definition of a proper off road vehicle ?

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"Charles Holder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Exit" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Charles Holder wrote:
> > > "Exit" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > >> Geoff wrote:
> > >>> On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 16:12:19 GMT, "Exit" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> ->Strong ladder chassis, solid axles both ends on coil springs with
> > >>> lots of
> > >>> ->travel, permanent 4WD, low box with deep low gearing, engine with
> > >>> lots of
> > >>> ->torque below 2000rpm and decent set of tyres.
> > >>>
> > >>> How is permanent 4WD going to make any odds on a proper offroad
> > >>> vehicle ? What's wrong with leaf springs ? Get more articulation for
> > >>> less money. You don't mention approach, departure or ramp over
> > >>> angles. Diff clearance.
> > >>> C.O.G
> > >>>
> > >>> The most important thing a proper off road vehicle needs is the
> > >>> correct nut behind the wheel ;-)
> > >>
> > >> This was the important bit of my post you snipped: ;-)
> > >>
> > >> 'It's whatever you want it to be, my personal definition is:'
> > >>
> > >> To me permanent 4WD is important because I want 4WD all the time and
> > >> sometimes I want lowbox on a road that is grippy. I like to drive
> > >> many miles to off-road in interesting places so leaf springs are out
> > >> coz they are uncomfirtable on the way to the mud.
> > >>
> > >> Like I said, everyone to their own idea about what a proper
> > >> off-roader is. I mean some people think underpowered cart sprung jap
> > >> hairdresser motors are cool . . . . . . . . .
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Julian
> > >> ---------
> > >> = Pretentious Sig required =
> > >
> > > OK
> > > What is "Underpowered"
> >
> > Depends on the gearing.
> >
> > --
> > Julian
> > ---------
> > = Pretentious Sig required =
> >
> >
> Many postings have possibly already answered my next question but.
>
> We are not talking the North Face of the Eiger.
>
> I use my 4X4 on muddy dirt tracks, in forested areas , ploughed fields. Of
> road .
>
> So lets take it one step at a time
>
> Power to weight, Ground clearance, gear ratio / dif. Ratio, Tyre pattern .
> Coil or leaf springs. Weather I am a prat. Is not the question.
>
> Is a 2.0 V6 Under powered ?
>
>
PS

With or without a hairdryer on the back seat ))







































































 
rnf wrote:

Love the Bighorn :)

Tee hee!

--
Julian
---------
= Pretentious Sig required =


 
On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 16:31:16 GMT, "Exit" <[email protected]> wrote:

->Exactly my point - horses for courses. You can't define a proper off-roader
->unless you define the terrain.

Proper off roader to me is a vehicle that can overcome serious obstacles without
compromise, this is not to be confused with a proper expedition vehicle or say a
proper shopping trolly or proper school run vehicle.

->> Leafs are cheap and leafs can be made to out articulate coils for a
->> fraction of the cost, leafs are not as nice to the user as coils, but
->> then we are not talking about comfort.
->>
->What has cost got to do with it? Coils springs usually cost less than decent
->leaf springs. You may not talk about comfort, but I do - once again it
->depends on your definition.

Not the cost of the springs but the cost of modifications (and the work required
to make them) I can get as much articulation out of some leafs then you could
with the full Scorpion Extreme setup, the Scorpion kit costs a fortune the leaf
kit you could make without that much difficulty.

->> ->Everything - getting stuck is uncool dude. . . . .
->>
->> I don't get stuck often enough to worry about it :))
->>
->You're not trying hard enough then. . . . . . . ;-)

IMBO if you don't roll it you're not trying !

->That's OK if you off-road locally, I like to travel abroad to play in the
->mud.

That's why I have what you call a proper offroader to tow what I call a proper
offroader to events :))

--
Geoff
www.anoraks.uk.net
 
On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 17:49:03 GMT, [email protected] (QrizB) wrote:

->>->140lb-ft per tonne at 2500 rpm = 67 hp per tonne at 2500 rpm.
->>->
->>Chris you have far too much time on your hands ;-)
->
->I'm meant to be decorating ...

I must resist obvious joke, I must resist obvious joke, I must resist obvious
joke, I must resist obvious joke, I must resist obvious joke, I must resist
obvious joke, I must resist obvious joke, I must resist obvious joke, I must
resist obvious joke, I must resist obvious joke, I must resist obvious joke, I
must resist obvious joke, I must resist obvious joke, I must resist obvious
joke, I must resist obvious joke,


--
Geoff
www.anoraks.uk.net
 
On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 22:58:00 -0000, "Charles Holder"
<[email protected]> wrote:

->Many postings have possibly already answered my next question but.

->We are not talking the North Face of the Eiger.

You will not get a Suzuki up that !

->I use my 4X4 on muddy dirt tracks, in forested areas , ploughed fields. Of
->road .

So you don't need to worry about diff clearance and approach, departure and ramp
over angles (tho side steps would not last long)

->So lets take it one step at a time
->
->Power to weight, Ground clearance, gear ratio / dif. Ratio, Tyre pattern .
->Coil or leaf springs. Weather I am a prat. Is not the question.
->
->Is a 2.0 V6 Under powered ?

What for ?

With 5 people, all their camping and fishing kit and some steep hills then yes
it is, however offroad you can use low range and you'll be fine.



--
Geoff
www.anoraks.uk.net
 
On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 16:32:49 GMT, "Exit" <[email protected]> wrote:

->>>> How about power to weight ?
->>>>
->>> Irrelevant. If you knew anything about off-roading you'd know it's
->>> torque to weight ratio that matters. All my off-roaders have more
->>> than 140lb-ft per tonne below 2500rpm. Who cares what the power
->>> output is?
->>
->> Adding another bit here:
->>
->> 140lb-ft per tonne at 2500 rpm = 67 hp per tonne at 2500 rpm.
->>
->> http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question622.htm
->
->Well if it's power that matters, not torque, may I respectfully suggest you
->fit a 67hp 600cc motorbike engine to a 110 and see how far off-road you get.
->. . . . . . . . . ;-)

Only if you made the 110 lighter, back to power to weight ;-)


--
Geoff
www.anoraks.uk.net
 

"Adrian" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Now imagine the laughter our 4x4 2cv gets...

Is that a real 4x4 2cv, Safari ? Weren't there only about half a dozen of
them made ?
It sounds fun anyway.
Oh, and Haflingers are 650cc not 600, but I've put an 850 in mine. :)

John


 
oilier than thou ([email protected]) gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying :

>> Now imagine the laughter our 4x4 2cv gets...

> Is that a real 4x4 2cv, Safari ?

It's a "real" 4x4 2cv, but not a twin-engined Sahara - it's one of these -
www.2cv4x4.co.uk (Hmm - site seems to be down at the moment...) - a british
conversion.

> Weren't there only about half a dozen of them made ?

Nearly 700 Saharas built, plus a few replicas.

> It sounds fun anyway.

Hell, yes!

> Oh, and Haflingers are 650cc not 600, but I've put an 850 in mine. :)

Near enough... <grin> - What's the 850 from?
 

"Charles Holder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> take quite a lot of stick because I drive a Vitara.
>
> It's a 20. V6 5 Dr. I also have a 1600 3Dr.
>
> I drive across fields and down slops, carry equipment and people. But
> because it is a Vitara it is not seen as a proper OFF ROADER !
>
> I certainly could not go where I do go in a conventional car.
>
> So what is the definition of a proper off road vehicle ?
>
'Proper off roading' will mean different things to different people, so it's
impossible to define a 'proper off road vehicle'

I spent 20 years in the Army driving various things from Quad bikes to
Challenger tanks on test courses down at Bovington - IMO that was 'proper'
off roading.

A lady with her new Toyota RAV4 might go down a gravel/muddy track and she
may consider THAT to be 'proper' off roading. Then you have the guys who do
trialling, off road competitions........

Clive


 

"Adrian" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > Is that a real 4x4 2cv, Safari ?
>
> It's a "real" 4x4 2cv, but not a twin-engined Sahara - it's one of these -
> www.2cv4x4.co.uk (Hmm - site seems to be down at the moment...) - a
british conversion.

Sahara! I new it had a name something like that :)
So how does the conversion work if you've only got one engine ?
Your site's not working from here either.

>Nearly 700 Saharas built, plus a few replicas.
>
> > It sounds fun anyway.
>
> Hell, yes!
The most capable vehicles aren't always the most fun, despite what others in
this thread have said. You should see some peoples faces when I've taken my
2 wheel drive, 1936 Austin Seven special, off roading. It's got 400x19
trials tyres on the back, and puts up quite a respectable performance. It
won't go where my Landrover or my Haflinger will go, but it's just as much
fun.

> > Oh, and Haflingers are 650cc not 600, but I've put an 850 in mine. :)
>
> Near enough... <grin> - What's the 850 from?

Reliant Robin / Kitten. compact, very light weight, 40bhp.
See http://www.tanygraig.force9.co.uk/John/offroad.htm

John



 
oilier than thou ([email protected]) gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying :

>> > Is that a real 4x4 2cv, Safari ?

>> It's a "real" 4x4 2cv, but not a twin-engined Sahara - it's one of
>> these - www.2cv4x4.co.uk (Hmm - site seems to be down at the
>> moment...) - a british conversion.

> Sahara! I new it had a name something like that :)
> So how does the conversion work if you've only got one engine ?

The engine/box is north-south anyway, so the back plate comes off the
gearbox, specially built transfer box, propshaft, rear box (which is a front
one with most the internals out). Rear suspension is front suspension turned
round. Specially built chassis.

> Your site's not working from here either.

Not my site, and the guy responsible's in the Arctic at the moment!

> The most capable vehicles aren't always the most fun, despite what
> others in this thread have said. You should see some peoples faces when
> I've taken my 2 wheel drive, 1936 Austin Seven special, off roading.
> It's got 400x19 trials tyres on the back, and puts up quite a
> respectable performance. It won't go where my Landrover or my Haflinger
> will go, but it's just as much fun.

And treads an awful lot more lightly than 2 ton of electronic traction
control diesel barge, too.

>> > Oh, and Haflingers are 650cc not 600, but I've put an 850 in mine.

>> Near enough... <grin> - What's the 850 from?

> Reliant Robin / Kitten. compact, very light weight, 40bhp.
> See http://www.tanygraig.force9.co.uk/John/offroad.htm

40bhp with you, 35bhp here. More than enough.

200lb/ft of torque is for wusses!
 
On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 15:20:56 -0000, "oilier than thou"
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Reliant Robin / Kitten. compact, very light weight, 40bhp.
>See http://www.tanygraig.force9.co.uk/John/offroad.htm

I was tootling along at 70 on the M5 yesterday, minding my own
business, when a bright blue Reliant Rialto SE passed me.

I'm impressed it could go that fast, TBH.

--
QrizB

"On second thought, let's not go to Z'Ha'Dum. It is a silly place."
 
In message <[email protected]>, QrizB <[email protected]>
writes
>On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 15:20:56 -0000, "oilier than thou"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Reliant Robin / Kitten. compact, very light weight, 40bhp.
>>See http://www.tanygraig.force9.co.uk/John/offroad.htm
>
>I was tootling along at 70 on the M5 yesterday, minding my own
>business, when a bright blue Reliant Rialto SE passed me.
>
>I'm impressed it could go that fast, TBH.
>

There's a Kitten in this months 'Retro Cars' being fitted with an 1100cc
Kawasaki engine and box!
--
Chris Morriss
 

"Chris Morriss" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In message <[email protected]>, QrizB <[email protected]>
> writes
> >On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 15:20:56 -0000, "oilier than thou"
> ><[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> Reliant Robin / Kitten. compact, very light weight, 40bhp.
> >>See http://www.tanygraig.force9.co.uk/John/offroad.htm
> >
> >I was tootling along at 70 on the M5 yesterday, minding my own
> >business, when a bright blue Reliant Rialto SE passed me.
> >
> >I'm impressed it could go that fast, TBH.
> >
>
> There's a Kitten in this months 'Retro Cars' being fitted with an 1100cc
> Kawasaki engine and box!
> --
> Chris Morriss

I'll bet it's Bl**y useless off road though :)
John


 
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 22:46:03 -0000, "oilier than thou"
<[email protected]> wrote:

->>
->> There's a Kitten in this months 'Retro Cars' being fitted with an 1100cc
->> Kawasaki engine and box!

-> I'll bet it's Bl**y useless off road though :)

Not to mention stopping or going round corners !

--
Geoff
www.anoraks.uk.net
 
In article <[email protected]>, Jukka wrote:
> Mon, 09 Feb 2004 21:30:20 GMT "Clive" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Unimog
>
> Another vote here ;)
>
>> Clive
>

A couple of years ago I saw a program on cable with that old bloke who
used to do rallying who was also on top gear for a bit. Can't remember
his name. Tony something?

Anyway the program was about off roaders of various sorts and they featured
some huge trucks that were I think used for tank recovery. They showed
them driving around and old quarry and they looked unstoppable, as I
imagine they were if they were used for tank recovery.

I'd say they are a proper off road vehicle, they looked great fun. Anyone
see the same program who knows what they were?


--
simon at sbarr dot demon dot co dot uk
Simon Barr.
'97 110 300Tdi.
 
On 24 Feb 2004 08:31:47 GMT, Simon Barr <[email protected]> wrote:

>Anyway the program was about off roaders of various sorts and they featured
>some huge trucks that were I think used for tank recovery. They showed
>them driving around and old quarry and they looked unstoppable, as I
>imagine they were if they were used for tank recovery.
>
>I'd say they are a proper off road vehicle, they looked great fun. Anyone
>see the same program who knows what they were?

It's not the program you're referring to, but mihgt I recommend trying
to catch the Europa Truck Trial on Eurosport. It's almost as
compelling as that mad Icelandic racing thing.

--
QrizB

"On second thought, let's not go to Z'Ha'Dum. It is a silly place."
 
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