Diesel Hot Starting Fault P38

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Had,
looks like your battery.
The voltmeter reading i assume was when the engine is running.
The best test i have ever know is to charge the battery to full then put a discharge tester on it .This simulates the big load of cranking. See then what the battery does. It should hold around 9 volts.
If your testing the battery with the engine running or stood still it means nothing.
Hope you get my drift
 
Stood still with no load on, 12.8 volts at the battery on a voltmeter doesnt prove the battery is ok.
Turn everything on , lights etc and measure then(not with engine running).
If the voltage drops significatly>3-4v could be the battery.This is only a guide.
Good luk mate
Chris
 
tigapiglet said:
Hi everyone sorry not been on lately here is the post especially for tiff,this only takes about 30 mins to do,the parts you will need is a 5 pin relay,locally sourced or landrover sell them part no is YWB10032L cost of £6.07 +vat you will need a resistor 2k ohm value locally sourced.
tools you will need spanner to take off battery terminal,philips screwdriver soldering iron an solder some insulating tape.
first of all disconect battery -ve terminal,unsrcew top of ecm cover,remove ecm and sit on top battery area on a cover obviously no sparks here.look into the loom of the ecm you are looking for a grey/blue trace wire this is the temp sender wire,cut this wire 3 inches back from ecm connector so you have enough room to join to the relay to terminal 30,before you join this wire the resistor needs to be bent in a horse shoe shape as the resistor goes between terminal 30 and terminal 87a,so to recap cut blue/grey wire and 1 end of resistor into crimping terminal and crimp, the other end of the resistor goes into the other cut side of the blue /grey wire and crimp with resistor connect to terminal 87a,terminal 85 goes to earth i normally cut into the collecting of black wires in the ecm box with plastic covered ends solder it to 1 of these here.the last connection is from the glow plug relay which is situated next to the ecm in the box,you need to join a wire to the red/white wire at the the glow plug relay this then joins onto terminal 86 of the relay,this is now all done wrap tape all round the relay and just place inside with the ecm and glow plug relay,hope my instructions are clear if not please email or post a message im going to look in my shed tomorow to see if i can find some resistors will let you know if i find any.
Click to expand...
what does it actually do ?
 
There are loads of range rovers all over the world mine included , that now start when warm , thanks to this mod that tiga has has honourably shared with us.
I basically kids the ECU that the engine is cold when its warm . This prevents the engine being starved of fuel during warm start. i read something about EU directives and emissions .Cutting the fuel back reduces smoke on starting but the down side is that in my opinion as the engine wears and the compression isnt as good it wont start.

i dont think the mod is perfect , unless a few others and me are wrong it appears that the relay that puts the 2k resistor is permanently energised.
My car now idles at a lot higher revs , however fuel consumption only seems to me to be reduced by about 5% tops.
There is a mod to this that i have the parts to but not yet made , that someone posted , using a 555 timmer. This only energises the relay for aprox 30 secs on start to put the 2k incirciut , after 30 secs it flips back to normal running.

Ps i have bought a set of pirrelli scorpions AT that are 18"" i think . Bought them and fitted them to some old alloy rims to go off roading. But they have not been on the car yet. If anyone is interested and lives near Manchester drop me a line.
 
Hello,
my problem is that when the engine is hot it does not start, you can try with jump starters for half an hour but no way. You have to wait until the engine is cold, from 4 hours to 1 night, and then it starts perfectly. Does the modification fix this issue? Parts changed by land rover: Battery, tank fuel pump, engine rotation sensor, connectors to the electronic ignition, electronic ignition, improved voltage to glow plugs...but no way 85 days of mechanic in one year, so go by layer, win the cause...I should have a brand new range, but the dealer bakrupted... so my range is sitting since wo years in a garage and no my money back. Now I have to fix the issue by my self....
 
I've just joined your site having searched the internet to find a solution to this problem. Tried Tiapiglets mod and as other mentioned, the red/white wire on the glowplug relay is an ignition-on feed, so there obviously an error here. A man at Bosch told me a similar mod., but taking the relay feed from the starter solenoid feed - the thicker black wire from the ecu. This makes more sense, but the glow plugs and cold start strategy only begin AFTER cranking has begun !
But what is the ROOT CAUSE of this problem ?
One independant has told me its worn injection pump - the leakage past the pump pistons (?) when the fuel is hot is so great that too little fuel is displaced down the lines. Diesel specialist quoted £160 to rig test pump and and a further £840 to refurbish !
Anyone know what all the signal wires are, going into the glow plug relay, and what they do ?
Do later ecu's have a built-in deterioration correction, for example ?
 
Ive just joined because I've found this thread. Same prob. with mine. Tigapigs mod puts the relay permanently live, so the engine is permanantly running on cold map - somthing wrong, surely ?
Taking the relay feed from the starter relay feed was recommended by a man at Bosch so they know of the problem.
An independant told me its worn pump elements. There is so much leakage with thin hot fuel, that not enough fuel goes through the injectors. Implementing the cold start strategy puts more fuel downn and the glow plugs working are an incidental - as long as the engine is not worn as well!
Can anyone reprog. the ecu's to do the job properly ?
Has anyone changed a pump and solved the problem ?
I've been quoted £160 to check the pump and a further £840 to refurbish. But will it solve the problem !!!!!!! ????
 
Apologies to Tigapiglet for getting your name wrong - my brain crashed.
My computer also crashed while doing the first reply, so I did another, only to find the first one HAD got through after all !
 
hi boys not on much latley i will have a look into diagram as i hear a few people say i have cocked up oops! and see if there is a better way of wiring up hope your all well tiga
 
To every one that has posted recently on this Mod.

Tigapiglets mod works fine if you use a timer relay- this energises the cold start process before cranking and ensures for quicker starting and a perfect tickover speed.

This problem is not a range rover specific problem, 325TD BMW's, Vauxhall Omega 2.5D's and anything fitted with this engine management system also suffers the same problem - save your money gents don't spend out on expensive pump repairs that will not cure the problem - follow Tigapiglets brilliant Mod use a timed relay and you will be smiling as I am
:D
 
Hello to all you hot start problem people out there.


This mod sounds great and it looks like it works fine.
However are we not just adding a mod to buy pass what is wrong.
I believe that 50 percent of the hot start faults are down to the engine coolant temp sensor being u/s.
the sensor is mounted below no 4 injector (not on the injector, but just below it).
you do not even have to replace the sensor, all you have to do is unplug it to see if the fault goes away.
if it does then a new sensor is about 12 quid and easy enough to fit with a long socket and bar.

good look to all you out there that have this problem.:)
 
wantaquad said:
To every one that has posted recently on this Mod.

Tigapiglets mod works fine if you use a timer relay- this energises the cold start process before cranking and ensures for quicker starting and a perfect tickover speed.

This problem is not a range rover specific problem, 325TD BMW's, Vauxhall Omega 2.5D's and anything fitted with this engine management system also suffers the same problem - save your money gents don't spend out on expensive pump repairs that will not cure the problem - follow Tigapiglets brilliant Mod use a timed relay and you will be smiling as I am
:D
Click to expand...

Hi everyone - first post on here! I can confirm I have a Vauxhall Omega 2.5TD fitted with the same BMW engine. This has done 124K miles and has just started doing this out of the blue. It does always fire ('touch-wood') but can take 30sec - 1min after being stood for 10 - 15mins when fully warm. Fires first time from cold.

Question is, is the fix procedure the same on the Omega i.e. is the wiring going to be the same?? Would really appreciate advice on this.

brookediamond said:
Hello to all you hot start problem people out there.


This mod sounds great and it looks like it works fine.
However are we not just adding a mod to buy pass what is wrong.
I believe that 50 percent of the hot start faults are down to the engine coolant temp sensor being u/s.
the sensor is mounted below no 4 injector (not on the injector, but just below it).
you do not even have to replace the sensor, all you have to do is unplug it to see if the fault goes away.
if it does then a new sensor is about 12 quid and easy enough to fit with a long socket and bar.

good look to all you out there that have this problem.:)
Click to expand...

This is also interesting - are you saying to disconnect the Temp Sender and see how it runs. If it starts fine when hot this is proving a replacement sensor would cure the problem?

Slightly off topic - do your BMW 2.5TD's make a ticking noise at idle - I have had this since I got the car approx. 7k miles ago. The noise disappears when revs are raised to approx. 1500 - 2000rpm. See attached link where I have tried to capture the noise by using the movie function on my digital camera. Ignore the footage itself as I needed to be in the drivers seat to rev the engine (no one to assist I'm afraid) and so ended up pointing the camera down towards the ground to get the best sound. You may need to turn up your volume to get the best sound effect from this clip, but the noise captured is a fairly good representation - maybe listen to it a few times to get best feel for the noise.

Only lasts 20 odd seconds - hope this works!

http://s73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...t=MOV01256.flv

I have recently been told it could be the injectors? Advice gladly received!
 
I THINK THE BASICS ARE THE SAME FOR ALL THE CARS THAT HAVE THIS ENGINE.
UNPLUG SENSOR AND SEE IF FAULT GOES AWAY
iT IS A BIT FIDDLY TO GET AT BECAUSE IT HAS A RETAYNING CLIP ON SENSOR PLUG BUT IF YOU USE A LONG ENOUGH SCREW DRIVER YOU CAN GET AT IT FROM TOP OF ENGINE AFTER YOU HAVE REMOVED BLACK PLASTIC COVERS.

I WILL BUY YOU A PINT IF THIS DOES NOT CURE YOUR FAULT( IM THAT CONFIDENT).:D
GOOD LUCK AND LET ME KNOW WHAT HAPPENS.
 
brookediamond said:
I THINK THE BASICS ARE THE SAME FOR ALL THE CARS THAT HAVE THIS ENGINE.
UNPLUG SENSOR AND SEE IF FAULT GOES AWAY
iT IS A BIT FIDDLY TO GET AT BECAUSE IT HAS A RETAYNING CLIP ON SENSOR PLUG BUT IF YOU USE A LONG ENOUGH SCREW DRIVER YOU CAN GET AT IT FROM TOP OF ENGINE AFTER YOU HAVE REMOVED BLACK PLASTIC COVERS.

I WILL BUY YOU A PINT IF THIS DOES NOT CURE YOUR FAULT( IM THAT CONFIDENT).:D
GOOD LUCK AND LET ME KNOW WHAT HAPPENS.
Click to expand...

OK - will try this! I'll hold you to that drink if it doesn't work:) ! What I don't understand is how can this switch be faulty when the temp gauge still reads fine? (presumably this sensor provides info to the gauge on water temp?). Can you explain further..... Vauxhall TIS manual on this engine reckons that the inlet manifold needs to be removed to replace the coolant temp sensor - I'm sure it can be done without (albeit fiddly).

One final question (sorry for there being so many). On your previous post you quote:

"I believe that 50 percent of the hot start faults are down to the engine coolant temp sensor being u/s."

Sorry for being thick but what do you mean by the 'coolant temp sensor being u/s'? In other words what does u/s stand for?
 
Hello no your not thick.

U/S is a term engineers use for unsafe.( ie knackered).
I managed to remove the sensor by using a long scket ( not sure of size, pos 21mm, but do check). I attached a long socket bar and removed by sliding it in under the manifold from the side.
It is fidly but i did not remove anything other than the plastic manifold covers.
The temp sensor in my car was also giving a reading but if that reading is incorrect or sliightly out then the car will mix different quantities of air and diesel thus causing the problem.

good luck.
 
sorry for not replying sooner - particularly to wood pecker -

The relay I used is ; Brodersen Unic XM Control relay - I believe it to be available on line from RS components.

Also with reference to an earlier post - disconecting the temperature sensor results in the ECU using a default temperature value, Basically it states that the engine is cold (same as the relay mod) but will stay at a cold setting regardless of engine temp.

I am led to believe that the same sensor is used to control the Temp Gauge so if your gauge shows normal when the engine is warm it probably won't be U/S.
If any of you have changed the sensor and cured the fault please post so that we can all follow.
 
brookediamond said:
Hello no your not thick.

U/S is a term engineers use for unsafe.( ie knackered).
I managed to remove the sensor by using a long scket ( not sure of size, pos 21mm, but do check). I attached a long socket bar and removed by sliding it in under the manifold from the side.
It is fidly but i did not remove anything other than the plastic manifold covers.
The temp sensor in my car was also giving a reading but if that reading is incorrect or sliightly out then the car will mix different quantities of air and diesel thus causing the problem.

good luck.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the clarification. I have ordered one and will try this - seems worth a go - I'll let you know how I go. I think I am going to be having my injectors overhauled in a few weeks so that is probably an ideal time to have this installed as the inlet manifold has to be removed anyway - making it less fiddly.

Is your engine quiet at idle - I have started another thread entittled "BWM Diesel 2.5 TD: Ticking Noise (inc. Footage of actual Noise)" about this. I have an annoying ticking / tapping noise at idle on mine.
 
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