.
>
Good job that they didn't use them in heavy sand then. Arabs know better
than to drive in heavy sand when they are in a rush and especially when
being shot at. It's just us off-road tourists who like to play in soft sand!
Though to be fair to the Iraqi 109 V8's, they were/are fitted with Michelin
XS - the finest sand tyres ever made and a huge advantage over the mud
terrains fitted to most coalition vehicles.
>>>>>> You also see many Land Rovers which are locally assembled in
>>>>>> Turkey and shipped in through Mosul. If you watched any TV
>>>>>> during the recent conflict you will have seen US special forces
>>>>>> in the north of the country using civvy-spec white LR Defender
>>>>>> TD5 double cabs to support the Kurdish militias, a vehicle which
>>>>>> the US spec ops universally praised as superior to humvees for
>>>>>> that role. . . . .
>>>>>
>>>>> No you don't, you see much more Toyota pickups, Hilux &
>>>>> Cruiser....
)>>>>>
>>>> Yes you do.
>>>
>>> Don't be childish, you look away when you see a Toyota on the
>>> screen, that doesn't count.
>>>
>> I don't look away, but the chrome and two-tone paint on those
>> gin-palaces you pretend are off-roaders does tend to blind one
>> somewhat. . . .
>
> They don't sell chrome in Africa, and in the Gulf they sell goldplated
> ornaments.
>
All the Toyotas I've seen in Kenya, Sierra Leone and Zimbabwe had chrome.
>>>>>>>> There is no point having a strong parts supply
>>>>>>>> for jap stuff when they don't last long enough to need the
>>>>>>>> parts is there?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tell them in Iraq....
)>>>>>>>
>>>>>> You think any of the Iraqi toymotas are 40 years old? Ten at the
>>>>>> most and thats only because they don't get wet and rust away in
>>>>>> the gulf.
>>>>>
>>>>> Those FJ55's are 25-35 years old by now.
>>>>> Spending their entire life as taxi....
>>>>>
>>>> I'm afraid not, there are hardly any 55's left and those that do
>>>> survive are usually on their 3rd engine and 4th gearbox.
>>>
>>> You didn't watch much TV during the heat of the battle then....I
>>> have seen more than 10 of them, every line of waiting cars outside
>>> major cities contained at least one of these white/orange FJ55's.
>>> I even have a collection of close-up pix from an Cruiser-buddy war-
>>> photographer, shot somewhere in the north of Iraq.
>>>
>> I watched it very carefully to see if I could spot any of our brave
>> dutch allies helping out, but sadly saw none whether in a Toyota or
>> not.
>
> Where did it say this Cruiser-buddy was Dutch?
Just a rough guess from all the nl's in your addy. Where you are from is
irrelevant, but we were discussing the Dutch forces.
> There is probably only one original FJ55 left in Holland (the UK
> recently lost one to Portugal btw....
), so that's no source for> likeminded folks....
)>
Wow - they really last don't they?
Fortunately theres million of much older Land Rovers left.. . . .
>> One per city, yep that sounds about how many are left now.
>>
>> I'd love to see those pics - post a url will you?
>
> Don't think CNN & Co. keep their galleries online that long....
> Can mail them if you want, don't have a gallery for those yet.
> Even a video of the Basra statue toppling was enhanced by a FJ55 taxi
> driving past in the background.
>
Well it would be too delicate to be doing any hard work, I guess taxi work
round town is about what they are built for. . . .
>>> Plus a shot & burned carcass, which only an FJ55-owner will
>>> recognize....;((
>>>
>> Same old story - successful and powerful western army uses LR and
>> wins, third world dictator uses any crap, even toyota and loses. You
>> must be so proud!
>
> Shooting a thin-metal vehicle, that according to you already falls
> apart from rust, is that fair engagement on the
> battlefield?....organise a tug- of-war for crying out loud, but leave
> the body intact!....
)>
Sounds fair to me - if my army thought so little of me to put me in a
Toyota, I'd surrender immediately! I wonder if the French use Toyotas. . . .
.. .?
>>>>>>>>> Btw, read a lovely report on a mailinglist, doing research on
>>>>>>>>> the origin of a capstan winch, from his father in
>>>>>>>>> law....someone suggested Land Rover....but that was dismissed
>>>>>>>>> quickly, because his father in law was by far not rich enough
>>>>>>>>> to keep up with maintenance cost....
)>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sure you did. Keeping a LR serviced is a hell of a lot cheaper
>>>>>>>> than buying a new jap thing every few years and much better for
>>>>>>>> the environment. . . . . .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Since when is a puddle of oil good for the environment?....
)))>>>>>>
>>>>>> Since according to the EU 92% of the entire pollution associated
>>>>>> with a cars life is generated during its production, not from its
>>>>>> engine during its running life. Therefore my 40 year old LR with
>>>>>> a little oil leak is infinitely more environmentally friendly
>>>>>> that your much newer and regularly replaced tin japbox.
>>>>>
>>>>> No EU-commission will have imagined or even considered a modern
>>>>> vehicle that leaks more crap standing still than it will ever emit
>>>>> through the exhaust....
)>>>>
>>>> Try to keep up - not standing still, but during the manufacturing
>>>> of the vehicle far more pollution is realeased than during it's
>>>> life, so your jap kiddy-cars aren't very green.
>>>
>>> They still probably waste more oil during production to find all the
>>> out- of-spec leaks and missing plugs than during actual life &
>>> service....
)>>>
>> Probably, maybe, perhaps. Thats all you do isn't it - guessing? I can
>> understand the innate sense of inferiority driving your jappy thing
>> instills, but please try to support your automotive racism with a
>> little more fact and a little less verbal diahorrea.
>
> Better that than ****ting oil in the driveway....
)>
Concede the point again and try to bring it back to an oil leak! You're
running out of stuff to moan about and repeating yourself. . . .
>>> Hey, fair is fair, I missed a few plugs once too, but that was in a
>>> military personel-carrier track....when crossing a deep puddle, it
>>> mysteriously didn't float that well, and we had to take a few
>>> 100kg's of mud home. One of my barets still sits way tighter than
>>> the other....
)>>
>> If you knew anything about off-roading you would know that a floating
>> vehicle has no traction - it must sink to ford water successfully
>
> No, a track doesn't, and with larger paddled wheels you can get
> forward too.
LOL - assuming their is no current or you may choose where you enter the
river, but not where you leave! Your answers are sounding increasingly
desperate as you clutch at straws . . . . ;-)
> It can and will float, but they put a ban on that after some idiot
> pulled his life-vest while sinking, before leaving the vehicle.
> That's why the procedure of those plugs wasn't well-trained, but it
> made searching for deep water all the more fun of course....
)>
Are we even having the same discusiion any more? Put that spliff out!
>> though
>> of course I realise that being totally flat the Dutch idea of
>> difficult off-roading is a puddle you could drive a mini through
>> without dirtying the alloys. If 'baret' is an English word, it's not
>> in my dictionary, please illucidate.
>>
>> And remember the words from the Toyota advert - '. . . .the car in
>> front is a Toyota. . . .' coz it's bloody stuck again!
>
> At least its blood is still where it belongs, instead of dribbling
> out....
)Blood? What are you smoking? Try more tobacco and less **** dude! I await
your continued irrelevant ramblings with baited breath. . . . .
--
Julian
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