For the Volvo aficionado's....:))

"Exit" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Willem-Jan Markerink wrote:
>> "Exit" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> Willem-Jan Markerink wrote:
>>>> "Exit" <[email protected]> wrote in
>>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>>
>>>>> Willem-
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You missed the TopGear episode where they try to trash a
>>>>>>>>>> Toyota pickup, and it keeps running and running like a
>>>>>>>>>> perverted Duracell Bunny?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No, Ive seen that - nothing that an old Series Land Rover
>>>>>>>>> couldn't do - after all a modern Hilux is about as high tech as
>>>>>>>>> a 1950's SII
>>>>>>>>> - leaf springs, old fashioned diesel engine etc etc. Shame they
>>>>>>>>> rust so easily or you might see lots of them still in use when
>>>>>>>>> they are 40 years old like you do Land Rovers. . . . . .
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There is no use being left with only an alloy body, once the
>>>>>>>> rest has crumbled to r/dust.
>>>>>>>> I don't know any brand that has so much supply of new frames &
>>>>>>>> bulkheads than Land Rover....)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thats because no other vehicle lasts long enough to need a new
>>>>>>> chassis, you just throw away old jap-crap.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's also why so many LR's lost their original engine and
>>>>>> axles?....)
>>>>>>
>>>>> Heh? My 1959 SII has it's original chassis, bulkhead, axles and
>>>>> engine - admittedly it's only done 307,000 miles so it's only just
>>>>> run in but the British Army owned it for the first 11 years of it's
>>>>> life. Be amazed if I ever see a 45 year old toymota that has
>>>>> survived army life and still beats new jap stuff off-road. . . . .
>>>>> . .
>>>>
>>>> Never been to Africa, eh?....)
>>>
>>> Plenty of times - it's nice and dry - suits jap stuff.
>>>
>>>> And talking offroad: since when can stock LR-axles take lockers
>>>> without snapping like pretzels?
>>>
>>> Since when have they needed them? I realise the jappies have such
>>> little axle travel you need to fit lockers to drive up a kerb, but
>>> properly designed off-roaders don't.
>>
>> Nonsense, even on a flat surface you can get stuck on a patch of ice
>> on one side.
>>
> In a toyota.

I knew different laws of hydraulics applied to LR's, but different rules of
reology too?....)
Nobody gets anywhere with only a length-wise locked drivetrain on a hill
with the left side on dry road, and the right side on a strip of ice.

>>>> We once had a 109, and in the end we started stocking those
>>>> halfshafts ourselves....even looking at the 4wd button on hard
>>>> pavement was enough to hear it pop....)
>>>>
>>> I can't be held responsible for your incompetence. They are strong
>>> enough for the British Army, it must be you who is wrong. Tell me
>>> which decent armies use Toyotas then?
>>
>> Never been to Africa, eh?....)
>
> Plenty of times, can't you read?

Western armies like to spend time & money on maintenance....African armies
don't....)

>> The Humvee also only survives in the US-army because they have plenty
>> of repair/maintenance on hand, in the field. Ask civilian Hummer
>> owners....) African armies don't like that concept either, so they
>> choose Toyota.
>>
> I don't have a Hummvee. Very impressive - african armies - LOL! And
> don't forget the Taliban - LMAO!
>
>> Heck, even the probably richest army in the world, Saoudi-Arabia
>> and/or Oman, uses huge fleets of Toyota's (and Pinzgauers), not LR.
>>
> Bwhahahahahaha. Let me think - how many important wars have those armies
> won? Proper armies don't use toymotas, just these little ****ant ones
> that never go to war like the ones you list. PS - the Pinzgauer is
> British now. . . . . .

Yeah, and all of a sudden they can't make a decent manual 5sp
anymore....even a generic EU-homologation seems out of the window
currently....
Anyway, buying Teutonic inventions is always easier than doing your own
commercial failure, like with the FC101....)

>>>>>> I mean, it's better to order a fiberglass, alloy or SS replica
>>>>>> Cruiser body than start the other way around....)
>>>>>>
>>>>> Good grief - it's embarrassing enough to be seen in a Toyota, let
>>>>> alone extending their life beyond the normal 5 years by fitting a
>>>>> body made out of the same stuff as the dashboard. . . . . . :-(
>>>>
>>>> At least you can bang your head on it, when (not if) you have a
>>>> stuck LR blocking your way for the gazillionst time....)
>>>>
>>> Only Toymotas I see are on the end of a rope attached to my nato
>>> hitch while I pull them out of muddy car parks and other such
>>> difficult terrain.
>>
>> That's how we snapped half-shafts on our 109 too, by towing....)
>>
> Well I never have and all those toymotas I tow out with all that chrome
> and velour seats are heavy you know - maybe you should learn to drive.

But pray tell, why are there dozens of aftermarket halfshafts for LR's
available, and virtually none for TLC's?....)
And why can't no aftermarket locker survive on a stock LR halfshaft, and
why even with a locker a TLC still doesn't need an aftermarket halfshaft?

>>>>>> The only sad thing is that they don't offer complete
>>>>>> fiber/alloy/SS FJ55 bodies....;((
>>>>>> (but even in misery-climate UK several have survived....)
>>>>>
>>>>> True, but then Toymotas just aren't up to harsh climates like
>>>>> Britain - best keep them in a heated garage if you want then to
>>>>> last. . . ;-)
>>>>
>>>> Or hose them off every day, like in the military, you cheater!
>>>
>>> You could hose your jap toys off every hour, they will still get
>>> towed to the scrappy by a LR 3 or 4 times their age eventually. . .
>>> . . .
>>
>> It's almost gerontofilia to keep them around for so long, and
>> rebuilding them time after time....)
>
> Hahahaha. You really don't know what you are talking about do you? The
> vast majority of old Land Rovers are run by people who've owned them for
> years and barely change the oil, let alone rebuild them! Just face
> facts, you will never see as many old Toyotas on the roads as you will
> Land Rovers because Toymotas aren't designed to last.

I know the staggering amount of ads for complete replacement frames,
bulkheads etc etc....you won't find that for Land Cruisers.

Btw, read a lovely report on a mailinglist, doing research on the origin of
a capstan winch, from his father in law....someone suggested Land
Rover....but that was dismissed quickly, because his father in law was by
far not rich enough to keep up with maintenance cost....)

--
Bye,

Willem-Jan Markerink

The desire to understand
is sometimes far less intelligent than
the inability to understand

<[email protected]>
[note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!]

Willem-Jan Markerink wrote:
> "Exit" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> Willem-Jan Markerink wrote:
>>> "Exit" <[email protected]> wrote in
>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>
>>>> Willem-Jan Markerink wrote:
>>>>> "Exit" <[email protected]> wrote in
>>>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Willem-
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You missed the TopGear episode where they try to trash a
>>>>>>>>>>> Toyota pickup, and it keeps running and running like a
>>>>>>>>>>> perverted Duracell Bunny?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> No, Ive seen that - nothing that an old Series Land Rover
>>>>>>>>>> couldn't do - after all a modern Hilux is about as high tech
>>>>>>>>>> as a 1950's SII
>>>>>>>>>> - leaf springs, old fashioned diesel engine etc etc. Shame
>>>>>>>>>> they rust so easily or you might see lots of them still in
>>>>>>>>>> use when they are 40 years old like you do Land Rovers. . .
>>>>>>>>>> . . .
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There is no use being left with only an alloy body, once the
>>>>>>>>> rest has crumbled to r/dust.
>>>>>>>>> I don't know any brand that has so much supply of new frames &
>>>>>>>>> bulkheads than Land Rover....)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thats because no other vehicle lasts long enough to need a new
>>>>>>>> chassis, you just throw away old jap-crap.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's also why so many LR's lost their original engine and
>>>>>>> axles?....)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Heh? My 1959 SII has it's original chassis, bulkhead, axles and
>>>>>> engine - admittedly it's only done 307,000 miles so it's only
>>>>>> just run in but the British Army owned it for the first 11 years
>>>>>> of it's life. Be amazed if I ever see a 45 year old toymota that
>>>>>> has survived army life and still beats new jap stuff off-road. .
>>>>>> . . . . .
>>>>>
>>>>> Never been to Africa, eh?....)
>>>>
>>>> Plenty of times - it's nice and dry - suits jap stuff.
>>>>
>>>>> And talking offroad: since when can stock LR-axles take lockers
>>>>> without snapping like pretzels?
>>>>
>>>> Since when have they needed them? I realise the jappies have such
>>>> little axle travel you need to fit lockers to drive up a kerb, but
>>>> properly designed off-roaders don't.
>>>
>>> Nonsense, even on a flat surface you can get stuck on a patch of ice
>>> on one side.
>>>
>> In a toyota.
>
> I knew different laws of hydraulics applied to LR's, but different
> rules of reology too?....)

Reology?

> Nobody gets anywhere with only a length-wise locked drivetrain on a
> hill with the left side on dry road, and the right side on a strip of
> ice.
>
Typical sweeping generalisation - depends on many things such as weight,
tyres, angle of slope, but you certainly don't need a locker. Bog standard
Freelander with ETC will get up it easily.

>>>>> We once had a 109, and in the end we started stocking those
>>>>> halfshafts ourselves....even looking at the 4wd button on hard
>>>>> pavement was enough to hear it pop....)
>>>>>
>>>> I can't be held responsible for your incompetence. They are strong
>>>> enough for the British Army, it must be you who is wrong. Tell me
>>>> which decent armies use Toyotas then?
>>>
>>> Never been to Africa, eh?....)
>>
>> Plenty of times, can't you read?
>
> Western armies like to spend time & money on maintenance....African
> armies don't....)
>
So they buy the cheapest crap they can, use it very little (certainly not
abroad!) and replace regularly!

>>> The Humvee also only survives in the US-army because they have
>>> plenty of repair/maintenance on hand, in the field. Ask civilian
>>> Hummer owners....) African armies don't like that concept either,
>>> so they choose Toyota.
>>>
>> I don't have a Hummvee. Very impressive - african armies - LOL! And
>> don't forget the Taliban - LMAO!
>>
>>> Heck, even the probably richest army in the world, Saoudi-Arabia
>>> and/or Oman, uses huge fleets of Toyota's (and Pinzgauers), not LR.
>>>
>> Bwhahahahahaha. Let me think - how many important wars have those
>> armies won? Proper armies don't use toymotas, just these little
>> ****ant ones that never go to war like the ones you list. PS - the
>> Pinzgauer is British now. . . . . .
>
> Yeah, and all of a sudden they can't make a decent manual 5sp
> anymore....even a generic EU-homologation seems out of the window
> currently....

Why EU homologate a fighting machine - EU countries like to hide under the
bed when war comes. . . . . .

> Anyway, buying Teutonic inventions is always easier than doing your
> own commercial failure, like with the FC101....)
>
You talk more and more rubbish - how can the 101 be a commercial failure
when it was never commercially available - it was to special military order
only like the lightweight, both of which your country bought when you still
had an army. . . . .

As for buying teutonic inventions, it beats buying jap ones, but then I
guess it's very hard to buy a Dutch 4x4. . . . .

>>>>>>> I mean, it's better to order a fiberglass, alloy or SS replica
>>>>>>> Cruiser body than start the other way around....)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Good grief - it's embarrassing enough to be seen in a Toyota, let
>>>>>> alone extending their life beyond the normal 5 years by fitting a
>>>>>> body made out of the same stuff as the dashboard. . . . . . :-(
>>>>>
>>>>> At least you can bang your head on it, when (not if) you have a
>>>>> stuck LR blocking your way for the gazillionst time....)
>>>>>
>>>> Only Toymotas I see are on the end of a rope attached to my nato
>>>> hitch while I pull them out of muddy car parks and other such
>>>> difficult terrain.
>>>
>>> That's how we snapped half-shafts on our 109 too, by towing....)
>>>
>> Well I never have and all those toymotas I tow out with all that
>> chrome and velour seats are heavy you know - maybe you should learn
>> to drive.
>
> But pray tell, why are there dozens of aftermarket halfshafts for LR's
> available, and virtually none for TLC's?....)

Because TLC's don't get old enough to repair, you just buy another
disposable jap motor.

> And why can't no aftermarket locker survive on a stock LR halfshaft,
> and why even with a locker a TLC still doesn't need an aftermarket
> halfshaft?
>
Because Toyotas have no axle travel, they had to design them to take
lockers, LR's don't suffer this problem so didn't need such axles.

>>>>>>> The only sad thing is that they don't offer complete
>>>>>>> fiber/alloy/SS FJ55 bodies....;((
>>>>>>> (but even in misery-climate UK several have survived....)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> True, but then Toymotas just aren't up to harsh climates like
>>>>>> Britain - best keep them in a heated garage if you want then to
>>>>>> last. . . ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Or hose them off every day, like in the military, you cheater!
>>>>
>>>> You could hose your jap toys off every hour, they will still get
>>>> towed to the scrappy by a LR 3 or 4 times their age eventually. . .
>>>> . . .
>>>
>>> It's almost gerontofilia to keep them around for so long, and
>>> rebuilding them time after time....)
>>
>> Hahahaha. You really don't know what you are talking about do you?
>> The vast majority of old Land Rovers are run by people who've owned
>> them for years and barely change the oil, let alone rebuild them!
>> Just face facts, you will never see as many old Toyotas on the roads
>> as you will Land Rovers because Toymotas aren't designed to last.
>
> I know the staggering amount of ads for complete replacement frames,
> bulkheads etc etc....you won't find that for Land Cruisers.
>
Of course you won't - there are tens of thousands of 40 year old Land Rovers
about that finally need repairs - how many 40 year old toymotas are there?
Five or six? There is no point having a strong parts supply for jap stuff
when they don't last long enough to need the parts is there?

> Btw, read a lovely report on a mailinglist, doing research on the
> origin of a capstan winch, from his father in law....someone
> suggested Land Rover....but that was dismissed quickly, because his
> father in law was by far not rich enough to keep up with maintenance
> cost....)

Sure you did. Keeping a LR serviced is a hell of a lot cheaper than buying a
new jap thing every few years and much better for the environment. . . . . .

--
Julian
---------
= Pretentious Sig required =

"Exit" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Willem-Jan Markerink wrote:
>> "Exit" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> Willem-Jan Markerink wrote:
>>>> "Exit" <[email protected]> wrote in
>>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>>
>>>>> Willem-Jan Markerink wrote:
>>>>>> "Exit" <[email protected]> wrote in
>>>>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Willem-
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You missed the TopGear episode where they try to trash a
>>>>>>>>>>>> Toyota pickup, and it keeps running and running like a
>>>>>>>>>>>> perverted Duracell Bunny?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> No, Ive seen that - nothing that an old Series Land Rover
>>>>>>>>>>> couldn't do - after all a modern Hilux is about as high tech
>>>>>>>>>>> as a 1950's SII
>>>>>>>>>>> - leaf springs, old fashioned diesel engine etc etc. Shame
>>>>>>>>>>> they rust so easily or you might see lots of them still in
>>>>>>>>>>> use when they are 40 years old like you do Land Rovers. . .
>>>>>>>>>>> . . .
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There is no use being left with only an alloy body, once the
>>>>>>>>>> rest has crumbled to r/dust.
>>>>>>>>>> I don't know any brand that has so much supply of new frames &
>>>>>>>>>> bulkheads than Land Rover....)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thats because no other vehicle lasts long enough to need a new
>>>>>>>>> chassis, you just throw away old jap-crap.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's also why so many LR's lost their original engine and
>>>>>>>> axles?....)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Heh? My 1959 SII has it's original chassis, bulkhead, axles and
>>>>>>> engine - admittedly it's only done 307,000 miles so it's only
>>>>>>> just run in but the British Army owned it for the first 11 years
>>>>>>> of it's life. Be amazed if I ever see a 45 year old toymota that
>>>>>>> has survived army life and still beats new jap stuff off-road. .
>>>>>>> . . . . .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Never been to Africa, eh?....)
>>>>>
>>>>> Plenty of times - it's nice and dry - suits jap stuff.
>>>>>
>>>>>> And talking offroad: since when can stock LR-axles take lockers
>>>>>> without snapping like pretzels?
>>>>>
>>>>> Since when have they needed them? I realise the jappies have such
>>>>> little axle travel you need to fit lockers to drive up a kerb, but
>>>>> properly designed off-roaders don't.
>>>>
>>>> Nonsense, even on a flat surface you can get stuck on a patch of ice
>>>> on one side.
>>>>
>>> In a toyota.
>>
>> I knew different laws of hydraulics applied to LR's, but different
>> rules of reology too?....)
>
> Reology?
>
>> Nobody gets anywhere with only a length-wise locked drivetrain on a
>> hill with the left side on dry road, and the right side on a strip of
>> ice.
>>
> Typical sweeping generalisation - depends on many things such as weight,
> tyres, angle of slope, but you certainly don't need a locker. Bog
> standard Freelander with ETC will get up it easily.

No, it will stall on a slope that is half as steep as with lockers.
ETC wastes 50% of torque by definition.

http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/tad_elec.htm

>>>>>> We once had a 109, and in the end we started stocking those
>>>>>> halfshafts ourselves....even looking at the 4wd button on hard
>>>>>> pavement was enough to hear it pop....)
>>>>>>
>>>>> I can't be held responsible for your incompetence. They are strong
>>>>> enough for the British Army, it must be you who is wrong. Tell me
>>>>> which decent armies use Toyotas then?
>>>>
>>>> Never been to Africa, eh?....)
>>>
>>> Plenty of times, can't you read?
>>
>> Western armies like to spend time & money on maintenance....African
>> armies don't....)
>>
> So they buy the cheapest crap they can, use it very little (certainly
> not abroad!) and replace regularly!

That's the funny thing....they don't replace regularly.
(not do they have to because spare-parts supply for that era runs
dry....every customized-vehicle army has no choice)

>>>> The Humvee also only survives in the US-army because they have
>>>> plenty of repair/maintenance on hand, in the field. Ask civilian
>>>> Hummer owners....) African armies don't like that concept either,
>>>> so they choose Toyota.
>>>>
>>> I don't have a Hummvee. Very impressive - african armies - LOL! And
>>> don't forget the Taliban - LMAO!
>>>
>>>> Heck, even the probably richest army in the world, Saoudi-Arabia
>>>> and/or Oman, uses huge fleets of Toyota's (and Pinzgauers), not LR.
>>>>
>>> Bwhahahahahaha. Let me think - how many important wars have those
>>> armies won? Proper armies don't use toymotas, just these little
>>> ****ant ones that never go to war like the ones you list. PS - the
>>> Pinzgauer is British now. . . . . .
>>
>> Yeah, and all of a sudden they can't make a decent manual 5sp
>> anymore....even a generic EU-homologation seems out of the window
>> currently....
>
> Why EU homologate a fighting machine - EU countries like to hide under
> the bed when war comes. . . . . .

The Austrian-made Pinzgauer & Haflinger were readily available for the
civil market....

>> Anyway, buying Teutonic inventions is always easier than doing your
>> own commercial failure, like with the FC101....)
>>
> You talk more and more rubbish - how can the 101 be a commercial failure
> when it was never commercially available - it was to special military
> order only like the lightweight, both of which your country bought when
> you still had an army. . . . .

We never had the FC101.
And good military designs always trickle down to the civil market

> As for buying teutonic inventions, it beats buying jap ones, but then I
> guess it's very hard to buy a Dutch 4x4. . . . .

The first ever 4wd was Dutch my dear....
Fulltime too, like you wanted....)
Next year a century old.

>>>>>>>> I mean, it's better to order a fiberglass, alloy or SS replica
>>>>>>>> Cruiser body than start the other way around....)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Good grief - it's embarrassing enough to be seen in a Toyota, let
>>>>>>> alone extending their life beyond the normal 5 years by fitting a
>>>>>>> body made out of the same stuff as the dashboard. . . . . . :-(
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At least you can bang your head on it, when (not if) you have a
>>>>>> stuck LR blocking your way for the gazillionst time....)
>>>>>>
>>>>> Only Toymotas I see are on the end of a rope attached to my nato
>>>>> hitch while I pull them out of muddy car parks and other such
>>>>> difficult terrain.
>>>>
>>>> That's how we snapped half-shafts on our 109 too, by towing....)
>>>>
>>> Well I never have and all those toymotas I tow out with all that
>>> chrome and velour seats are heavy you know - maybe you should learn
>>> to drive.
>>
>> But pray tell, why are there dozens of aftermarket halfshafts for LR's
>> available, and virtually none for TLC's?....)
>
> Because TLC's don't get old enough to repair, you just buy another
> disposable jap motor.

But why then repair a LR from tip to toe?

>> And why can't no aftermarket locker survive on a stock LR halfshaft,
>> and why even with a locker a TLC still doesn't need an aftermarket
>> halfshaft?
>>
> Because Toyotas have no axle travel, they had to design them to take
> lockers, LR's don't suffer this problem so didn't need such axles.

Is that why KAM-Differentials got UK-military orders for their cable
locker?....)

>>>>>>>> The only sad thing is that they don't offer complete
>>>>>>>> fiber/alloy/SS FJ55 bodies....;((
>>>>>>>> (but even in misery-climate UK several have survived....)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> True, but then Toymotas just aren't up to harsh climates like
>>>>>>> Britain - best keep them in a heated garage if you want then to
>>>>>>> last. . . ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or hose them off every day, like in the military, you cheater!
>>>>>
>>>>> You could hose your jap toys off every hour, they will still get
>>>>> towed to the scrappy by a LR 3 or 4 times their age eventually. . .
>>>>> . . .
>>>>
>>>> It's almost gerontofilia to keep them around for so long, and
>>>> rebuilding them time after time....)
>>>
>>> Hahahaha. You really don't know what you are talking about do you?
>>> The vast majority of old Land Rovers are run by people who've owned
>>> them for years and barely change the oil, let alone rebuild them!
>>> Just face facts, you will never see as many old Toyotas on the roads
>>> as you will Land Rovers because Toymotas aren't designed to last.
>>
>> I know the staggering amount of ads for complete replacement frames,
>> bulkheads etc etc....you won't find that for Land Cruisers.
>>
> Of course you won't - there are tens of thousands of 40 year old Land
> Rovers about that finally need repairs - how many 40 year old toymotas
> are there? Five or six?

Never been to Africa/Afghanistan/Pakistan, eh?
(actually, Afghanistan/Yemen were the first Cruiser export markets ever)

Btw, noticed what kind of 4wd taxi they use in Iraq?
FJ55.
Haven't seen much LR's there, have you?

> There is no point having a strong parts supply
> for jap stuff when they don't last long enough to need the parts is
> there?

Tell them in Iraq....)

>> Btw, read a lovely report on a mailinglist, doing research on the
>> origin of a capstan winch, from his father in law....someone
>> suggested Land Rover....but that was dismissed quickly, because his
>> father in law was by far not rich enough to keep up with maintenance
>> cost....)
>
> Sure you did. Keeping a LR serviced is a hell of a lot cheaper than
> buying a new jap thing every few years and much better for the
> environment. . . . . .

Since when is a puddle of oil good for the environment?....)))



--
Bye,

Willem-Jan Markerink

The desire to understand
is sometimes far less intelligent than
the inability to understand

<[email protected]>
[note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!]

..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Never been to Africa, eh?....)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Plenty of times - it's nice and dry - suits jap stuff.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And talking offroad: since when can stock LR-axles take lockers
>>>>>>> without snapping like pretzels?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Since when have they needed them? I realise the jappies have such
>>>>>> little axle travel you need to fit lockers to drive up a kerb,
>>>>>> but properly designed off-roaders don't.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nonsense, even on a flat surface you can get stuck on a patch of
>>>>> ice on one side.
>>>>>
>>>> In a toyota.
>>>
>>> I knew different laws of hydraulics applied to LR's, but different
>>> rules of reology too?....)
>>
>> Reology?
>>
>>> Nobody gets anywhere with only a length-wise locked drivetrain on a
>>> hill with the left side on dry road, and the right side on a strip
>>> of ice.
>>>
>> Typical sweeping generalisation - depends on many things such as
>> weight, tyres, angle of slope, but you certainly don't need a
>> locker. Bog standard Freelander with ETC will get up it easily.
>
> No, it will stall on a slope that is half as steep as with lockers.
> ETC wastes 50% of torque by definition.
>
> http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/tad_elec.htm
>
Only relevant if you do not have excess power - the Freelander has more than
enough power to allow a 50% loss and still move. All cars do.

>>>>>>> We once had a 109, and in the end we started stocking those
>>>>>>> halfshafts ourselves....even looking at the 4wd button on hard
>>>>>>> pavement was enough to hear it pop....)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can't be held responsible for your incompetence. They are
>>>>>> strong enough for the British Army, it must be you who is wrong.
>>>>>> Tell me which decent armies use Toyotas then?
>>>>>
>>>>> Never been to Africa, eh?....)
>>>>
>>>> Plenty of times, can't you read?
>>>
>>> Western armies like to spend time & money on maintenance....African
>>> armies don't....)
>>>
>> So they buy the cheapest crap they can, use it very little (certainly
>> not abroad!) and replace regularly!
>
> That's the funny thing....they don't replace regularly.
> (not do they have to because spare-parts supply for that era runs
> dry....every customized-vehicle army has no choice)
>
Proper armies need proper vehicles - mickey mouse armies can get ny with
toyotas et al.

>>>>> The Humvee also only survives in the US-army because they have
>>>>> plenty of repair/maintenance on hand, in the field. Ask civilian
>>>>> Hummer owners....) African armies don't like that concept
>>>>> either, so they choose Toyota.
>>>>>
>>>> I don't have a Hummvee. Very impressive - african armies - LOL! And
>>>> don't forget the Taliban - LMAO!
>>>>
>>>>> Heck, even the probably richest army in the world, Saoudi-Arabia
>>>>> and/or Oman, uses huge fleets of Toyota's (and Pinzgauers), not
>>>>> LR.
>>>>>
>>>> Bwhahahahahaha. Let me think - how many important wars have those
>>>> armies won? Proper armies don't use toymotas, just these little
>>>> ****ant ones that never go to war like the ones you list. PS - the
>>>> Pinzgauer is British now. . . . . .
>>>
>>> Yeah, and all of a sudden they can't make a decent manual 5sp
>>> anymore....even a generic EU-homologation seems out of the window
>>> currently....
>>
>> Why EU homologate a fighting machine - EU countries like to hide
>> under the bed when war comes. . . . . .
>
> The Austrian-made Pinzgauer & Haflinger were readily available for the
> civil market....
>
And the Pinz is now sold only for military purposes as civvy sales were
disappointing before the UK bought the design.

>>> Anyway, buying Teutonic inventions is always easier than doing your
>>> own commercial failure, like with the FC101....)
>>>
>> You talk more and more rubbish - how can the 101 be a commercial
>> failure when it was never commercially available - it was to special
>> military order only like the lightweight, both of which your country
>> bought when you still had an army. . . . .
>
> We never had the FC101.
> And good military designs always trickle down to the civil market
>
You did, the Dutch Army bought 8 radio bodied 101's in 1979.

>> As for buying teutonic inventions, it beats buying jap ones, but
>> then I guess it's very hard to buy a Dutch 4x4. . . . .
>
> The first ever 4wd was Dutch my dear....
> Fulltime too, like you wanted....)
> Next year a century old.
>
And look how succesful it was!

>>>>>>>>> I mean, it's better to order a fiberglass, alloy or SS replica
>>>>>>>>> Cruiser body than start the other way around....)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Good grief - it's embarrassing enough to be seen in a Toyota,
>>>>>>>> let alone extending their life beyond the normal 5 years by
>>>>>>>> fitting a body made out of the same stuff as the dashboard. .
>>>>>>>> . . . . :-(
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At least you can bang your head on it, when (not if) you have a
>>>>>>> stuck LR blocking your way for the gazillionst time....)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Only Toymotas I see are on the end of a rope attached to my nato
>>>>>> hitch while I pull them out of muddy car parks and other such
>>>>>> difficult terrain.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's how we snapped half-shafts on our 109 too, by towing....)
>>>>>
>>>> Well I never have and all those toymotas I tow out with all that
>>>> chrome and velour seats are heavy you know - maybe you should learn
>>>> to drive.
>>>
>>> But pray tell, why are there dozens of aftermarket halfshafts for
>>> LR's available, and virtually none for TLC's?....)
>>
>> Because TLC's don't get old enough to repair, you just buy another
>> disposable jap motor.
>
> But why then repair a LR from tip to toe?
>
You don't need to, mine has had veryl little done in over 40 years, all
major components are original.

>>> And why can't no aftermarket locker survive on a stock LR halfshaft,
>>> and why even with a locker a TLC still doesn't need an aftermarket
>>> halfshaft?
>>>
>> Because Toyotas have no axle travel, they had to design them to take
>> lockers, LR's don't suffer this problem so didn't need such axles.
>
> Is that why KAM-Differentials got UK-military orders for their cable
> locker?....)
>
Not for fitment to LR's they didn't.

>>>>>>>>> The only sad thing is that they don't offer complete
>>>>>>>>> fiber/alloy/SS FJ55 bodies....;((
>>>>>>>>> (but even in misery-climate UK several have survived....)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> True, but then Toymotas just aren't up to harsh climates like
>>>>>>>> Britain - best keep them in a heated garage if you want then to
>>>>>>>> last. . . ;-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Or hose them off every day, like in the military, you cheater!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You could hose your jap toys off every hour, they will still get
>>>>>> towed to the scrappy by a LR 3 or 4 times their age eventually.
>>>>>> . . . . .
>>>>>
>>>>> It's almost gerontofilia to keep them around for so long, and
>>>>> rebuilding them time after time....)
>>>>
>>>> Hahahaha. You really don't know what you are talking about do you?
>>>> The vast majority of old Land Rovers are run by people who've owned
>>>> them for years and barely change the oil, let alone rebuild them!
>>>> Just face facts, you will never see as many old Toyotas on the
>>>> roads as you will Land Rovers because Toymotas aren't designed to
>>>> last.
>>>
>>> I know the staggering amount of ads for complete replacement frames,
>>> bulkheads etc etc....you won't find that for Land Cruisers.
>>>
>> Of course you won't - there are tens of thousands of 40 year old Land
>> Rovers about that finally need repairs - how many 40 year old
>> toymotas are there? Five or six?
>
> Never been to Africa/Afghanistan/Pakistan, eh?
> (actually, Afghanistan/Yemen were the first Cruiser export markets
> ever)
>
You keep asking the same question. Africa - yes, Afghanistan - no,
Pakistan - yes.

> Btw, noticed what kind of 4wd taxi they use in Iraq?
> FJ55.

Poor things - they don't have much choice in Iraq at the moment and have to
use whatever is available.

> Haven't seen much LR's there, have you?
>
You've obviously never been there or you would have seen tens of thousands
of Land Rovers. Saddam Hussein bought huge numbers of LWB Stage 1 V8's for
his army and then many 110, most of which were in service until the recent
war! ;-)

You also see many Land Rovers which are locally assembled in Turkey and
shipped in through Mosul. If you watched any TV during the recent conflict
you will have seen US special forces in the north of the country using
civvy-spec white LR Defender TD5 double cabs to support the Kurdish
militias, a vehicle which the US spec ops universally praised as superior to
humvees for that role. . . . .

>> There is no point having a strong parts supply
>> for jap stuff when they don't last long enough to need the parts is
>> there?
>
> Tell them in Iraq....)
>
You think any of the Iraqi toymotas are 40 years old? Ten at the most and
thats only because they don't get wet and rust away in the gulf.

>>> Btw, read a lovely report on a mailinglist, doing research on the
>>> origin of a capstan winch, from his father in law....someone
>>> suggested Land Rover....but that was dismissed quickly, because his
>>> father in law was by far not rich enough to keep up with maintenance
>>> cost....)
>>
>> Sure you did. Keeping a LR serviced is a hell of a lot cheaper than
>> buying a new jap thing every few years and much better for the
>> environment. . . . . .
>
> Since when is a puddle of oil good for the environment?....)))

Since according to the EU 92% of the entire pollution associated with a cars
life is generated during its production, not from its engine during its
running life. Therefore my 40 year old LR with a little oil leak is
infinitely more environmentally friendly that your much newer and regularly
replaced tin japbox.

--
Julian
---------
= Pretentious Sig required =

Willem - I can't see any point myself, but if you wish to carry on this
'discussion' nominate somewhere else as I think we might be boring the
regulars by now!

--
Julian
---------
= Pretentious Sig required =

"Exit" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> .
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Never been to Africa, eh?....)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Plenty of times - it's nice and dry - suits jap stuff.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And talking offroad: since when can stock LR-axles take lockers
>>>>>>>> without snapping like pretzels?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Since when have they needed them? I realise the jappies have such
>>>>>>> little axle travel you need to fit lockers to drive up a kerb,
>>>>>>> but properly designed off-roaders don't.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nonsense, even on a flat surface you can get stuck on a patch of
>>>>>> ice on one side.
>>>>>>
>>>>> In a toyota.
>>>>
>>>> I knew different laws of hydraulics applied to LR's, but different
>>>> rules of reology too?....)
>>>
>>> Reology?

It never hurts to have a dictionary at hand....)

>>>> Nobody gets anywhere with only a length-wise locked drivetrain on a
>>>> hill with the left side on dry road, and the right side on a strip
>>>> of ice.
>>>>
>>> Typical sweeping generalisation - depends on many things such as
>>> weight, tyres, angle of slope, but you certainly don't need a
>>> locker. Bog standard Freelander with ETC will get up it easily.
>>
>> No, it will stall on a slope that is half as steep as with lockers.
>> ETC wastes 50% of torque by definition.
>>
>> http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/tad_elec.htm
>>
> Only relevant if you do not have excess power - the Freelander has more
> than enough power to allow a 50% loss and still move. All cars do.

No Tcase-less vehicle has enough power to waste 50% on a slope, not loaded
to GVW, even less with trailer.
(you do know that the EU tow-ratings are based on multiple starts on a 12%
slope, don't you?)

>>>>>>>> We once had a 109, and in the end we started stocking those
>>>>>>>> halfshafts ourselves....even looking at the 4wd button on hard
>>>>>>>> pavement was enough to hear it pop....)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I can't be held responsible for your incompetence. They are
>>>>>>> strong enough for the British Army, it must be you who is wrong.
>>>>>>> Tell me which decent armies use Toyotas then?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Never been to Africa, eh?....)
>>>>>
>>>>> Plenty of times, can't you read?
>>>>
>>>> Western armies like to spend time & money on maintenance....African
>>>> armies don't....)
>>>>
>>> So they buy the cheapest crap they can, use it very little (certainly
>>> not abroad!) and replace regularly!
>>
>> That's the funny thing....they don't replace regularly.
>> (not do they have to because spare-parts supply for that era runs
>> dry....every customized-vehicle army has no choice)
>>
> Proper armies need proper vehicles - mickey mouse armies can get ny with
> toyotas et al.

You mean this?....)

http://img5.photobucket.com/albums/v15/fj40dana/quacker.jpg


>>>>>> The Humvee also only survives in the US-army because they have
>>>>>> plenty of repair/maintenance on hand, in the field. Ask civilian
>>>>>> Hummer owners....) African armies don't like that concept
>>>>>> either, so they choose Toyota.
>>>>>>
>>>>> I don't have a Hummvee. Very impressive - african armies - LOL! And
>>>>> don't forget the Taliban - LMAO!
>>>>>
>>>>>> Heck, even the probably richest army in the world, Saoudi-Arabia
>>>>>> and/or Oman, uses huge fleets of Toyota's (and Pinzgauers), not
>>>>>> LR.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Bwhahahahahaha. Let me think - how many important wars have those
>>>>> armies won? Proper armies don't use toymotas, just these little
>>>>> ****ant ones that never go to war like the ones you list. PS - the
>>>>> Pinzgauer is British now. . . . . .
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, and all of a sudden they can't make a decent manual 5sp
>>>> anymore....even a generic EU-homologation seems out of the window
>>>> currently....
>>>
>>> Why EU homologate a fighting machine - EU countries like to hide
>>> under the bed when war comes. . . . . .
>>
>> The Austrian-made Pinzgauer & Haflinger were readily available for the
>> civil market....
>>
> And the Pinz is now sold only for military purposes as civvy sales were
> disappointing before the UK bought the design.

Odd, given the amount of ambulances & firefighter vehicles....)

>>>> Anyway, buying Teutonic inventions is always easier than doing your
>>>> own commercial failure, like with the FC101....)
>>>>
>>> You talk more and more rubbish - how can the 101 be a commercial
>>> failure when it was never commercially available - it was to special
>>> military order only like the lightweight, both of which your country
>>> bought when you still had an army. . . . .
>>
>> We never had the FC101.
>> And good military designs always trickle down to the civil market
>>
> You did, the Dutch Army bought 8 radio bodied 101's in 1979.

Pff, what a success....they tested the Volvo C30x too, it even got a
specific model-code.

>>> As for buying teutonic inventions, it beats buying jap ones, but
>>> then I guess it's very hard to buy a Dutch 4x4. . . . .
>>
>> The first ever 4wd was Dutch my dear....
>> Fulltime too, like you wanted....)
>> Next year a century old.
>>
> And look how succesful it was!

Indeed, it won the race/challenge at that time....)

>>>>>>>>>> I mean, it's better to order a fiberglass, alloy or SS replica
>>>>>>>>>> Cruiser body than start the other way around....)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Good grief - it's embarrassing enough to be seen in a Toyota,
>>>>>>>>> let alone extending their life beyond the normal 5 years by
>>>>>>>>> fitting a body made out of the same stuff as the dashboard. .
>>>>>>>>> . . . . :-(
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> At least you can bang your head on it, when (not if) you have a
>>>>>>>> stuck LR blocking your way for the gazillionst time....)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Only Toymotas I see are on the end of a rope attached to my nato
>>>>>>> hitch while I pull them out of muddy car parks and other such
>>>>>>> difficult terrain.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's how we snapped half-shafts on our 109 too, by towing....)
>>>>>>
>>>>> Well I never have and all those toymotas I tow out with all that
>>>>> chrome and velour seats are heavy you know - maybe you should learn
>>>>> to drive.
>>>>
>>>> But pray tell, why are there dozens of aftermarket halfshafts for
>>>> LR's available, and virtually none for TLC's?....)
>>>
>>> Because TLC's don't get old enough to repair, you just buy another
>>> disposable jap motor.
>>
>> But why then repair a LR from tip to toe?
>>
> You don't need to, mine has had veryl little done in over 40 years, all
> major components are original.

See, that's the difference.
Toyota's are used for their intended purpose, often ten times worse.
LR's are only conservated, because that's the only thing you can do with
them....)

>>>> And why can't no aftermarket locker survive on a stock LR halfshaft,
>>>> and why even with a locker a TLC still doesn't need an aftermarket
>>>> halfshaft?
>>>>
>>> Because Toyotas have no axle travel, they had to design them to take
>>> lockers, LR's don't suffer this problem so didn't need such axles.
>>
>> Is that why KAM-Differentials got UK-military orders for their cable
>> locker?....)
>>
> Not for fitment to LR's they didn't.
>
>>>>>>>>>> The only sad thing is that they don't offer complete
>>>>>>>>>> fiber/alloy/SS FJ55 bodies....;((
>>>>>>>>>> (but even in misery-climate UK several have survived....)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> True, but then Toymotas just aren't up to harsh climates like
>>>>>>>>> Britain - best keep them in a heated garage if you want then to
>>>>>>>>> last. . . ;-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Or hose them off every day, like in the military, you cheater!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You could hose your jap toys off every hour, they will still get
>>>>>>> towed to the scrappy by a LR 3 or 4 times their age eventually.
>>>>>>> . . . . .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's almost gerontofilia to keep them around for so long, and
>>>>>> rebuilding them time after time....)
>>>>>
>>>>> Hahahaha. You really don't know what you are talking about do you?
>>>>> The vast majority of old Land Rovers are run by people who've owned
>>>>> them for years and barely change the oil, let alone rebuild them!
>>>>> Just face facts, you will never see as many old Toyotas on the
>>>>> roads as you will Land Rovers because Toymotas aren't designed to
>>>>> last.
>>>>
>>>> I know the staggering amount of ads for complete replacement frames,
>>>> bulkheads etc etc....you won't find that for Land Cruisers.
>>>>
>>> Of course you won't - there are tens of thousands of 40 year old Land
>>> Rovers about that finally need repairs - how many 40 year old
>>> toymotas are there? Five or six?
>>
>> Never been to Africa/Afghanistan/Pakistan, eh?
>> (actually, Afghanistan/Yemen were the first Cruiser export markets
>> ever)
>>
> You keep asking the same question. Africa - yes, Afghanistan - no,
> Pakistan - yes.
>
>> Btw, noticed what kind of 4wd taxi they use in Iraq?
>> FJ55.
>
> Poor things - they don't have much choice in Iraq at the moment and have
> to use whatever is available.

But they had *every* choice when these where bought ('67-79).
Yet they choose TLC, not LR.

Actually, I have been in contact with a Pakistani non-profit organisation,
who wanted to use an EU-gift on vehicles, which had to be EU-made (gotta
love those EU-bureaucrats).
They wanted everything *but* a LR....they begged and plead if I *really*
didn't know any Toyota 4x4 made in Europe....I even tried talking them into
the new Santana Annibal, getting rid of most of the sick details, but they
still didn't want to budge....
Can you imagine, money for free to buy LR's, but instead using money out of
their own pockets to buy TLC's?....)

>> Haven't seen much LR's there, have you?
>>
> You've obviously never been there or you would have seen tens of
> thousands of Land Rovers. Saddam Hussein bought huge numbers of LWB
> Stage 1 V8's for his army and then many 110, most of which were in
> service until the recent war! ;-)

See, he lost....)))

> You also see many Land Rovers which are locally assembled in Turkey and
> shipped in through Mosul. If you watched any TV during the recent
> conflict you will have seen US special forces in the north of the
> country using civvy-spec white LR Defender TD5 double cabs to support
> the Kurdish militias, a vehicle which the US spec ops universally
> praised as superior to humvees for that role. . . . .

No you don't, you see much more Toyota pickups, Hilux & Cruiser....)

>>> There is no point having a strong parts supply
>>> for jap stuff when they don't last long enough to need the parts is
>>> there?
>>
>> Tell them in Iraq....)
>>
> You think any of the Iraqi toymotas are 40 years old? Ten at the most
> and thats only because they don't get wet and rust away in the gulf.

Those FJ55's are 25-35 years old by now.
Spending their entire life as taxi....

>>>> Btw, read a lovely report on a mailinglist, doing research on the
>>>> origin of a capstan winch, from his father in law....someone
>>>> suggested Land Rover....but that was dismissed quickly, because his
>>>> father in law was by far not rich enough to keep up with maintenance
>>>> cost....)
>>>
>>> Sure you did. Keeping a LR serviced is a hell of a lot cheaper than
>>> buying a new jap thing every few years and much better for the
>>> environment. . . . . .
>>
>> Since when is a puddle of oil good for the environment?....)))
>
> Since according to the EU 92% of the entire pollution associated with a
> cars life is generated during its production, not from its engine during
> its running life. Therefore my 40 year old LR with a little oil leak is
> infinitely more environmentally friendly that your much newer and
> regularly replaced tin japbox.

No EU-commission will have imagined or even considered a modern vehicle
that leaks more crap standing still than it will ever emit through the
exhaust....)



--
Bye,

Willem-Jan Markerink

The desire to understand
is sometimes far less intelligent than
the inability to understand

<[email protected]>
[note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!]

"Exit" <[email protected]> wrote in news:r6OBb.28829$Y72.9546@news-
lhr.blueyonder.co.uk:

> Willem - I can't see any point myself, but if you wish to carry on this
> 'discussion' nominate somewhere else as I think we might be boring the
> regulars by now!
>

Nono, silence from others is good....they very well know how to protest, so
this is an endorsement....)

--
Bye,

Willem-Jan Markerink

The desire to understand
is sometimes far less intelligent than
the inability to understand

<[email protected]>
[note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!]

"Willem-Jan Markerink" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Exit" <[email protected]> wrote in news:r6OBb.28829$Y72.9546@news-
> lhr.blueyonder.co.uk:
>
> > Willem - I can't see any point myself, but if you wish to carry on this
> > 'discussion' nominate somewhere else as I think we might be boring the
> > regulars by now!
> >
>
> Nono, silence from others is good....they very well know how to protest,
so
> this is an endorsement....)
>

I for one find it enjoyable reading, and I see no winner at present, you're
both doing fine.

> --
> Bye,
>
> Willem-Jan Markerink
>
> The desire to understand
> is sometimes far less intelligent than
> the inability to understand
>
> <[email protected]>
> [note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!]

Willem-Jan Markerink wrote:
> "Exit" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> .
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Never been to Africa, eh?....)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Plenty of times - it's nice and dry - suits jap stuff.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And talking offroad: since when can stock LR-axles take
>>>>>>>>> lockers without snapping like pretzels?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Since when have they needed them? I realise the jappies have
>>>>>>>> such little axle travel you need to fit lockers to drive up a
>>>>>>>> kerb, but properly designed off-roaders don't.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nonsense, even on a flat surface you can get stuck on a patch of
>>>>>>> ice on one side.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> In a toyota.
>>>>>
>>>>> I knew different laws of hydraulics applied to LR's, but different
>>>>> rules of reology too?....)
>>>>
>>>> Reology?
>
> It never hurts to have a dictionary at hand....)
>
I know what it means, I can't see the relevance to your point. Perhaps you
have used the wrong word?

>>>>> Nobody gets anywhere with only a length-wise locked drivetrain on
>>>>> a hill with the left side on dry road, and the right side on a
>>>>> strip of ice.
>>>>>
>>>> Typical sweeping generalisation - depends on many things such as
>>>> weight, tyres, angle of slope, but you certainly don't need a
>>>> locker. Bog standard Freelander with ETC will get up it easily.
>>>
>>> No, it will stall on a slope that is half as steep as with lockers.
>>> ETC wastes 50% of torque by definition.
>>>
>>> http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/tad_elec.htm
>>>
>> Only relevant if you do not have excess power - the Freelander has
>> more than enough power to allow a 50% loss and still move. All cars
>> do.
>
> No Tcase-less vehicle has enough power to waste 50% on a slope, not
> loaded to GVW, even less with trailer.

What rubbish, of course they have - a Freelander V6 has 175hp - 87.5hp is
still quite enough to pull it up a slope in 1st.

> (you do know that the EU tow-ratings are based on multiple starts on
> a 12% slope, don't you?)
>
Yes I do, but you are going off at a tangent - you loose the point and try
to include towing when it was never mentioned.

>>>>>>>>> We once had a 109, and in the end we started stocking those
>>>>>>>>> halfshafts ourselves....even looking at the 4wd button on hard
>>>>>>>>> pavement was enough to hear it pop....)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I can't be held responsible for your incompetence. They are
>>>>>>>> strong enough for the British Army, it must be you who is
>>>>>>>> wrong. Tell me which decent armies use Toyotas then?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Never been to Africa, eh?....)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Plenty of times, can't you read?
>>>>>
>>>>> Western armies like to spend time & money on
>>>>> maintenance....African armies don't....)
>>>>>
>>>> So they buy the cheapest crap they can, use it very little
>>>> (certainly not abroad!) and replace regularly!
>>>
>>> That's the funny thing....they don't replace regularly.
>>> (not do they have to because spare-parts supply for that era runs
>>> dry....every customized-vehicle army has no choice)
>>>
>> Proper armies need proper vehicles - mickey mouse armies can get ny
>> with toyotas et al.
>
> You mean this?....)
>
> http://img5.photobucket.com/albums/v15/fj40dana/quacker.jpg
>
No, thats a donald duck motor - cockney rhyming slang.

>
>>>>>>> The Humvee also only survives in the US-army because they have
>>>>>>> plenty of repair/maintenance on hand, in the field. Ask civilian
>>>>>>> Hummer owners....) African armies don't like that concept
>>>>>>> either, so they choose Toyota.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't have a Hummvee. Very impressive - african armies - LOL!
>>>>>> And don't forget the Taliban - LMAO!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Heck, even the probably richest army in the world, Saoudi-Arabia
>>>>>>> and/or Oman, uses huge fleets of Toyota's (and Pinzgauers), not
>>>>>>> LR.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bwhahahahahaha. Let me think - how many important wars have those
>>>>>> armies won? Proper armies don't use toymotas, just these little
>>>>>> ****ant ones that never go to war like the ones you list. PS -
>>>>>> the Pinzgauer is British now. . . . . .
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, and all of a sudden they can't make a decent manual 5sp
>>>>> anymore....even a generic EU-homologation seems out of the window
>>>>> currently....
>>>>
>>>> Why EU homologate a fighting machine - EU countries like to hide
>>>> under the bed when war comes. . . . . .
>>>
>>> The Austrian-made Pinzgauer & Haflinger were readily available for
>>> the civil market....
>>>
>> And the Pinz is now sold only for military purposes as civvy sales
>> were disappointing before the UK bought the design.
>
> Odd, given the amount of ambulances & firefighter vehicles....)
>
Far less pinz ambulance and firefighter vehicles than Defender based
variants, so why bother with a stronger home competitor.

>>>>> Anyway, buying Teutonic inventions is always easier than doing
>>>>> your own commercial failure, like with the FC101....)
>>>>>
>>>> You talk more and more rubbish - how can the 101 be a commercial
>>>> failure when it was never commercially available - it was to
>>>> special military order only like the lightweight, both of which
>>>> your country bought when you still had an army. . . . .
>>>
>>> We never had the FC101.
>>> And good military designs always trickle down to the civil market
>>>
>> You did, the Dutch Army bought 8 radio bodied 101's in 1979.
>
> Pff, what a success....they tested the Volvo C30x too, it even got a
> specific model-code.
>
You still bought them. 8 is a lot for your tiny little army.

>>>> As for buying teutonic inventions, it beats buying jap ones, but
>>>> then I guess it's very hard to buy a Dutch 4x4. . . . .
>>>
>>> The first ever 4wd was Dutch my dear....
>>> Fulltime too, like you wanted....)
>>> Next year a century old.
>>>
>> And look how succesful it was!
>
> Indeed, it won the race/challenge at that time....)
>
And you can buy one now?

>>>>>>>>>>> I mean, it's better to order a fiberglass, alloy or SS
>>>>>>>>>>> replica Cruiser body than start the other way around....)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Good grief - it's embarrassing enough to be seen in a Toyota,
>>>>>>>>>> let alone extending their life beyond the normal 5 years by
>>>>>>>>>> fitting a body made out of the same stuff as the dashboard. .
>>>>>>>>>> . . . . :-(
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> At least you can bang your head on it, when (not if) you have
>>>>>>>>> a stuck LR blocking your way for the gazillionst time....)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Only Toymotas I see are on the end of a rope attached to my
>>>>>>>> nato hitch while I pull them out of muddy car parks and other
>>>>>>>> such difficult terrain.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's how we snapped half-shafts on our 109 too, by
>>>>>>> towing....)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well I never have and all those toymotas I tow out with all that
>>>>>> chrome and velour seats are heavy you know - maybe you should
>>>>>> learn to drive.
>>>>>
>>>>> But pray tell, why are there dozens of aftermarket halfshafts for
>>>>> LR's available, and virtually none for TLC's?....)
>>>>
>>>> Because TLC's don't get old enough to repair, you just buy another
>>>> disposable jap motor.
>>>
>>> But why then repair a LR from tip to toe?
>>>
>> You don't need to, mine has had veryl little done in over 40 years,
>> all major components are original.
>
> See, that's the difference.
> Toyota's are used for their intended purpose, often ten times worse.
> LR's are only conservated, because that's the only thing you can do
> with them....)
>
307,000 miles plus 11 years army service 'conservated'?????? All that
plastic in your toymota must be going to your head!

>>>>> And why can't no aftermarket locker survive on a stock LR
>>>>> halfshaft, and why even with a locker a TLC still doesn't need an
>>>>> aftermarket halfshaft?
>>>>>
>>>> Because Toyotas have no axle travel, they had to design them to
>>>> take lockers, LR's don't suffer this problem so didn't need such
>>>> axles.
>>>
>>> Is that why KAM-Differentials got UK-military orders for their cable
>>> locker?....)
>>>
>> Not for fitment to LR's they didn't.
>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The only sad thing is that they don't offer complete
>>>>>>>>>>> fiber/alloy/SS FJ55 bodies....;((
>>>>>>>>>>> (but even in misery-climate UK several have survived....)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> True, but then Toymotas just aren't up to harsh climates like
>>>>>>>>>> Britain - best keep them in a heated garage if you want then
>>>>>>>>>> to last. . . ;-)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Or hose them off every day, like in the military, you cheater!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You could hose your jap toys off every hour, they will still
>>>>>>>> get towed to the scrappy by a LR 3 or 4 times their age
>>>>>>>> eventually. . . . . .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's almost gerontofilia to keep them around for so long, and
>>>>>>> rebuilding them time after time....)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hahahaha. You really don't know what you are talking about do
>>>>>> you? The vast majority of old Land Rovers are run by people
>>>>>> who've owned them for years and barely change the oil, let alone
>>>>>> rebuild them! Just face facts, you will never see as many old
>>>>>> Toyotas on the roads as you will Land Rovers because Toymotas
>>>>>> aren't designed to last.
>>>>>
>>>>> I know the staggering amount of ads for complete replacement
>>>>> frames, bulkheads etc etc....you won't find that for Land
>>>>> Cruisers.
>>>>>
>>>> Of course you won't - there are tens of thousands of 40 year old
>>>> Land Rovers about that finally need repairs - how many 40 year old
>>>> toymotas are there? Five or six?
>>>
>>> Never been to Africa/Afghanistan/Pakistan, eh?
>>> (actually, Afghanistan/Yemen were the first Cruiser export markets
>>> ever)
>>>
>> You keep asking the same question. Africa - yes, Afghanistan - no,
>> Pakistan - yes.
>>
>>> Btw, noticed what kind of 4wd taxi they use in Iraq?
>>> FJ55.
>>
>> Poor things - they don't have much choice in Iraq at the moment and
>> have to use whatever is available.
>
> But they had *every* choice when these where bought ('67-79).
> Yet they choose TLC, not LR.
>
And then replaced them with Stage 1 109's in 1979. . . . . .

> Actually, I have been in contact with a Pakistani non-profit
> organisation, who wanted to use an EU-gift on vehicles, which had to
> be EU-made (gotta love those EU-bureaucrats).
> They wanted everything *but* a LR....they begged and plead if I
> *really* didn't know any Toyota 4x4 made in Europe....I even tried
> talking them into the new Santana Annibal, getting rid of most of the
> sick details, but they still didn't want to budge....
> Can you imagine, money for free to buy LR's, but instead using money
> out of their own pockets to buy TLC's?....)
>
No. like most of your posts i can't believe it and you don't seem able to
back them up either.

>>> Haven't seen much LR's there, have you?
>>>
>> You've obviously never been there or you would have seen tens of
>> thousands of Land Rovers. Saddam Hussein bought huge numbers of LWB
>> Stage 1 V8's for his army and then many 110, most of which were in
>> service until the recent war! ;-)
>
> See, he lost....)))
>
He lost to other Land Rovers, not jap plastic-fantastic disposables.

>> You also see many Land Rovers which are locally assembled in Turkey
>> and shipped in through Mosul. If you watched any TV during the recent
>> conflict you will have seen US special forces in the north of the
>> country using civvy-spec white LR Defender TD5 double cabs to support
>> the Kurdish militias, a vehicle which the US spec ops universally
>> praised as superior to humvees for that role. . . . .
>
> No you don't, you see much more Toyota pickups, Hilux & Cruiser....)
>
Yes you do.

>>>> There is no point having a strong parts supply
>>>> for jap stuff when they don't last long enough to need the parts is
>>>> there?
>>>
>>> Tell them in Iraq....)
>>>
>> You think any of the Iraqi toymotas are 40 years old? Ten at the most
>> and thats only because they don't get wet and rust away in the gulf.
>
> Those FJ55's are 25-35 years old by now.
> Spending their entire life as taxi....
>
I'm afraid not, there are hardly any 55's left and those that do survive are
usually on their 3rd engine and 4th gearbox.

>>>>> Btw, read a lovely report on a mailinglist, doing research on the
>>>>> origin of a capstan winch, from his father in law....someone
>>>>> suggested Land Rover....but that was dismissed quickly, because
>>>>> his father in law was by far not rich enough to keep up with
>>>>> maintenance cost....)
>>>>
>>>> Sure you did. Keeping a LR serviced is a hell of a lot cheaper than
>>>> buying a new jap thing every few years and much better for the
>>>> environment. . . . . .
>>>
>>> Since when is a puddle of oil good for the environment?....)))
>>
>> Since according to the EU 92% of the entire pollution associated
>> with a cars life is generated during its production, not from its
>> engine during its running life. Therefore my 40 year old LR with a
>> little oil leak is infinitely more environmentally friendly that
>> your much newer and regularly replaced tin japbox.
>
> No EU-commission will have imagined or even considered a modern
> vehicle that leaks more crap standing still than it will ever emit
> through the exhaust....)

Try to keep up - not standing still, but during the manufacturing of the
vehicle far more pollution is realeased than during it's life, so your jap
kiddy-cars aren't very green.

--
Julian
---------
= Pretentious Sig required =

Willem-Jan Markerink wrote:
> "Exit" <[email protected]> wrote in news:r6OBb.28829$Y72.9546@news-
> lhr.blueyonder.co.uk:
>
>> Willem - I can't see any point myself, but if you wish to carry on
>> this 'discussion' nominate somewhere else as I think we might be
>> boring the regulars by now!
>>
>
> Nono, silence from others is good....they very well know how to
> protest, so this is an endorsement....)

Well, if you're happy to keep losing every point don't say I didn't give you
a way out. . . . .

--
Julian
---------
= Pretentious Sig required =

"Exit" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Willem-Jan Markerink wrote:
>> "Exit" <[email protected]> wrote in news:r6OBb.28829$Y72.9546@news-
>> lhr.blueyonder.co.uk:
>>
>>> Willem - I can't see any point myself, but if you wish to carry on
>>> this 'discussion' nominate somewhere else as I think we might be
>>> boring the regulars by now!
>>>
>>
>> Nono, silence from others is good....they very well know how to
>> protest, so this is an endorsement....)
>
> Well, if you're happy to keep losing every point don't say I didn't give
> you a way out. . . . .
>

I never said it was an endorsement for you....)

--
Bye,

Willem-Jan Markerink

The desire to understand
is sometimes far less intelligent than
the inability to understand

<[email protected]>
[note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!]

"Exit" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Willem-Jan Markerink wrote:
>> "Exit" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Never been to Africa, eh?....)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Plenty of times - it's nice and dry - suits jap stuff.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And talking offroad: since when can stock LR-axles take
>>>>>>>>>> lockers without snapping like pretzels?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Since when have they needed them? I realise the jappies have
>>>>>>>>> such little axle travel you need to fit lockers to drive up a
>>>>>>>>> kerb, but properly designed off-roaders don't.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nonsense, even on a flat surface you can get stuck on a patch of
>>>>>>>> ice on one side.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In a toyota.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I knew different laws of hydraulics applied to LR's, but different
>>>>>> rules of reology too?....)
>>>>>
>>>>> Reology?
>>
>> It never hurts to have a dictionary at hand....)
>>
> I know what it means, I can't see the relevance to your point. Perhaps
> you have used the wrong word?

No, it's all about the art & science of friction....)

>>>>>> Nobody gets anywhere with only a length-wise locked drivetrain on
>>>>>> a hill with the left side on dry road, and the right side on a
>>>>>> strip of ice.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Typical sweeping generalisation - depends on many things such as
>>>>> weight, tyres, angle of slope, but you certainly don't need a
>>>>> locker. Bog standard Freelander with ETC will get up it easily.
>>>>
>>>> No, it will stall on a slope that is half as steep as with lockers.
>>>> ETC wastes 50% of torque by definition.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/tad_elec.htm
>>>>
>>> Only relevant if you do not have excess power - the Freelander has
>>> more than enough power to allow a 50% loss and still move. All cars
>>> do.
>>
>> No Tcase-less vehicle has enough power to waste 50% on a slope, not
>> loaded to GVW, even less with trailer.
>
> What rubbish, of course they have - a Freelander V6 has 175hp - 87.5hp
> is still quite enough to pull it up a slope in 1st.

*A* slope, but not a gnarly slope.
Murphy says *a* slope does not exist....it must be gnarly.

>> (you do know that the EU tow-ratings are based on multiple starts on
>> a 12% slope, don't you?)
>>
> Yes I do, but you are going off at a tangent - you loose the point and
> try to include towing when it was never mentioned.

Hook up that trailer and try your patch of ice again, now with 50% loss of
torque. Your max-gnarly hill has now been reduced to 6%.

>>>>>>>>>> We once had a 109, and in the end we started stocking those
>>>>>>>>>> halfshafts ourselves....even looking at the 4wd button on hard
>>>>>>>>>> pavement was enough to hear it pop....)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I can't be held responsible for your incompetence. They are
>>>>>>>>> strong enough for the British Army, it must be you who is
>>>>>>>>> wrong. Tell me which decent armies use Toyotas then?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Never been to Africa, eh?....)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Plenty of times, can't you read?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Western armies like to spend time & money on
>>>>>> maintenance....African armies don't....)
>>>>>>
>>>>> So they buy the cheapest crap they can, use it very little
>>>>> (certainly not abroad!) and replace regularly!
>>>>
>>>> That's the funny thing....they don't replace regularly.
>>>> (not do they have to because spare-parts supply for that era runs
>>>> dry....every customized-vehicle army has no choice)
>>>>
>>> Proper armies need proper vehicles - mickey mouse armies can get ny
>>> with toyotas et al.
>>
>> You mean this?....)
>>
>> http://img5.photobucket.com/albums/v15/fj40dana/quacker.jpg
>>
> No, thats a donald duck motor - cockney rhyming slang.

But at least it doesn't waggle like a RR without antiswaybars....)

>>
>>>>>>>> The Humvee also only survives in the US-army because they have
>>>>>>>> plenty of repair/maintenance on hand, in the field. Ask civilian
>>>>>>>> Hummer owners....) African armies don't like that concept
>>>>>>>> either, so they choose Toyota.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't have a Hummvee. Very impressive - african armies - LOL!
>>>>>>> And don't forget the Taliban - LMAO!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Heck, even the probably richest army in the world, Saoudi-Arabia
>>>>>>>> and/or Oman, uses huge fleets of Toyota's (and Pinzgauers), not
>>>>>>>> LR.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bwhahahahahaha. Let me think - how many important wars have those
>>>>>>> armies won? Proper armies don't use toymotas, just these little
>>>>>>> ****ant ones that never go to war like the ones you list. PS -
>>>>>>> the Pinzgauer is British now. . . . . .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yeah, and all of a sudden they can't make a decent manual 5sp
>>>>>> anymore....even a generic EU-homologation seems out of the window
>>>>>> currently....
>>>>>
>>>>> Why EU homologate a fighting machine - EU countries like to hide
>>>>> under the bed when war comes. . . . . .
>>>>
>>>> The Austrian-made Pinzgauer & Haflinger were readily available for
>>>> the civil market....
>>>>
>>> And the Pinz is now sold only for military purposes as civvy sales
>>> were disappointing before the UK bought the design.
>>
>> Odd, given the amount of ambulances & firefighter vehicles....)
>>
> Far less pinz ambulance and firefighter vehicles than Defender based
> variants, so why bother with a stronger home competitor.



>>>>>> Anyway, buying Teutonic inventions is always easier than doing
>>>>>> your own commercial failure, like with the FC101....)
>>>>>>
>>>>> You talk more and more rubbish - how can the 101 be a commercial
>>>>> failure when it was never commercially available - it was to
>>>>> special military order only like the lightweight, both of which
>>>>> your country bought when you still had an army. . . . .
>>>>
>>>> We never had the FC101.
>>>> And good military designs always trickle down to the civil market
>>>>
>>> You did, the Dutch Army bought 8 radio bodied 101's in 1979.
>>
>> Pff, what a success....they tested the Volvo C30x too, it even got a
>> specific model-code.
>>
> You still bought them. 8 is a lot for your tiny little army.

Our army make mistakes, okay?!?....)

>>>>> As for buying teutonic inventions, it beats buying jap ones, but
>>>>> then I guess it's very hard to buy a Dutch 4x4. . . . .
>>>>
>>>> The first ever 4wd was Dutch my dear....
>>>> Fulltime too, like you wanted....)
>>>> Next year a century old.
>>>>
>>> And look how succesful it was!
>>
>> Indeed, it won the race/challenge at that time....)
>>
> And you can buy one now?

Well, there was only one made....)
But luckily it survived, in a Dutch museum.

>>>>>>>>>>>> I mean, it's better to order a fiberglass, alloy or SS
>>>>>>>>>>>> replica Cruiser body than start the other way around....)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Good grief - it's embarrassing enough to be seen in a Toyota,
>>>>>>>>>>> let alone extending their life beyond the normal 5 years by
>>>>>>>>>>> fitting a body made out of the same stuff as the dashboard. .
>>>>>>>>>>> . . . . :-(
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> At least you can bang your head on it, when (not if) you have
>>>>>>>>>> a stuck LR blocking your way for the gazillionst time....)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Only Toymotas I see are on the end of a rope attached to my
>>>>>>>>> nato hitch while I pull them out of muddy car parks and other
>>>>>>>>> such difficult terrain.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's how we snapped half-shafts on our 109 too, by
>>>>>>>> towing....)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well I never have and all those toymotas I tow out with all that
>>>>>>> chrome and velour seats are heavy you know - maybe you should
>>>>>>> learn to drive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But pray tell, why are there dozens of aftermarket halfshafts for
>>>>>> LR's available, and virtually none for TLC's?....)
>>>>>
>>>>> Because TLC's don't get old enough to repair, you just buy another
>>>>> disposable jap motor.
>>>>
>>>> But why then repair a LR from tip to toe?
>>>>
>>> You don't need to, mine has had veryl little done in over 40 years,
>>> all major components are original.
>>
>> See, that's the difference.
>> Toyota's are used for their intended purpose, often ten times worse.
>> LR's are only conservated, because that's the only thing you can do
>> with them....)
>>
> 307,000 miles plus 11 years army service 'conservated'?????? All that
> plastic in your toymota must be going to your head!

With how many rebuilds, pray tell?....)

>>>>>> And why can't no aftermarket locker survive on a stock LR
>>>>>> halfshaft, and why even with a locker a TLC still doesn't need an
>>>>>> aftermarket halfshaft?
>>>>>>
>>>>> Because Toyotas have no axle travel, they had to design them to
>>>>> take lockers, LR's don't suffer this problem so didn't need such
>>>>> axles.
>>>>
>>>> Is that why KAM-Differentials got UK-military orders for their cable
>>>> locker?....)
>>>>
>>> Not for fitment to LR's they didn't.

Yes they did.
Cable-operation plus manual-override on the axle itself was supposedly a
NATO-requirement/wish.

>>>>>>>>>>>> The only sad thing is that they don't offer complete
>>>>>>>>>>>> fiber/alloy/SS FJ55 bodies....;((
>>>>>>>>>>>> (but even in misery-climate UK several have survived....)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> True, but then Toymotas just aren't up to harsh climates like
>>>>>>>>>>> Britain - best keep them in a heated garage if you want then
>>>>>>>>>>> to last. . . ;-)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Or hose them off every day, like in the military, you cheater!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You could hose your jap toys off every hour, they will still
>>>>>>>>> get towed to the scrappy by a LR 3 or 4 times their age
>>>>>>>>> eventually. . . . . .
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's almost gerontofilia to keep them around for so long, and
>>>>>>>> rebuilding them time after time....)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hahahaha. You really don't know what you are talking about do
>>>>>>> you? The vast majority of old Land Rovers are run by people
>>>>>>> who've owned them for years and barely change the oil, let alone
>>>>>>> rebuild them! Just face facts, you will never see as many old
>>>>>>> Toyotas on the roads as you will Land Rovers because Toymotas
>>>>>>> aren't designed to last.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know the staggering amount of ads for complete replacement
>>>>>> frames, bulkheads etc etc....you won't find that for Land
>>>>>> Cruisers.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Of course you won't - there are tens of thousands of 40 year old
>>>>> Land Rovers about that finally need repairs - how many 40 year old
>>>>> toymotas are there? Five or six?
>>>>
>>>> Never been to Africa/Afghanistan/Pakistan, eh?
>>>> (actually, Afghanistan/Yemen were the first Cruiser export markets
>>>> ever)
>>>>
>>> You keep asking the same question. Africa - yes, Afghanistan - no,
>>> Pakistan - yes.
>>>
>>>> Btw, noticed what kind of 4wd taxi they use in Iraq?
>>>> FJ55.
>>>
>>> Poor things - they don't have much choice in Iraq at the moment and
>>> have to use whatever is available.
>>
>> But they had *every* choice when these where bought ('67-79).
>> Yet they choose TLC, not LR.
>>
> And then replaced them with Stage 1 109's in 1979. . . . . .

No, they kept using these FJ55's till this very day....)

>> Actually, I have been in contact with a Pakistani non-profit
>> organisation, who wanted to use an EU-gift on vehicles, which had to
>> be EU-made (gotta love those EU-bureaucrats).
>> They wanted everything *but* a LR....they begged and plead if I
>> *really* didn't know any Toyota 4x4 made in Europe....I even tried
>> talking them into the new Santana Annibal, getting rid of most of the
>> sick details, but they still didn't want to budge....
>> Can you imagine, money for free to buy LR's, but instead using money
>> out of their own pockets to buy TLC's?....)
>>
> No. like most of your posts i can't believe it and you don't seem able
> to back them up either.

Better believe me.
Even Pakistani abroad have faith in Google (and me)....)
Boy, that was one of the saddest messages I ever had to convey, with
bleeding heart....stupid EU-bureaucrats!

>>>> Haven't seen much LR's there, have you?
>>>>
>>> You've obviously never been there or you would have seen tens of
>>> thousands of Land Rovers. Saddam Hussein bought huge numbers of LWB
>>> Stage 1 V8's for his army and then many 110, most of which were in
>>> service until the recent war! ;-)
>>
>> See, he lost....)))
>>
> He lost to other Land Rovers, not jap plastic-fantastic disposables.

You mean diesel vs gasoline?
Fair deal, fair defeat....)

>>> You also see many Land Rovers which are locally assembled in Turkey
>>> and shipped in through Mosul. If you watched any TV during the recent
>>> conflict you will have seen US special forces in the north of the
>>> country using civvy-spec white LR Defender TD5 double cabs to support
>>> the Kurdish militias, a vehicle which the US spec ops universally
>>> praised as superior to humvees for that role. . . . .
>>
>> No you don't, you see much more Toyota pickups, Hilux & Cruiser....)
>>
> Yes you do.

Don't be childish, you look away when you see a Toyota on the screen, that
doesn't count.

>>>>> There is no point having a strong parts supply
>>>>> for jap stuff when they don't last long enough to need the parts is
>>>>> there?
>>>>
>>>> Tell them in Iraq....)
>>>>
>>> You think any of the Iraqi toymotas are 40 years old? Ten at the most
>>> and thats only because they don't get wet and rust away in the gulf.
>>
>> Those FJ55's are 25-35 years old by now.
>> Spending their entire life as taxi....
>>
> I'm afraid not, there are hardly any 55's left and those that do survive
> are usually on their 3rd engine and 4th gearbox.

You didn't watch much TV during the heat of the battle then....I have seen
more than 10 of them, every line of waiting cars outside major cities
contained at least one of these white/orange FJ55's.
I even have a collection of close-up pix from an Cruiser-buddy war-
photographer, shot somewhere in the north of Iraq.

Plus a shot & burned carcass, which only an FJ55-owner will
recognize....;((

>>>>>> Btw, read a lovely report on a mailinglist, doing research on the
>>>>>> origin of a capstan winch, from his father in law....someone
>>>>>> suggested Land Rover....but that was dismissed quickly, because
>>>>>> his father in law was by far not rich enough to keep up with
>>>>>> maintenance cost....)
>>>>>
>>>>> Sure you did. Keeping a LR serviced is a hell of a lot cheaper than
>>>>> buying a new jap thing every few years and much better for the
>>>>> environment. . . . . .
>>>>
>>>> Since when is a puddle of oil good for the environment?....)))
>>>
>>> Since according to the EU 92% of the entire pollution associated
>>> with a cars life is generated during its production, not from its
>>> engine during its running life. Therefore my 40 year old LR with a
>>> little oil leak is infinitely more environmentally friendly that
>>> your much newer and regularly replaced tin japbox.
>>
>> No EU-commission will have imagined or even considered a modern
>> vehicle that leaks more crap standing still than it will ever emit
>> through the exhaust....)
>
> Try to keep up - not standing still, but during the manufacturing of the
> vehicle far more pollution is realeased than during it's life, so your
> jap kiddy-cars aren't very green.

They still probably waste more oil during production to find all the out-
of-spec leaks and missing plugs than during actual life & service....)

Hey, fair is fair, I missed a few plugs once too, but that was in a
military personel-carrier track....when crossing a deep puddle, it
mysteriously didn't float that well, and we had to take a few 100kg's of
mud home. One of my barets still sits way tighter than the other....)

--
Bye,

Willem-Jan Markerink

The desire to understand
is sometimes far less intelligent than
the inability to understand

<[email protected]>
[note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!]

Willem-Jan Markerink wrote:
> "Exit" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> Willem-Jan Markerink wrote:
>>> "Exit" <[email protected]> wrote in news:r6OBb.28829$Y72.9546@news-
>>> lhr.blueyonder.co.uk:
>>>
>>>> Willem - I can't see any point myself, but if you wish to carry on
>>>> this 'discussion' nominate somewhere else as I think we might be
>>>> boring the regulars by now!
>>>>
>>>
>>> Nono, silence from others is good....they very well know how to
>>> protest, so this is an endorsement....)
>>
>> Well, if you're happy to keep losing every point don't say I didn't
>> give you a way out. . . . .
>>
>
> I never said it was an endorsement for you....)

You didn't need to, it was implicit.

--
Julian
---------
= Pretentious Sig required =

Willem-Jan Markerink wrote:
> "Exit" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> Willem-Jan Markerink wrote:
>>> "Exit" <[email protected]> wrote in
>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>
>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Never been to Africa, eh?....)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Plenty of times - it's nice and dry - suits jap stuff.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And talking offroad: since when can stock LR-axles take
>>>>>>>>>>> lockers without snapping like pretzels?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Since when have they needed them? I realise the jappies have
>>>>>>>>>> such little axle travel you need to fit lockers to drive up a
>>>>>>>>>> kerb, but properly designed off-roaders don't.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nonsense, even on a flat surface you can get stuck on a patch
>>>>>>>>> of ice on one side.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In a toyota.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I knew different laws of hydraulics applied to LR's, but
>>>>>>> different rules of reology too?....)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Reology?
>>>
>>> It never hurts to have a dictionary at hand....)
>>>
>> I know what it means, I can't see the relevance to your point.
>> Perhaps you have used the wrong word?
>
> No, it's all about the art & science of friction....)
>
Indeed, but I never claimed the laws of physics varied between vehicles,
merely that one vehicle may make a particular slope when another doesn't.

>>>>>>> Nobody gets anywhere with only a length-wise locked drivetrain
>>>>>>> on a hill with the left side on dry road, and the right side on
>>>>>>> a strip of ice.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Typical sweeping generalisation - depends on many things such as
>>>>>> weight, tyres, angle of slope, but you certainly don't need a
>>>>>> locker. Bog standard Freelander with ETC will get up it easily.
>>>>>
>>>>> No, it will stall on a slope that is half as steep as with
>>>>> lockers. ETC wastes 50% of torque by definition.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/tad_elec.htm
>>>>>
>>>> Only relevant if you do not have excess power - the Freelander has
>>>> more than enough power to allow a 50% loss and still move. All cars
>>>> do.
>>>
>>> No Tcase-less vehicle has enough power to waste 50% on a slope, not
>>> loaded to GVW, even less with trailer.
>>
>> What rubbish, of course they have - a Freelander V6 has 175hp -
>> 87.5hp is still quite enough to pull it up a slope in 1st.
>
> *A* slope, but not a gnarly slope.
> Murphy says *a* slope does not exist....it must be gnarly.
>
Moving the goalposts again as you concede the point.

>>> (you do know that the EU tow-ratings are based on multiple starts on
>>> a 12% slope, don't you?)
>>>
>> Yes I do, but you are going off at a tangent - you loose the point
>> and try to include towing when it was never mentioned.
>
> Hook up that trailer and try your patch of ice again, now with 50%
> loss of torque. Your max-gnarly hill has now been reduced to 6%.
>
Random introduction of trailer to mask yet another point you have lost. The
Dutch are quite good footballers; is it because they also keep moving the
posts?

>>>>>>>>>>> We once had a 109, and in the end we started stocking those
>>>>>>>>>>> halfshafts ourselves....even looking at the 4wd button on
>>>>>>>>>>> hard pavement was enough to hear it pop....)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I can't be held responsible for your incompetence. They are
>>>>>>>>>> strong enough for the British Army, it must be you who is
>>>>>>>>>> wrong. Tell me which decent armies use Toyotas then?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Never been to Africa, eh?....)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Plenty of times, can't you read?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Western armies like to spend time & money on
>>>>>>> maintenance....African armies don't....)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> So they buy the cheapest crap they can, use it very little
>>>>>> (certainly not abroad!) and replace regularly!
>>>>>
>>>>> That's the funny thing....they don't replace regularly.
>>>>> (not do they have to because spare-parts supply for that era runs
>>>>> dry....every customized-vehicle army has no choice)
>>>>>
>>>> Proper armies need proper vehicles - mickey mouse armies can get ny
>>>> with toyotas et al.
>>>
>>> You mean this?....)
>>>
>>> http://img5.photobucket.com/albums/v15/fj40dana/quacker.jpg
>>>
>> No, thats a donald duck motor - cockney rhyming slang.
>
> But at least it doesn't waggle like a RR without antiswaybars....)
>
If you want axle travel you get body roll. Toyotas don't usually have have
axle travel and thus don't roll when on the school run or the supermarket
car park. Here's a webpage that shows of all the cars tested a standard 1992
Range Rover had more axle travel than any other vehicle all except one of
the modded and lifted vehicles. The 92 TLC gets a reasonable score, but all
the other toymotas are poor, which is why they need their lockers so badly
to compensate.

http://www.offroaders.com/info/tech-corner/rti.htm

>>>
>>>>>>>>> The Humvee also only survives in the US-army because they have
>>>>>>>>> plenty of repair/maintenance on hand, in the field. Ask
>>>>>>>>> civilian Hummer owners....) African armies don't like that
>>>>>>>>> concept either, so they choose Toyota.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't have a Hummvee. Very impressive - african armies - LOL!
>>>>>>>> And don't forget the Taliban - LMAO!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Heck, even the probably richest army in the world,
>>>>>>>>> Saoudi-Arabia and/or Oman, uses huge fleets of Toyota's (and
>>>>>>>>> Pinzgauers), not LR.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bwhahahahahaha. Let me think - how many important wars have
>>>>>>>> those armies won? Proper armies don't use toymotas, just these
>>>>>>>> little ****ant ones that never go to war like the ones you
>>>>>>>> list. PS - the Pinzgauer is British now. . . . . .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yeah, and all of a sudden they can't make a decent manual 5sp
>>>>>>> anymore....even a generic EU-homologation seems out of the
>>>>>>> window currently....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why EU homologate a fighting machine - EU countries like to hide
>>>>>> under the bed when war comes. . . . . .
>>>>>
>>>>> The Austrian-made Pinzgauer & Haflinger were readily available for
>>>>> the civil market....
>>>>>
>>>> And the Pinz is now sold only for military purposes as civvy sales
>>>> were disappointing before the UK bought the design.
>>>
>>> Odd, given the amount of ambulances & firefighter vehicles....)
>>>
>> Far less pinz ambulance and firefighter vehicles than Defender based
>> variants, so why bother with a stronger home competitor.
>
>
>
>>>>>>> Anyway, buying Teutonic inventions is always easier than doing
>>>>>>> your own commercial failure, like with the FC101....)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> You talk more and more rubbish - how can the 101 be a commercial
>>>>>> failure when it was never commercially available - it was to
>>>>>> special military order only like the lightweight, both of which
>>>>>> your country bought when you still had an army. . . . .
>>>>>
>>>>> We never had the FC101.
>>>>> And good military designs always trickle down to the civil market
>>>>>
>>>> You did, the Dutch Army bought 8 radio bodied 101's in 1979.
>>>
>>> Pff, what a success....they tested the Volvo C30x too, it even got a
>>> specific model-code.
>>>
>> You still bought them. 8 is a lot for your tiny little army.
>
> Our army make mistakes, okay?!?....)
>
Yes, they didn't buy any more. . . . . . .

>>>>>> As for buying teutonic inventions, it beats buying jap ones, but
>>>>>> then I guess it's very hard to buy a Dutch 4x4. . . . .
>>>>>
>>>>> The first ever 4wd was Dutch my dear....
>>>>> Fulltime too, like you wanted....)
>>>>> Next year a century old.
>>>>>
>>>> And look how succesful it was!
>>>
>>> Indeed, it won the race/challenge at that time....)
>>>
>> And you can buy one now?
>
> Well, there was only one made....)
> But luckily it survived, in a Dutch museum.
>
Must be better built than a Toyota if it's still around. . . . . .

>>>>>>>>>>>>> I mean, it's better to order a fiberglass, alloy or SS
>>>>>>>>>>>>> replica Cruiser body than start the other way
>>>>>>>>>>>>> around....)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Good grief - it's embarrassing enough to be seen in a
>>>>>>>>>>>> Toyota, let alone extending their life beyond the normal 5
>>>>>>>>>>>> years by fitting a body made out of the same stuff as the
>>>>>>>>>>>> dashboard. . . . . . :-(
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> At least you can bang your head on it, when (not if) you
>>>>>>>>>>> have a stuck LR blocking your way for the gazillionst
>>>>>>>>>>> time....)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Only Toymotas I see are on the end of a rope attached to my
>>>>>>>>>> nato hitch while I pull them out of muddy car parks and other
>>>>>>>>>> such difficult terrain.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That's how we snapped half-shafts on our 109 too, by
>>>>>>>>> towing....)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well I never have and all those toymotas I tow out with all
>>>>>>>> that chrome and velour seats are heavy you know - maybe you
>>>>>>>> should learn to drive.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But pray tell, why are there dozens of aftermarket halfshafts
>>>>>>> for LR's available, and virtually none for TLC's?....)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Because TLC's don't get old enough to repair, you just buy
>>>>>> another disposable jap motor.
>>>>>
>>>>> But why then repair a LR from tip to toe?
>>>>>
>>>> You don't need to, mine has had veryl little done in over 40 years,
>>>> all major components are original.
>>>
>>> See, that's the difference.
>>> Toyota's are used for their intended purpose, often ten times worse.
>>> LR's are only conservated, because that's the only thing you can do
>>> with them....)
>>>
>> 307,000 miles plus 11 years army service 'conservated'?????? All that
>> plastic in your toymota must be going to your head!
>
> With how many rebuilds, pray tell?....)
>
None, it is still all on its original components - no rebuilds, rebores or
replacements, just servicing and items like seals, bushes etc and a new
carb. The engine is tired now though and in another 50k miles she might need
some headwork, but she's just passed her annual MOT test on emmissions so
she can't be too bad. Only three weeks ago the old lady was pulling a shiny
Hilux Surf out of a Welsh peat bog halfway up a mountain. Interesting to
note that although the Hilux was over thirty years younger it still had the
same basic design as my old girl - cart springs, drum brakes etc, etc.

>>>>>>> And why can't no aftermarket locker survive on a stock LR
>>>>>>> halfshaft, and why even with a locker a TLC still doesn't need
>>>>>>> an aftermarket halfshaft?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Because Toyotas have no axle travel, they had to design them to
>>>>>> take lockers, LR's don't suffer this problem so didn't need such
>>>>>> axles.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is that why KAM-Differentials got UK-military orders for their
>>>>> cable locker?....)
>>>>>
>>>> Not for fitment to LR's they didn't.
>
> Yes they did.
> Cable-operation plus manual-override on the axle itself was
> supposedly a NATO-requirement/wish.
>
Nope. Stayed on the wish list, was never implemented.

>>>>>>>>>>>>> The only sad thing is that they don't offer complete
>>>>>>>>>>>>> fiber/alloy/SS FJ55 bodies....;((
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (but even in misery-climate UK several have
>>>>>>>>>>>>> survived....)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> True, but then Toymotas just aren't up to harsh climates
>>>>>>>>>>>> like Britain - best keep them in a heated garage if you
>>>>>>>>>>>> want then to last. . . ;-)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Or hose them off every day, like in the military, you
>>>>>>>>>>> cheater!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You could hose your jap toys off every hour, they will still
>>>>>>>>>> get towed to the scrappy by a LR 3 or 4 times their age
>>>>>>>>>> eventually. . . . . .
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It's almost gerontofilia to keep them around for so long, and
>>>>>>>>> rebuilding them time after time....)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hahahaha. You really don't know what you are talking about do
>>>>>>>> you? The vast majority of old Land Rovers are run by people
>>>>>>>> who've owned them for years and barely change the oil, let
>>>>>>>> alone rebuild them! Just face facts, you will never see as
>>>>>>>> many old Toyotas on the roads as you will Land Rovers because
>>>>>>>> Toymotas aren't designed to last.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I know the staggering amount of ads for complete replacement
>>>>>>> frames, bulkheads etc etc....you won't find that for Land
>>>>>>> Cruisers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course you won't - there are tens of thousands of 40 year old
>>>>>> Land Rovers about that finally need repairs - how many 40 year
>>>>>> old toymotas are there? Five or six?
>>>>>
>>>>> Never been to Africa/Afghanistan/Pakistan, eh?
>>>>> (actually, Afghanistan/Yemen were the first Cruiser export markets
>>>>> ever)
>>>>>
>>>> You keep asking the same question. Africa - yes, Afghanistan - no,
>>>> Pakistan - yes.
>>>>
>>>>> Btw, noticed what kind of 4wd taxi they use in Iraq?
>>>>> FJ55.
>>>>
>>>> Poor things - they don't have much choice in Iraq at the moment and
>>>> have to use whatever is available.
>>>
>>> But they had *every* choice when these where bought ('67-79).
>>> Yet they choose TLC, not LR.
>>>
>> And then replaced them with Stage 1 109's in 1979. . . . . .
>
> No, they kept using these FJ55's till this very day....)
>
Only the poor sods who couldn't get his hands on a V8. The 55's left are a
handful now.

>>> Actually, I have been in contact with a Pakistani non-profit
>>> organisation, who wanted to use an EU-gift on vehicles, which had to
>>> be EU-made (gotta love those EU-bureaucrats).
>>> They wanted everything *but* a LR....they begged and plead if I
>>> *really* didn't know any Toyota 4x4 made in Europe....I even tried
>>> talking them into the new Santana Annibal, getting rid of most of
>>> the sick details, but they still didn't want to budge....
>>> Can you imagine, money for free to buy LR's, but instead using money
>>> out of their own pockets to buy TLC's?....)
>>>
>> No. like most of your posts i can't believe it and you don't seem
>> able to back them up either.
>
> Better believe me.
> Even Pakistani abroad have faith in Google (and me)....)
> Boy, that was one of the saddest messages I ever had to convey, with
> bleeding heart....stupid EU-bureaucrats!
>
Post a link if you want believing, otherwise keep your fantasies to
yourself.

>>>>> Haven't seen much LR's there, have you?
>>>>>
>>>> You've obviously never been there or you would have seen tens of
>>>> thousands of Land Rovers. Saddam Hussein bought huge numbers of LWB
>>>> Stage 1 V8's for his army and then many 110, most of which were in
>>>> service until the recent war! ;-)
>>>
>>> See, he lost....)))
>>>
>> He lost to other Land Rovers, not jap plastic-fantastic disposables.
>
> You mean diesel vs gasoline?
> Fair deal, fair defeat....)
>
What difference does that make in the desert? They are hardly going to be
doing much deep water fording are they? ;-)

>>>> You also see many Land Rovers which are locally assembled in Turkey
>>>> and shipped in through Mosul. If you watched any TV during the
>>>> recent conflict you will have seen US special forces in the north
>>>> of the country using civvy-spec white LR Defender TD5 double cabs
>>>> to support the Kurdish militias, a vehicle which the US spec ops
>>>> universally praised as superior to humvees for that role. . . . .
>>>
>>> No you don't, you see much more Toyota pickups, Hilux &
>>> Cruiser....)
>>>
>> Yes you do.
>
> Don't be childish, you look away when you see a Toyota on the screen,
> that doesn't count.
>
I don't look away, but the chrome and two-tone paint on those gin-palaces
you pretend are off-roaders does tend to blind one somewhat. . . .

>>>>>> There is no point having a strong parts supply
>>>>>> for jap stuff when they don't last long enough to need the parts
>>>>>> is there?
>>>>>
>>>>> Tell them in Iraq....)
>>>>>
>>>> You think any of the Iraqi toymotas are 40 years old? Ten at the
>>>> most and thats only because they don't get wet and rust away in
>>>> the gulf.
>>>
>>> Those FJ55's are 25-35 years old by now.
>>> Spending their entire life as taxi....
>>>
>> I'm afraid not, there are hardly any 55's left and those that do
>> survive are usually on their 3rd engine and 4th gearbox.
>
> You didn't watch much TV during the heat of the battle then....I have
> seen more than 10 of them, every line of waiting cars outside major
> cities contained at least one of these white/orange FJ55's.
> I even have a collection of close-up pix from an Cruiser-buddy war-
> photographer, shot somewhere in the north of Iraq.
>
I watched it very carefully to see if I could spot any of our brave dutch
allies helping out, but sadly saw none whether in a Toyota or not.

One per city, yep that sounds about how many are left now.

I'd love to see those pics - post a url will you?

> Plus a shot & burned carcass, which only an FJ55-owner will
> recognize....;((
>
Same old story - successful and powerful western army uses LR and wins,
third world dictator uses any crap, even toyota and loses. You must be so
proud!

>>>>>>> Btw, read a lovely report on a mailinglist, doing research on
>>>>>>> the origin of a capstan winch, from his father in law....someone
>>>>>>> suggested Land Rover....but that was dismissed quickly, because
>>>>>>> his father in law was by far not rich enough to keep up with
>>>>>>> maintenance cost....)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sure you did. Keeping a LR serviced is a hell of a lot cheaper
>>>>>> than buying a new jap thing every few years and much better for
>>>>>> the environment. . . . . .
>>>>>
>>>>> Since when is a puddle of oil good for the environment?....)))
>>>>
>>>> Since according to the EU 92% of the entire pollution associated
>>>> with a cars life is generated during its production, not from its
>>>> engine during its running life. Therefore my 40 year old LR with a
>>>> little oil leak is infinitely more environmentally friendly that
>>>> your much newer and regularly replaced tin japbox.
>>>
>>> No EU-commission will have imagined or even considered a modern
>>> vehicle that leaks more crap standing still than it will ever emit
>>> through the exhaust....)
>>
>> Try to keep up - not standing still, but during the manufacturing of
>> the vehicle far more pollution is realeased than during it's life,
>> so your jap kiddy-cars aren't very green.
>
> They still probably waste more oil during production to find all the
> out- of-spec leaks and missing plugs than during actual life &
> service....)
>
Probably, maybe, perhaps. Thats all you do isn't it - guessing? I can
understand the innate sense of inferiority driving your jappy thing
instills, but please try to support your automotive racism with a little
more fact and a little less verbal diahorrea.

> Hey, fair is fair, I missed a few plugs once too, but that was in a
> military personel-carrier track....when crossing a deep puddle, it
> mysteriously didn't float that well, and we had to take a few 100kg's
> of mud home. One of my barets still sits way tighter than the
> other....)

If you knew anything about off-roading you would know that a floating
vehicle has no traction - it must sink to ford water successfully though of
course I realise that being totally flat the Dutch idea of difficult
off-roading is a puddle you could drive a mini through without dirtying the
alloys. If 'baret' is an English word, it's not in my dictionary, please
illucidate.

And remember the words from the Toyota advert - '. . . .the car in front is
a Toyota. . . .' coz it's bloody stuck again!

--
Julian
---------
= Pretentious Sig required =

The Ancient One wrote:
> "Willem-Jan Markerink" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> "Exit" <[email protected]> wrote in news:r6OBb.28829$Y72.9546@news-
>> lhr.blueyonder.co.uk:
>>
>>> Willem - I can't see any point myself, but if you wish to carry on
>>> this 'discussion' nominate somewhere else as I think we might be
>>> boring the regulars by now!
>>>
>>
>> Nono, silence from others is good....they very well know how to
>> protest, so this is an endorsement....)
>>
>
> I for one find it enjoyable reading, and I see no winner at present,
> you're both doing fine.
>
>> --

Don't get too carried away, we may move this to pay per view!

--
Julian
---------
= Pretentious Sig required =

"Exit" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Willem-Jan Markerink wrote:
>> "Exit" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> Willem-Jan Markerink wrote:
>>>> "Exit" <[email protected]> wrote in
>>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>>
>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Never been to Africa, eh?....)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Plenty of times - it's nice and dry - suits jap stuff.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And talking offroad: since when can stock LR-axles take
>>>>>>>>>>>> lockers without snapping like pretzels?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Since when have they needed them? I realise the jappies have
>>>>>>>>>>> such little axle travel you need to fit lockers to drive up a
>>>>>>>>>>> kerb, but properly designed off-roaders don't.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nonsense, even on a flat surface you can get stuck on a patch
>>>>>>>>>> of ice on one side.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In a toyota.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I knew different laws of hydraulics applied to LR's, but
>>>>>>>> different rules of reology too?....)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Reology?
>>>>
>>>> It never hurts to have a dictionary at hand....)
>>>>
>>> I know what it means, I can't see the relevance to your point.
>>> Perhaps you have used the wrong word?
>>
>> No, it's all about the art & science of friction....)
>>
> Indeed, but I never claimed the laws of physics varied between vehicles,
> merely that one vehicle may make a particular slope when another
> doesn't.

Yep, one with axle-lockers does, the one without doesn't.
Pray tell, why did they left out the manual center diff locker on a
previous generation Discovery, but quickly reimplemented it?....same
concept, same solution....what spins front/rear can spin left/right.

>>>>>>>> Nobody gets anywhere with only a length-wise locked drivetrain
>>>>>>>> on a hill with the left side on dry road, and the right side on
>>>>>>>> a strip of ice.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Typical sweeping generalisation - depends on many things such as
>>>>>>> weight, tyres, angle of slope, but you certainly don't need a
>>>>>>> locker. Bog standard Freelander with ETC will get up it easily.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, it will stall on a slope that is half as steep as with
>>>>>> lockers. ETC wastes 50% of torque by definition.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/tad_elec.htm
>>>>>>
>>>>> Only relevant if you do not have excess power - the Freelander has
>>>>> more than enough power to allow a 50% loss and still move. All cars
>>>>> do.
>>>>
>>>> No Tcase-less vehicle has enough power to waste 50% on a slope, not
>>>> loaded to GVW, even less with trailer.
>>>
>>> What rubbish, of course they have - a Freelander V6 has 175hp -
>>> 87.5hp is still quite enough to pull it up a slope in 1st.
>>
>> *A* slope, but not a gnarly slope.
>> Murphy says *a* slope does not exist....it must be gnarly.
>>
> Moving the goalposts again as you concede the point.

That's the fun of offroad: there are no goalposts....)

>>>> (you do know that the EU tow-ratings are based on multiple starts on
>>>> a 12% slope, don't you?)
>>>>
>>> Yes I do, but you are going off at a tangent - you loose the point
>>> and try to include towing when it was never mentioned.
>>
>> Hook up that trailer and try your patch of ice again, now with 50%
>> loss of torque. Your max-gnarly hill has now been reduced to 6%.
>>
> Random introduction of trailer to mask yet another point you have lost.
> The Dutch are quite good footballers; is it because they also keep
> moving the posts?

You did not get that axle-locker to tackle best-case scenario's my
dear....not as long as Murphy is around....)
For best-case scenario's you don't need 4wd or low-range at all.

>>>>>>>>>>>> We once had a 109, and in the end we started stocking those
>>>>>>>>>>>> halfshafts ourselves....even looking at the 4wd button on
>>>>>>>>>>>> hard pavement was enough to hear it pop....)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I can't be held responsible for your incompetence. They are
>>>>>>>>>>> strong enough for the British Army, it must be you who is
>>>>>>>>>>> wrong. Tell me which decent armies use Toyotas then?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Never been to Africa, eh?....)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Plenty of times, can't you read?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Western armies like to spend time & money on
>>>>>>>> maintenance....African armies don't....)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So they buy the cheapest crap they can, use it very little
>>>>>>> (certainly not abroad!) and replace regularly!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's the funny thing....they don't replace regularly.
>>>>>> (not do they have to because spare-parts supply for that era runs
>>>>>> dry....every customized-vehicle army has no choice)
>>>>>>
>>>>> Proper armies need proper vehicles - mickey mouse armies can get ny
>>>>> with toyotas et al.
>>>>
>>>> You mean this?....)
>>>>
>>>> http://img5.photobucket.com/albums/v15/fj40dana/quacker.jpg
>>>>
>>> No, thats a donald duck motor - cockney rhyming slang.
>>
>> But at least it doesn't waggle like a RR without antiswaybars....)
>>
> If you want axle travel you get body roll. Toyotas don't usually have
> have axle travel and thus don't roll when on the school run or the
> supermarket car park. Here's a webpage that shows of all the cars tested
> a standard 1992 Range Rover had more axle travel than any other vehicle
> all except one of the modded and lifted vehicles. The 92 TLC gets a
> reasonable score, but all the other toymotas are poor, which is why they
> need their lockers so badly to compensate.
>
> http://www.offroaders.com/info/tech-corner/rti.htm

Then why did Rover invent a dynamic/hydraulic antiswaybar on the
Disco?....)

>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The Humvee also only survives in the US-army because they have
>>>>>>>>>> plenty of repair/maintenance on hand, in the field. Ask
>>>>>>>>>> civilian Hummer owners....) African armies don't like that
>>>>>>>>>> concept either, so they choose Toyota.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't have a Hummvee. Very impressive - african armies - LOL!
>>>>>>>>> And don't forget the Taliban - LMAO!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Heck, even the probably richest army in the world,
>>>>>>>>>> Saoudi-Arabia and/or Oman, uses huge fleets of Toyota's (and
>>>>>>>>>> Pinzgauers), not LR.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bwhahahahahaha. Let me think - how many important wars have
>>>>>>>>> those armies won? Proper armies don't use toymotas, just these
>>>>>>>>> little ****ant ones that never go to war like the ones you
>>>>>>>>> list. PS - the Pinzgauer is British now. . . . . .
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yeah, and all of a sudden they can't make a decent manual 5sp
>>>>>>>> anymore....even a generic EU-homologation seems out of the
>>>>>>>> window currently....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why EU homologate a fighting machine - EU countries like to hide
>>>>>>> under the bed when war comes. . . . . .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Austrian-made Pinzgauer & Haflinger were readily available for
>>>>>> the civil market....
>>>>>>
>>>>> And the Pinz is now sold only for military purposes as civvy sales
>>>>> were disappointing before the UK bought the design.
>>>>
>>>> Odd, given the amount of ambulances & firefighter vehicles....)
>>>>
>>> Far less pinz ambulance and firefighter vehicles than Defender based
>>> variants, so why bother with a stronger home competitor.
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>>>> Anyway, buying Teutonic inventions is always easier than doing
>>>>>>>> your own commercial failure, like with the FC101....)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You talk more and more rubbish - how can the 101 be a commercial
>>>>>>> failure when it was never commercially available - it was to
>>>>>>> special military order only like the lightweight, both of which
>>>>>>> your country bought when you still had an army. . . . .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We never had the FC101.
>>>>>> And good military designs always trickle down to the civil market
>>>>>>
>>>>> You did, the Dutch Army bought 8 radio bodied 101's in 1979.
>>>>
>>>> Pff, what a success....they tested the Volvo C30x too, it even got a
>>>> specific model-code.
>>>>
>>> You still bought them. 8 is a lot for your tiny little army.
>>
>> Our army make mistakes, okay?!?....)
>>
> Yes, they didn't buy any more. . . . . . .

They didn't buy Volvo's or Pinzi's, that's the worst mistake....

>>>>>>> As for buying teutonic inventions, it beats buying jap ones, but
>>>>>>> then I guess it's very hard to buy a Dutch 4x4. . . . .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The first ever 4wd was Dutch my dear....
>>>>>> Fulltime too, like you wanted....)
>>>>>> Next year a century old.
>>>>>>
>>>>> And look how succesful it was!
>>>>
>>>> Indeed, it won the race/challenge at that time....)
>>>>
>>> And you can buy one now?
>>
>> Well, there was only one made....)
>> But luckily it survived, in a Dutch museum.
>>
> Must be better built than a Toyota if it's still around. . . . . .

We like to cherish a single excellent product, instead of cherishing many
mediocre products....)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I mean, it's better to order a fiberglass, alloy or SS
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> replica Cruiser body than start the other way
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> around....)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good grief - it's embarrassing enough to be seen in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Toyota, let alone extending their life beyond the normal 5
>>>>>>>>>>>>> years by fitting a body made out of the same stuff as the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> dashboard. . . . . . :-(
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> At least you can bang your head on it, when (not if) you
>>>>>>>>>>>> have a stuck LR blocking your way for the gazillionst
>>>>>>>>>>>> time....)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Only Toymotas I see are on the end of a rope attached to my
>>>>>>>>>>> nato hitch while I pull them out of muddy car parks and other
>>>>>>>>>>> such difficult terrain.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That's how we snapped half-shafts on our 109 too, by
>>>>>>>>>> towing....)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Well I never have and all those toymotas I tow out with all
>>>>>>>>> that chrome and velour seats are heavy you know - maybe you
>>>>>>>>> should learn to drive.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But pray tell, why are there dozens of aftermarket halfshafts
>>>>>>>> for LR's available, and virtually none for TLC's?....)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Because TLC's don't get old enough to repair, you just buy
>>>>>>> another disposable jap motor.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But why then repair a LR from tip to toe?
>>>>>>
>>>>> You don't need to, mine has had veryl little done in over 40 years,
>>>>> all major components are original.
>>>>
>>>> See, that's the difference.
>>>> Toyota's are used for their intended purpose, often ten times worse.
>>>> LR's are only conservated, because that's the only thing you can do
>>>> with them....)
>>>>
>>> 307,000 miles plus 11 years army service 'conservated'?????? All that
>>> plastic in your toymota must be going to your head!
>>
>> With how many rebuilds, pray tell?....)
>>
> None, it is still all on its original components - no rebuilds, rebores
> or replacements, just servicing and items like seals, bushes etc and a
> new carb. The engine is tired now though and in another 50k miles she
> might need some headwork, but she's just passed her annual MOT test on
> emmissions so she can't be too bad. Only three weeks ago the old lady
> was pulling a shiny Hilux Surf out of a Welsh peat bog halfway up a
> mountain. Interesting to note that although the Hilux was over thirty
> years younger it still had the same basic design as my old girl - cart
> springs, drum brakes etc, etc.

See, that's what they like in thirdworld countries....springs that can be
welded back together by the local blacksmith.
But they don't like getting only 1/3rd of vehicle-width as a driver,
forcing your elbow out of the window....)

>>>>>>>> And why can't no aftermarket locker survive on a stock LR
>>>>>>>> halfshaft, and why even with a locker a TLC still doesn't need
>>>>>>>> an aftermarket halfshaft?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Because Toyotas have no axle travel, they had to design them to
>>>>>>> take lockers, LR's don't suffer this problem so didn't need such
>>>>>>> axles.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is that why KAM-Differentials got UK-military orders for their
>>>>>> cable locker?....)
>>>>>>
>>>>> Not for fitment to LR's they didn't.
>>
>> Yes they did.
>> Cable-operation plus manual-override on the axle itself was
>> supposedly a NATO-requirement/wish.
>>
> Nope. Stayed on the wish list, was never implemented.

It was more than a test, it was a significant order AFAIK, perhaps a fleet
for only a certain specialized army squadron.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The only sad thing is that they don't offer complete
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fiber/alloy/SS FJ55 bodies....;((
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (but even in misery-climate UK several have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> survived....)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> True, but then Toymotas just aren't up to harsh climates
>>>>>>>>>>>>> like Britain - best keep them in a heated garage if you
>>>>>>>>>>>>> want then to last. . . ;-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Or hose them off every day, like in the military, you
>>>>>>>>>>>> cheater!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You could hose your jap toys off every hour, they will still
>>>>>>>>>>> get towed to the scrappy by a LR 3 or 4 times their age
>>>>>>>>>>> eventually. . . . . .
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It's almost gerontofilia to keep them around for so long, and
>>>>>>>>>> rebuilding them time after time....)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hahahaha. You really don't know what you are talking about do
>>>>>>>>> you? The vast majority of old Land Rovers are run by people
>>>>>>>>> who've owned them for years and barely change the oil, let
>>>>>>>>> alone rebuild them! Just face facts, you will never see as
>>>>>>>>> many old Toyotas on the roads as you will Land Rovers because
>>>>>>>>> Toymotas aren't designed to last.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I know the staggering amount of ads for complete replacement
>>>>>>>> frames, bulkheads etc etc....you won't find that for Land
>>>>>>>> Cruisers.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Of course you won't - there are tens of thousands of 40 year old
>>>>>>> Land Rovers about that finally need repairs - how many 40 year
>>>>>>> old toymotas are there? Five or six?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Never been to Africa/Afghanistan/Pakistan, eh?
>>>>>> (actually, Afghanistan/Yemen were the first Cruiser export markets
>>>>>> ever)
>>>>>>
>>>>> You keep asking the same question. Africa - yes, Afghanistan - no,
>>>>> Pakistan - yes.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Btw, noticed what kind of 4wd taxi they use in Iraq?
>>>>>> FJ55.
>>>>>
>>>>> Poor things - they don't have much choice in Iraq at the moment and
>>>>> have to use whatever is available.
>>>>
>>>> But they had *every* choice when these where bought ('67-79).
>>>> Yet they choose TLC, not LR.
>>>>
>>> And then replaced them with Stage 1 109's in 1979. . . . . .
>>
>> No, they kept using these FJ55's till this very day....)
>>
> Only the poor sods who couldn't get his hands on a V8. The 55's left are
> a handful now.

There wouldn't have been that many on TV in that case....hundreds if not
thousands are around.

>>>> Actually, I have been in contact with a Pakistani non-profit
>>>> organisation, who wanted to use an EU-gift on vehicles, which had to
>>>> be EU-made (gotta love those EU-bureaucrats).
>>>> They wanted everything *but* a LR....they begged and plead if I
>>>> *really* didn't know any Toyota 4x4 made in Europe....I even tried
>>>> talking them into the new Santana Annibal, getting rid of most of
>>>> the sick details, but they still didn't want to budge....
>>>> Can you imagine, money for free to buy LR's, but instead using money
>>>> out of their own pockets to buy TLC's?....)
>>>>
>>> No. like most of your posts i can't believe it and you don't seem
>>> able to back them up either.
>>
>> Better believe me.
>> Even Pakistani abroad have faith in Google (and me)....)
>> Boy, that was one of the saddest messages I ever had to convey, with
>> bleeding heart....stupid EU-bureaucrats!
>>
> Post a link if you want believing, otherwise keep your fantasies to
> yourself.

Using Google to find/trust me, not me to put that conversation
online....even had a Dutch Santana dealer ready with an offer for 20 units,
but they still didn't bite....smart folks....)

>>>>>> Haven't seen much LR's there, have you?
>>>>>>
>>>>> You've obviously never been there or you would have seen tens of
>>>>> thousands of Land Rovers. Saddam Hussein bought huge numbers of LWB
>>>>> Stage 1 V8's for his army and then many 110, most of which were in
>>>>> service until the recent war! ;-)
>>>>
>>>> See, he lost....)))
>>>>
>>> He lost to other Land Rovers, not jap plastic-fantastic disposables.
>>
>> You mean diesel vs gasoline?
>> Fair deal, fair defeat....)
>>
> What difference does that make in the desert? They are hardly going to
> be doing much deep water fording are they? ;-)

You like fueling up in the heat of the battle?
The ratio is 2:1 for Cruiser gasoline vs diesel in heavy sand, and that's
with *equal* displacement.

>>>>> You also see many Land Rovers which are locally assembled in Turkey
>>>>> and shipped in through Mosul. If you watched any TV during the
>>>>> recent conflict you will have seen US special forces in the north
>>>>> of the country using civvy-spec white LR Defender TD5 double cabs
>>>>> to support the Kurdish militias, a vehicle which the US spec ops
>>>>> universally praised as superior to humvees for that role. . . . .
>>>>
>>>> No you don't, you see much more Toyota pickups, Hilux &
>>>> Cruiser....)
>>>>
>>> Yes you do.
>>
>> Don't be childish, you look away when you see a Toyota on the screen,
>> that doesn't count.
>>
> I don't look away, but the chrome and two-tone paint on those
> gin-palaces you pretend are off-roaders does tend to blind one somewhat.
> . . .

They don't sell chrome in Africa, and in the Gulf they sell goldplated
ornaments.

>>>>>>> There is no point having a strong parts supply
>>>>>>> for jap stuff when they don't last long enough to need the parts
>>>>>>> is there?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tell them in Iraq....)
>>>>>>
>>>>> You think any of the Iraqi toymotas are 40 years old? Ten at the
>>>>> most and thats only because they don't get wet and rust away in
>>>>> the gulf.
>>>>
>>>> Those FJ55's are 25-35 years old by now.
>>>> Spending their entire life as taxi....
>>>>
>>> I'm afraid not, there are hardly any 55's left and those that do
>>> survive are usually on their 3rd engine and 4th gearbox.
>>
>> You didn't watch much TV during the heat of the battle then....I have
>> seen more than 10 of them, every line of waiting cars outside major
>> cities contained at least one of these white/orange FJ55's.
>> I even have a collection of close-up pix from an Cruiser-buddy war-
>> photographer, shot somewhere in the north of Iraq.
>>
> I watched it very carefully to see if I could spot any of our brave
> dutch allies helping out, but sadly saw none whether in a Toyota or not.
>

Where did it say this Cruiser-buddy was Dutch?
There is probably only one original FJ55 left in Holland (the UK recently
lost one to Portugal btw....), so that's no source for likeminded
folks....)

> One per city, yep that sounds about how many are left now.
>
> I'd love to see those pics - post a url will you?

Don't think CNN & Co. keep their galleries online that long....
Can mail them if you want, don't have a gallery for those yet.
Even a video of the Basra statue toppling was enhanced by a FJ55 taxi
driving past in the background.

>> Plus a shot & burned carcass, which only an FJ55-owner will
>> recognize....;((
>>
> Same old story - successful and powerful western army uses LR and wins,
> third world dictator uses any crap, even toyota and loses. You must be
> so proud!

Shooting a thin-metal vehicle, that according to you already falls apart
from rust, is that fair engagement on the battlefield?....organise a tug-
of-war for crying out loud, but leave the body intact!....)

>>>>>>>> Btw, read a lovely report on a mailinglist, doing research on
>>>>>>>> the origin of a capstan winch, from his father in law....someone
>>>>>>>> suggested Land Rover....but that was dismissed quickly, because
>>>>>>>> his father in law was by far not rich enough to keep up with
>>>>>>>> maintenance cost....)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sure you did. Keeping a LR serviced is a hell of a lot cheaper
>>>>>>> than buying a new jap thing every few years and much better for
>>>>>>> the environment. . . . . .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Since when is a puddle of oil good for the environment?....)))
>>>>>
>>>>> Since according to the EU 92% of the entire pollution associated
>>>>> with a cars life is generated during its production, not from its
>>>>> engine during its running life. Therefore my 40 year old LR with a
>>>>> little oil leak is infinitely more environmentally friendly that
>>>>> your much newer and regularly replaced tin japbox.
>>>>
>>>> No EU-commission will have imagined or even considered a modern
>>>> vehicle that leaks more crap standing still than it will ever emit
>>>> through the exhaust....)
>>>
>>> Try to keep up - not standing still, but during the manufacturing of
>>> the vehicle far more pollution is realeased than during it's life,
>>> so your jap kiddy-cars aren't very green.
>>
>> They still probably waste more oil during production to find all the
>> out- of-spec leaks and missing plugs than during actual life &
>> service....)
>>
> Probably, maybe, perhaps. Thats all you do isn't it - guessing? I can
> understand the innate sense of inferiority driving your jappy thing
> instills, but please try to support your automotive racism with a little
> more fact and a little less verbal diahorrea.

Better that than ****ting oil in the driveway....)

>> Hey, fair is fair, I missed a few plugs once too, but that was in a
>> military personel-carrier track....when crossing a deep puddle, it
>> mysteriously didn't float that well, and we had to take a few 100kg's
>> of mud home. One of my barets still sits way tighter than the
>> other....)
>
> If you knew anything about off-roading you would know that a floating
> vehicle has no traction - it must sink to ford water successfully

No, a track doesn't, and with larger paddled wheels you can get forward
too.
It can and will float, but they put a ban on that after some idiot pulled
his life-vest while sinking, before leaving the vehicle.
That's why the procedure of those plugs wasn't well-trained, but it made
searching for deep water all the more fun of course....)

> though
> of course I realise that being totally flat the Dutch idea of difficult
> off-roading is a puddle you could drive a mini through without dirtying
> the alloys. If 'baret' is an English word, it's not in my dictionary,
> please illucidate.
>
> And remember the words from the Toyota advert - '. . . .the car in front
> is a Toyota. . . .' coz it's bloody stuck again!

At least its blood is still where it belongs, instead of dribbling
out....)


--
Bye,

Willem-Jan Markerink

The desire to understand
is sometimes far less intelligent than
the inability to understand

<[email protected]>
[note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!]

Willem-Jan Markerink wrote:

l, and we had to take a few 100kg's of
> mud home. One of my barets still sits way tighter than the other....)
>

Well, the color was muddy green/brown anyway, had it only been black,
your stories would carry a lot more weight ;-))))

grtz rob

rob elsjan <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

> Willem-Jan Markerink wrote:
>
> l, and we had to take a few 100kg's of
>> mud home. One of my barets still sits way tighter than the other....)
>>
>
> Well, the color was muddy green/brown anyway, had it only been black,
> your stories would carry a lot more weight ;-))))
>
> grtz rob
>
>

Nono, I *had* a black baret, not brown; tankbattalion.
The good part: always a recovery Leopard tank behind me....)
(talk about a not happy recovery crew, watching me go under....)))
(build nice ramps for us too, for some far-leap games....but they always won
on the Richter-scale....)

--
Bye,

Willem-Jan Markerink

The desire to understand
is sometimes far less intelligent than
the inability to understand

<[email protected]>
[note: 'a-one' & 'en-el'!]

Willem-Jan Markerink wrote:

> rob elsjan <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>
>
>>Willem-Jan Markerink wrote:
>>
>>l, and we had to take a few 100kg's of
>>
>>>mud home. One of my barets still sits way tighter than the other....)
>>>
>>
>>Well, the color was muddy green/brown anyway, had it only been black,
>>your stories would carry a lot more weight ;-))))
>>
>>grtz rob
>>
>>
>
>
> Nono, I *had* a black baret, not brown; tankbattalion.
> The good part: always a recovery Leopard tank behind me....)
> (talk about a not happy recovery crew, watching me go under....)))
> (build nice ramps for us too, for some far-leap games....but they always won
> on the Richter-scale....)
>

I'll look up some pics of a rather peculiar way of "inspection
undercarriage vehicle" come holidays. Just thinking about it puts a huge
grin on my face again;-))))))))

grtz rob

> > One more interesting detail of the C30x drivetrain: it's the only one
> > I know that engages 4wd (parttime, rigid front/rear connection)
> > during hard braking (and with engine off, but I believe there are a
> > few more odd 4x4's that do this (just to be sure that the parking
> > brake has maximum effect)).
> >
> > http://www.a1.nl/phomepag/markerink/4wd-engaged-when-braking.txt
> >
> Part-time 4WD is pointless - if you're going to have 4WD have it all the
> time.
>

LOL
--
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