fishsponge's ongoing thread of problems!

[davek0974]

Yes, my bad, I just realised that to get to the inner bearing the oil seal has to come out (I think).

If the outer bearing shells are rust pitted it's not worth fitting new bearings without getting these done too. This is a whole new job.

I was presuming you had a sheet FS, its the sort of crap most can find somewhere

Do you have the oil seals? They are easy to fit. As there is water in there I would guess they are shot, there is only one seal in each hub.

Dave

 

[fishsponge]

Ok, just seen the photos.

I can see a few things that worry me.

That sounds promising!

Water is present and can be seen in the pics as droplets.
There is red rust all over, this is very bad as rust makes great grinding paste and will trash bearings quickly.

I did wonder about all the rust that was in there. I expected to see grease, not rust!

You almost got there but not quite. In the photo where the lock nuts are off, if you wobbled the hub vigorously the outer bearing would or should have come tumbling out. This would have enabled to get some new grease right in there.

The hub wouldn't move much because the brake caliper was still in place, so I couldn't move it much at all. I tried to put a screwdriver down the side of the bearing to dislodge it, but nothing I tried could get it to move.

When you get the hub off, check the surface in the hub where the bearings run, this is the outer bearing shell. If there is rust pitting then you will need to get these replaced too as they will just shag a new bearing in hours. They should have a mirror surface on them.

Will do. I suspect they'll be buggered along with everything else that's screwed up on this corner, to be honest!

I would also check the diff oil.

I'll look up the procedure for that tomorrow once i've done everything else. My brain's pretty full at the moment with all this new knowledge!

Given that the swivel ball is knackered and has been since I owned it, and hasn't dripped since i've owned it, I suspect the diff is empty too.

In fact, I'm becoming suspicious of all the fluids.

My understanding is that the previous owner took it to the garage when he wanted work doing on it, but he did the "servicing" himself.

I think his definition of "servicing" was a basic oil change, because there's no way he'd have let it get into this state if he'd been doing it properly.

I'm very much tempted to just take the financial hit and put it in for a full service for peace of mind. I suspect that'll cost at least £500 what with the work that needs doing though.

Thing is, i'm becoming afraid to drive it slowly, because everything that I find wrong with it ends up uncovering a nightmare!

 

[davek0974]

You may be right, but it could hurt the wallet badly.

The thing needs to be tackled methodically and thoroughly. Getting it moving is first, get the bearing out, try gently tapping the hub with a hammer, it should just plop out, if not then caliper off and get a bit rougher with it, once that bearing is out, you will be able to assess the job re outer bearings etc.

Then do a deep and full service, all oils and filters. Get some one shot in the swivels but make a note somewhere so you don't fill up with oil next service!

Dave

 

[fishsponge]

checking the diff oil is always a good idea and for the price of one-shot, i would do the swivels, even if you intend to replace them soon.

OK, i'll buy a pair of one-shots in that case. I won't be able to do that until the car is drivable again though, unless I have them delivered, of course!

If the outer bearing shells are rust pitted it's not worth fitting new bearings without getting these done too. This is a whole new job.

one for the garage, by the sounds of it. The swivel ball, outer bearing shells, the bearings themselves, the oil seals is more than a day's work and I wouldn't even be able to start it until next weekend due to lack of parts.

I was presuming you had a sheet FS, its the sort of crap most can find somewhere

Nope! Bought our first house 4.5 years ago, moved in with nothing (hadn't had a property before) and have been accumulating crap ever since. Never bought a plastic sheet though, or even anything that comes close!

In fact, a lot of the stuff most of you guys can find "lying about", I'm 90% certain I don't have!

Do you have the oil seals? They are easy to fit. As there is water in there I would guess they are shot, there is only one seal in each hub.

Nope - I do not have oil seals. The only Land Rover parts that I own that are not on my vehicle and the plastic sill trims, the EGR valve, 2 used wheel bearing lock washers and 1 brand new one. That is it.

 

[fishsponge]

You may be right, but it could hurt the wallet badly.

That's what I'm afraid of, and I don't actually have £500 to blow on a service to be honest. I don't really have the £70 I just spent on the tools to do these wheel bearings!

Then do a deep and full service, all oils and filters. Get some one shot in the swivels but make a note somewhere so you don't fill up with oil next service!

A deep and full service, given how busy my weekends are generally could take months. It does need doing though, and the sooner the better.

Thing is... do I spend every spare moment outside underneath the land rover servicing it for the next 3 months, or do I take the hit and get it all done in a single day at a garage... oh it's tempting, and would give me a good starting point to carry on learning from!

It's also tempting to never take it off road again too. I've been off roading 5 or 6 times since I bought it in September last year. The last time was 5 Dec. Maybe that off roading is what has caused all these issues, but I assumed that these things were "built for it", so it'd be fine! The fact is though, they are built for it, but only if well maintained, which mine obviously isn't.

 

[njh2]

Hi......they are built for it but also require preventative maintenence before and after each off road trip....especially where mud is involved......i really want to help as i've been where you are but at the mo it's too late for me to drive over (2hrs 35 mins).......if you get mobile and want help with the service then i am more than happy to ehlp and or show you what to do if you can get it here but hopefully there is someone closer who will offer.

Nick.

 

[fishsponge]

thanks for the offer, Nick - it's greatly appreciated!

I wouldn't ask you to drive 2.5 hours over here though... obviously i'd refund your fuel costs and give you a free lunch plus as much tea as you can drink, but 2.5 hours is a long way!

Plus, I don't have any of the parts or fluids i need really anyway!

I've just sorted a lift into work for Monday, as a backup plan, and whether I make it drivable tomorrow or not, I think i need to book it in somewhere to give it a thorough once over. Not a full service (as that covers seat belts, batteries and lots of other stuff that's irrelevant), but everything else. Possibly an MOT at the same time too. Who knows. My decision about all that depends what happens tomorrow.

Also learned that my Dad has a tarpaulin of sorts, so if it's pouring down tomorrow, at least i'll be dry!

As for the preventative maintenance before and after each off road trip, what does that involve? i've never done any other than pressure washing...

 

[njh2]

Glad you've sorted work out......


Preventative tings...

There are many peolple who drive their cars without bothering to do a thing to them apart from what is absolutely nessacery and get away with it, and those of us who care for them and still get hassle....there is no sure fire way of beating the problems but knowing your landy and keeping an eye on things is (i think) the best way.

Cleaning all the rubbish off when you get home is the start, then re-greaseing prop shafts, checking diff oils (draining diff oil and replaceing it on an older vehicle is wise ,as oil and water don't mix and you may have some water in there), front and rear, engine oil, Check gear box and transfer box oils....if you keep a weekly check on all these on a recently bought car you can then get a feel for how much is getting used and then pre-empt likely problems....all of which means your ready for the next trip.....

Keep an eye on the drive for spotting and and get used to the different smells of the oils and that will help with spotting probs before they get too out of hand..

All of these things are fairly simple, and as i said and others have already offered, help is here if you need it, and with pictures like those you can help someone else after.....simples.

 

[davek0974]

Before...
Check oil and water, quick look at tyres etc, recovery points, fit wading plugs....

After...
Depends how dirty she is, wash much off check brakes for stones and crap, if going home in it then check lights and plates are clean. If wading then check diff oils, remove wading plugs etc, check for bent steering, split tyres etc

If regular off roading then maintenance will need to be more thorough and intensive. Mine is 99% on road so I am sticking to the 6000mile/6mnth routine.

I can see your point re the garage but I would need to find one I could trust not to rip the **** out of me.

See what happens tomorrow

Dave

 

[njh2]

....oh yes, keep a regular check on wheel bearings........ when bearings are hot and go into cool water they "suck" in as they cool quickly, which is why boat trailers are fiited with bearing savers and flushing devices....Sand, deep mud and silt is disastarous to bearings and ideally needs cleaning out everytime you encounter it....which is fairly impractical till you get home and then who wants to!

Everytime you use the pressure washer you can take lubrication away from things like swivels so keep an eye on them and anything else that needs lubrication.......

It is a busy life with a landrover...

Nick.

 

[njh2]

.......and when mine is fixed i intend to take it and get it verrrry muddy!

 

[fishsponge]

wow... quite a lot of work if you wanna do it properly then! almost takes some of the fun out of it!

funny thing is, i've never been wading so deep that it comes up above the bottom of the doors, but even at that point the diffs, prop shafts and wheel bearings are under water.

And i've been off road for 5 or 6 days in total and never checked any of that, because.... "the previous owner did his own servicing", and everything would be fine!

Well, aren't I paying the price now!

Anyway... how do you check the brakes for stones without taking the calipers off?

Does "regrease the prop shafts" actually mean "regrease the UJs"?

"Draining diff oil and replacing it on an older vehicle is wise" - after every day's off roading? and how old? 1997 disco?

Nick: do you mean change the engine oil, or check the level and colour/texture etc...?

Also, i've never checked the transfer box oil level ATF level yes, but not transfer box. Nor the diffs for that matter.

As for the amount of off roading, mine has spent an average of 25 days on the road with 1 day off road. That works out at 4% off road! not too much above the standard 6,000 mile routine.

For me, the 6,000 mile routine will be three times a year though, so I might let it lapse by a month or two every now and again.

As for finding a garage you can trust, there is one that I trust 100%, but they're not landy specific and very expensive. They are also very thorough and do a fantastic job though. I don't go there any more because they are just too expensive.

I then have three other garages which I've only heard people's reviews about, in person. They're all fantastic though. two are landy specific, one isn't, but they're all supposedly fantastic.

The best of the three (which i've heard sooooo many good reviews for) was the one that quoted £240 + VAT for brand new wheel bearings and swivel ball, which was the cheapest quote i'd had! That was Nene Overland, near Peterborough.

As for bearings "sucking" as they cool, i'd never thought about it! and on all of my off roading days i've either been through sand, deep(ish) mud and a bit of clay. None of it has come up above the bottom of the doors yet, but it has been that high on several occasions.

And you are right - it is a busy life! This is why I want a second vehicle (one I can just wreck and not have to keep road-legal), but then I'll need a trailer, a new house (to keep it somewhere) and an upgraded driving license!!

 

[njh2]

I've put answers in your text.....



Anyway... how do you check the brakes for stones without taking the calipers off?

Does "regrease the prop shafts" actually mean "regrease the UJs"?.......Yes and the sliding bits?!?!?

"Draining diff oil and replacing it on an older vehicle is wise" - after every day's off roading? and how old? 1997 disco?.......Not after every day.....maybe when you first get it to check that oil is good, but as you've drained it, you might as well out fresh back in...and then keep an eye on levels...

Nick: do you mean change the engine oil, or check the level and colour/texture etc...?......I changed mine in my 300tdi every 6,000 miles....it will be black and does this almost instantly after oil change.....don't forget filter when you do and do it as soon as you can if you have no proof that the previous owner did.....the same goes for cam belts!

Also, i've never checked the transfer box oil level ATF level yes, but not transfer box. Nor the diffs for that matter.........do it soon.

As for the amount of off roading, mine has spent an average of 25 days on the road with 1 day off road. That works out at 4% off road! not too much above the standard 6,000 mile routine.

For me, the 6,000 mile routine will be three times a year though, so I might let it lapse by a month or two every now and again.

As for finding a garage you can trust, there is one that I trust 100%, but they're not landy specific and very expensive. They are also very thorough and do a fantastic job though. I don't go there any more because they are just too expensive.

I then have three other garages which I've only heard people's reviews about, in person. They're all fantastic though. two are landy specific, one isn't, but they're all supposedly fantastic.

The best of the three (which i've heard sooooo many good reviews for) was the one that quoted £240 + VAT for brand new wheel bearings and swivel ball, which was the cheapest quote i'd had! That was Nene Overland, near Peterborough.

As for bearings "sucking" as they cool, i'd never thought about it! and on all of my off roading days i've either been through sand, deep(ish) mud and a bit of clay. None of it has come up above the bottom of the doors yet, but it has been that high on several occasions.

And you are right - it is a busy life! This is why I want a second vehicle (one I can just wreck and not have to keep road-legal), but then I'll need a trailer, a new house (to keep it somewhere) and an upgraded driving license!!
__________________

 

[Mr Noisy]

Some great info/advice there fish.

Just a shame you haven't got the gear to sort it all out with!

Best of luck though whatever happens, it really needs that front axle overhauling

Cheers, sam

 

[fishsponge]

Nick: i'll have to get myself a grease gun as well in that case!! And I have proof from the previous garage that the cambelt was done not so long ago, so that's good at least

Mr. Noisy: thanks again for your phone call! Very much appreciated! I think what i'm gonna do is sort the bearings as best I can tomorrow and then ask my local landy place if they can do a selective service (where I can choose which bits they do) ASAP and basically replace the bearings if need be and the swivel ball while they're at it.

it'll be expensive, but it'll give me a good base to start from. right now i'm cutting my mechanical teeth on something that is grinding itself to dust right in front of me and needing all manner of tools which I'm having to buy all at once!

Well, that's the plan anyway - i'll have to get some rough prices off them first and see if I actually have the money for it at all first! lol

 

[fishsponge]

right... just hit my first issue... can't get the brake caliper off!

See attached photo.

In summary, one of the two top bolts I'm supposed to undo is covered by the brake line and I therefore can't get a socket onto it.

As for spanners, I don't have any that large, but short enough to fit between it and the suspension.

Any suggestions??

 

[Mr Noisy]

Hi fish

Yeah everyone has that problem, that's land rover fitting calipers and then the lines afterwards, and, well, being land rover!

You need to carefully bend/push the line out of the way just enough to get a socket on it.

The other thing i notice is they look quite crusty. I would say that if you haven't got a 6 sided socket (instead of a 12 pointed twin hex socket - look in the end, if it has six faces you're good but if it's like a zigzag all the way round your not) then don't attempt the job - because a 6 side will grip a crusty nut, a 12 point will slip.

Best to go to halfrords and get a quality Halfords advanced 6 side or "flank drive" (even better) to undo them with. If you use a bad socket and balls it up you've got a major pita on your hands.

Have a piece of rope handy to hang the Caliper off the chassis once removed.

I find that on my 200 the breaks are 5/8" (like 16mm), your 300 abs might be different!

Cheers

 

[fishsponge]

ok... so getting to halfords isn't going to happen easily, as my car is up on axle stands! lol

plus, I can't bend the pipe out of the way... look at it from a different angle (see attached pic).

I think i'm just gonna have to loosen the bearings enough to get it 25 miles to the landy place and let them fix it all to be honest...

that may sound a little defeatist, but i'm not gonna go disconnecting brake lines etc...

 

[Mr Noisy]

In which case I'd be looking at disconnecting the Caliper, and then bending the pipe bracket on top, and tbh you could keep bending it til it snaps off even.

Try to avoid bending the copper pipe itself too much, but once it's off you can carry on with the job and make an improved bracket at some other time.

Its a lot like this with land rover, a problem comes up, you have to get around it and then modify something in future to get back to square one.

Although your modified bracket will leave the bolts clear, for next time

You can cable tie that brake pipe temporarily.

OR you can just leave it, drive slow and get it all sorted next week.

Personally I'd rather sort it out myself, for free, and then as a plus it'll be sorted for next time.

Have lots of brew breaks, keep walking away and coming back with a cool head.

All the best

 

[puppysandwich]

Just read this whole thread and there's some great advice on here. Theres not many jobs I won't tackle on my Disco, or any car for that matter within reason. I hate paying people to do things I can do myself. Nobody has ever taught me, like most people you just learn as you go. Remember necessity is the greatest teacher of all.

I enjoy working on my Disco almost as much as I enjoy driving it, I get great satisfaction from fixing and servicing it. Good luck with yours, now go and get your hands dirty. Washing up liquid mixed with a little washing powder will get the oil off later.