Defender ride quality v early Range Rover

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lightning

lightning

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Today l drove an old Range Rover and the ride was like a magic carpet (compared to my Defender TD5 110)

Looking underneath the suspension setup looked to be the same.
So why is the ride so much better? It has to be mainly springs/shocks?

If l fit Range Rover springs/shocks to my TD5 will it ride like a Range Rover then?
 
This was discussed just the other day.

May be worth finding that thread. As Flatlander fitted different springs and it was better for him.

Cheers
 
I think it must partly be the extra weight of the RR body, there is quite a bit of steel in them, makes the suspension work better?
Certainly my 110 or 90 ride much better with a 1/4 ton of sand bags in the back. Don't exactly enhance performance though.
 
Try a search for range rover police spec springs, well i think thats what they are called, meant to be super soft, obviously no good for a loaded motor as I think the police r/r had the boge strutt?
 
If you go to your local builder's merchant and buy 25 bags of cement the ride is much softer on the way home. If you shop around you might be able to do the whole job for just over £100.
 
lightning said:
Today l drove an old Range Rover and the ride was like a magic carpet (compared to my Defender TD5 110)

Looking underneath the suspension setup looked to be the same.
So why is the ride so much better? It has to be mainly springs/shocks?

If l fit Range Rover springs/shocks to my TD5 will it ride like a Range Rover then?
Click to expand...

Probably will, my 90 rides lovely on Disco springs and the rears are progressive so firm when towing.
 
lightning said:
Today l drove an old Range Rover and the ride was like a magic carpet (compared to my Defender TD5 110)

Looking underneath the suspension setup looked to be the same.
So why is the ride so much better? It has to be mainly springs/shocks?

If l fit Range Rover springs/shocks to my TD5 will it ride like a Range Rover then?
Click to expand...

Spring rate and softer, and the added weight. It's the same as the Discovery's - same chassis as the RR Classic.

I currently have 10 concrete blocks in the back of my 90 and before I got them out I needed to nip to the shops and some other places, as I went over the first speed-bump I remembered how I love when it is loaded up as the ride just becomes brilliant. 10 concrete blocks weigh about just shy of 1/4 of a ton. It's also less crashy, with the only noise I hear being a shock top mount clicking as it's worn and some bolts that are loose on the hard top sides to tub mounting rattling a bit.

A friend suggested maybe I look into a piece of steel plate exactly the size of the boot floor, I reckon if I added a permanent 150Kg or so it would make no difference to performance/MPG etc and improve the ride. Going one further if I then fitted Disco 200/300tdi springs it would be even better.

I will investigate with some 25litre containers filled with water and see what the minimum weight would be - maybe the clever thing would be to add a rear fuel tank and tend to keep it topped up but even a full 100 litre tank of diesel is only going to weight 83.2Kg in fuel plus 8-10Kg in the tank itself.

It springs to mind that maybe if we armoured our land rovers that would add the weight to increase the ride quality and offer us better protection with the current threat of jihadi barstewards.
 
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lightning said:
Are they the same ride height?
And what shocks do you have fitted?
Click to expand...

This will help you a whole lot:
http://rovers.red90.ca/springinfo.html - just watch out for the "sides" on this chart as it looks like it may be LHD spec - which means the front springs may be listed the wrong way round.

You will note, that NTC9446/9447 are listed as Def 90 - but Disco HD springs. Which is the standard spring for a Defender, but the Disco HD spring is about an inch shorter but the spring rate requires more weight to move it an inch 170lbs as apposed to 150lbs so the Disco springs needs to be longer to end up at the same sort of height with the added weight of a Disco sitting on it.

From this chart I am sure you will work it all out or at least it will help you to understand what spring rates you may want to aim for - remember that although
 
Well, the Terrafirma 4 way adjustable shocks arrived today.
I'll fit these and report back. If it's no better l'll look at changing the springs as suggested above.
(Thanks for the spring info discomania)

A quick test of these shocks reveals a big difference between the hardest and softest settings (time taken to compress the shock with body weight)

The Defender self levelling unit was discontinued by the time TD5 arrived. So that may contribute to the harder ride.
 
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The 110 uses wider springs at the rear than 90's and Discovery's so it may not be a simple swap between models.
Out of interest the 110 fronts are the same as Discovery rears, and similar to 90 fronts, but 90 fronts are not progressive. I mention this as fitting 90 fronts is unlikely to make much difference at the front.
The rear on mine is also too hard as It runs empty most of the time, god only knows what is on the rear, as it is ex-army, but it sits high at the rear.
I looked at all the available standard spring rates and couldn't see anything that looked like it would do the job.

The above posted chart is good http://www.red90.ca/rovers/springinfo.html don't bother with left and right sides, get matching pairs, Land Rover don't use handed springs anymore.
 
From that chart it seems like the only option for TD5 110 rear is the "heavy duty" 330lbs.
My 110 sits fairly high at the rear, l wonder if a previous owner fitted "uprated" springs.
Terrafirma do some "light load" 110 rear springs which are rated 210lbs (light) and 270lbs (medium)
But all their springs are flippin' 2" lift which is not what l want, if anything the rear could be an inch or two lower for me.

The rear roof on mine is 80" (6 foot 8 inches, 203cm) high.
This is slightly taller l think than most, as it won't fit under the barrier at my local tip and l've seen other similar 110's just fit under.

I may try some standard springs maybe tdci ones to see if they are any better as it's not possible to identify what's on it at the moment.
Unless somebody knows of anybody doing a standard height or slightly lower 110 TD5 rear spring that has a rating of less than 330lbs that l can buy, to try on it.
 
lightning said:
Today l drove an old Range Rover and the ride was like a magic carpet (compared to my Defender TD5 110)

Looking underneath the suspension setup looked to be the same.
So why is the ride so much better? It has to be mainly springs/shocks?

If l fit Range Rover springs/shocks to my TD5 will it ride like a Range Rover then?
Click to expand...
I would be a bit worried if my Defender rolled around like an old RR
 
I own a 1984 110 with self levelling suspension and a 1984 Range Rover classic with the same self levelling suspension. The ride feels identical on both, due to the self levelling suspension lighter duty springs could be fitted. Both are a lovely ride compared with my defender 90. However the Range Rover and 110 roll a fair bit especially compared to my 90. Without having a complex suspension set up a 4x4 will always be a compromise.
 
lightning said:
Today l drove an old Range Rover and the ride was like a magic carpet (compared to my Defender TD5 110)

Looking underneath the suspension setup looked to be the same.
So why is the ride so much better? It has to be mainly springs/shocks?

If l fit Range Rover springs/shocks to my TD5 will it ride like a Range Rover then?
Click to expand...
I posted this last week, and probably the week before that too :D

The big difference is the actual construction. A Defender uses a multi section body, all of it bolts metal on metal to the chassis. No isolation at all and very little in the way of NVH reduction.

A Range Rover Classic, or indeed a Disco 1 are completely different. The chassis, suspension, axles and even engines & gearboxes are all very similar. But the body for these is mostly a 1 piece single tub. Which is then located on the chassis via rubber donut mounts. It is completely isolated from the chassis.

There is then a ton a other NVH reduction measures, starting with the engine bay and firewall, to the harmonic balances on the axles to the rest of the interior design and sound proofing measures. All of this will add up and make a substantially different riding vehicle to a Defender.

As for a 110. They will generally have heavier duty springs, especially on the rear, as it can have much higher load carrying weight than a Range Rover. Changing shocks and springs may well improve some areas, but likely will perform worse in other areas. And it won't suddenly make it ride like a Range Rover.

IMG_2261.JPG
 
Earlier (pre-Td5) 110 station wagons had the self-levelled suspension setup, with soft springs and the Boge hydraulic damper unit which would pump up the rear when loaded up. This gave a nice ride even when empty, and the vehicle sat level. The only problem was the Boge units were pretty crap and generally failed after a while, meaning the suspension would sag under load. The early Range Rovers had the same setup, hence the comparison in ride quality.

On later station wagon vehicles Land Rover did away with the leveller unit and just fitted progressive springs, these are by necessity a compromise so the ride isn't quite as soft, however they can carry a load without sinking unduly. However it does result in the slight nose-down attitude one sees in later vehicles.

I'm not sure if you can still buy new Boge units, I doubt it given the age. However you can replace its function with airbag helper springs, this way you can still run the softer coil springs but retain a load carrying ability. The wallowyness that comes with softer suspension can be alleviated to some extent by anti-roll bars (to the detriment of some articulation) however it will never corner like a stiffer-sprung vehicle.

All compounded of course by the other NVH measures outlined by 300bhp/ton which go to make the Range Rover more pleasant to be in generally. However if we are just talking about the suspension then I believe the above is valid.
 
i had the heavy duty springs on my 90 and it was a nightmare when empty, proper skittish.

I changed the fronts for standard ones but didnt notice a difference.

tyre pressure makes a difference aswell, tyres a bit soft seem to affect the suspension in a negative way (feels like it to me anyway)
 
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