fishsponge's ongoing thread of problems!

[fishsponge]

that's what I was thinking too.

Well that's me buggered until sometime next week then, I'd rather not drive the thing either, now that it's squeaking too, so how i'll get to work next week i've no idea!

...and I guess i'll be paying the garage to do it now too, despite buying all the tools, because otherwise I won't be able to get the parts until next week, and won't have time until Saturday (a week today) to actually do the work. How will I get to work for the entire week actually...?!?!?

"Bugger" sums this up pretty well, I think. What I feared has happened - buying the tools has resulted in no gain (although I do have them for future), and now the Landy is stranded on my drive until I can book it into a garage and I'm stranded at home unable to get to work next week.....

 

[fishsponge]

I guess you could argue that I should have been prepared... i.e. bought new oil seals and bearings just in case, but I didn't think to do that. kicking myself now, of course.

As for taking the hub off and visually inspecting everything, i'd love to, but unless the bearings are shattered into many pieces, i'm not gonna spot anything worth mentioning.

Anyone got any ideas for what to do?? if taking the hubs off will give me a chance to get it up and running before the end of today, i'll gladly do it, but I don't have new bearings and can't get any now until next week...

suggestions/ideas very gratefully received...

 

[The Mad Hat Man]

As for taking the hub off and visually inspecting everything, i'd love to, but unless the bearings are shattered into many pieces,.

Thats is exactly the point! It sounds like you have something more serious - the only way to check is to take it off and check. if a bearing has gone, you will need seals as well.

Aint there anyone local?

 

[njh2]

Where abouts in Cambridgeshire are you, just the town will do...it may be that you are too far away as i am sharing a car at the mo but lets see.....

Nick.

 

[fishsponge]

there are places local to me, but the landy place only opens saturday mornings and not on sunday. all other places are non-land rover specific, so who knows what they'd do.

as for where i am... Huntingdon! i'm actually trying it a third time now and have nearly finished, which is good because it's getting dark slowly!

so... gimme 20 minutes, and i'll give you another report after my third test drive...

 

[njh2]

Fingers crossed....

 

[The Mad Hat Man]

when yu tighten it up again, does it tighten more, or not. What I am trying to say is can yu detect something moving more and more or does it just seem to keep tightening to the same point? yu need to ascertain whether the nuts are becoming loose, or the hub is moving.

 

[fishsponge]

i believe the nuts are coming loose, although it's hard to tell. let's just say when I take it apart each time, the lock nut isn't tight to the main nut any more and can just be undone by hand once the lock washer is hammered out of the way, and the main nut can also be undone by almost hand once the lock washer is off.

I think the way i've been hammering the lock washer may have been undoing them as i've been locking them, so i've hammered a different way this time.

as you say... fingers crossed... i've put it all together again now, and will report back in 10-15 mins after my third test drive!

 

[The Mad Hat Man]

I think the way i've been hammering the lock washer may have been undoing them as i've been locking them, so i've hammered a different way this time.
!

aint it obvious which way to tighten em?

 

[fishsponge]

yeah, of course it's obvious which way to tighten them, but when you open it all up again and see how it's loosened itself, it looks like by starting hammering on the anti-clockwise end of the taper actually loosens the nut, so when you start moving your hammer clockwise to finish it off, you are just locking what is now a loose nut.

the looseness was unnoticable when I was hammering the lock washer, but that's what happened.

anyway, i've back from the test drive now!

there is no play in the bearings any more! well... maybe a little, but it's not measurable and might be my hands playing tricks on me.

however, they are very hot indeed and still squeaked for the first 4 miles out of 6.

Bugger (again!).

 

[fishsponge]

so... admittedly they might be overtightened now, but they squeaked when they were loose too.

they never squeaked before i started fiddling with it though.

And thinking about it... it's quite hard to tell if the squeak is actually coming from the wheel or not... hard to place things like that.

Anyway, i guess my plans for tomorrow are cancelled at any rate!

And i'm giving up on it for today too. it's getting dark and i've been at this for over 6 hours now. i've not even had breakfast yet, come to think of it!

 

[njh2]

Hmmm.......Did you put fresh grease in the bearings (both sets) when you rebuilt them?

And if you didn't and you overtightened then it will get warm.

If you put fresh grease in then it sounds like your bearings are worn out......if it helps to talk to some one, pm me your number (don't put it on here) and i'll give you a ring.

Nick.

 

[fishsponge]

I put fresh grease into everything I had access to. The bearings, however, receive no fresh grease because I couldn't find a way to get the outside bearing out!

Thanks very much to Mr. Noisy who just gave me a ring! My plan for tomorrow has been cancelled anyway, so tomorrow will be spent taking the caliper off, taking the hub off and checking the bearings as suggested ...and i know about putting the two top bolts back in now too

So... even though there is no play in the bearing now that I've tightened it up, it does squeak a little when it's being driven, and after 6 miles the shaft that the circlip goes onto was too hot to touch. The housing around it (the thing with the 5 bolts through it) was nowhere near as hot though.

Also, when it's jacked up, it does spin smoothly. There is certainly some friction there, but it is smooth. There are no nasty grinding noises, or scraping.

So... I assume (and hope!) the bearings are fine and just need some new grease and tightening properly, so that's tomorrow's task.

Thanks again for all the help, people!

 

[fishsponge]

OK, so it looks like tomorrow's task now is nothing whatsoever. We're due rain all day That means i'm not going to work on Monday either, I guess.

Even more annoying because what I had planned for tomorrow isn't affected by rain, but i can't do it anyway now because I can't actually get there!

You win some, you lose some, i guess.

 

[davek0974]

Get the bearings out. By the look of that swivel ball, there will be no lubricant in the swivel or bearings.

Tightening dry bearings is not good.

Cleanliness is vital when packing bearings.

Repack both bearings, work it into the race with your fingers, clean the hub up and replace all together.

Get the tension on the first nut right, fit lock ring, finger tighten the lock nut then stick a big screwdriver through the box spanner and thigh ten the bugger up, don't fret about torque, but don't stand on the thing either, they are only thin nuts and can strip. Once you are happy with feel of the bearing, then tap the washer over being careful not to tap the nuts loose doing so.

If there is no wobble at the wheel edge at all, then in my opinion, it is too tight. There is an end float figure but it is practically impossible to measure without some equipment.

If you repack both races and it still squeaks then it's not the bearings, my money will be on a shagged cv joint due to no oil. With a swivel in that condition, it should be ****ing oil all over, the lack of mess leads me to think there is no oil in there.

 

[fishsponge]

First of all, despite my failure, I did take photos...

More photos can be found here: Land Rover Maintenance | Richard Hobbs

Anyway... on to the matter at hand...

will i need new oil seals if i take the bearings out? presumably not if they are fine.

As for the swivel, it hasn't leaked oil since i've had it, so I assume it's empty. I could get a one-shot, but it needs replacing anyway.

Can the grease from the bearings end up in the swivel ball? i.e. will it all disappear over time?

Also, what should I clean the bearings with? just a clean rag?

I suspect when the bearings are sorted, the squeak will go away because it was never there before I started fiddling with it.

Anyway... I don't think i'll be doing any of this myself unless the forecast changes for tomorrow! You can't do work like this in the pouring rain - it'll mix with the grease, and if I can't get it done tomorrow, my only choice is to book it into a garage due to me needing to get to work all week

 

[davek0974]

will i need new oil seals if i take the bearings out? presumably not if they are fine.

As for the swivel, it hasn't leaked oil since i've had it, so I assume it's empty. I could get a one-shot, but it needs replacing anyway.

Can the grease from the bearings end up in the swivel ball? i.e. will it all disappear over time?

Also, what should I clean the bearings with? just a clean rag?

I suspect when the bearings are sorted, the squeak will go away because it was never there before I started fiddling with it.

Anyway... I don't think i'll be doing any of this myself unless the forecast changes for tomorrow! You can't do work like this in the pouring rain - it'll mix with the grease, and if I can't get it done tomorrow, my only choice is to book it into a garage due to me needing to get to work all week

No you won't need new seals, even if they are shot, now you know what to do, fitting new ones is a doddle.

No the grease can't reach the swivels, it's self contained.

Yes clean them with clean rag, an old t shirt is good.

Have you checked the diff oil? This can reach the swivels sometimes and if that's all gone you will be in trouble.

Why should weather stop play, if it's important, just get an old plastic sheet, shut it in the bonnet or stuff a couple of bricks on the wing to hold t, then pull the other end out into a mini tent, two more bricks to hold and you're away. Not saying it will be luxury but needs must. If it meant missing work, I would try and find a way to get it fixed.

 

[davek0974]

Ok, just seen the photos.

I can see a few things that worry me.

Water is present and can be seen in the pics as droplets.
There is red rust all over, this is very bad as rust makes great grinding paste and will trash bearings quickly.
You almost got there but not quite. In the photo where the lock nuts are off, if you wobbled the hub vigorously the outer bearing would or should have come tumbling out. This would have enabled to get some new grease right in there.

When you get the hub off, check the surface in the hub where the bearings run, this is the outer bearing shell. If there is rust pitting then you will need to get these replaced too as they will just shag a new bearing in hours. They should have a mirror surface on them.

I would also check the diff oil.

Oh and well done for cleaning up before you started stripping

 

[fishsponge]

Have you checked the diff oil? This can reach the swivels sometimes and if that's all gone you will be in trouble.

Nope... not checked that yet... probably ought to do that as well then! Will the list ever end!

Why should weather stop play, if it's important, just get an old plastic sheet, shut it in the bonnet or stuff a couple of bricks on the wing to hold t, then pull the other end out into a mini tent, two more bricks to hold and you're away. Not saying it will be luxury but needs must. If it meant missing work, I would try and find a way to get it fixed.

you assume i have such a thing as an "old plastic sheet" or some equivalent! lol, I'd go and buy a gazebo, but i'd rather not drive the thing any more until it's fixed! I agree, that I need to find a way to get it fixed so I can get to work, but it's not looking *too* likely at the moment! That's not to say I won't give it a damn good go though...

 

[The Mad Hat Man]

No you won't need new seals, even if they are shot, now you know what to do, fitting new ones is a doddle.

No the grease can't reach the swivels, it's self contained.

Yes clean them with clean rag, an old t shirt is good.

Have you checked the diff oil? This can reach the swivels sometimes and if that's all gone you will be in trouble.

Why should weather stop play, if it's important, just get an old plastic sheet, shut it in the bonnet or stuff a couple of bricks on the wing to hold t, then pull the other end out into a mini tent, two more bricks to hold and you're away. Not saying it will be luxury but needs must. If it meant missing work, I would try and find a way to get it fixed.

That depends on your attitude to work.
personally, if i found I had to replace the bearings, for the extra cost incolved, i would replace the seals as well. It is possible that they are shagged anyway. I wouldnt want to do the job several times - best once and have done with it.

Clean the bearings with rag and or petrol to wash contaminants out, but be aware, it will rust quickly after, so oil or grease as soon as it is clean.

checking the diff oil is always a good idea and for the price of one-shot, i would do the swivels, even if you intend to replace them soon.