Cheesed off :( in need of help please guys sorry....

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neo2 said:
Datatek...would a sync problem still allow the engine to turn over and not fire or would the sync problem basically kill the engine cranking too... Rob
Click to expand...
Depending on model year - it will either not turn over or it will just turn over and over and not fire....

Not sure which way round it is but upto '99 one does on thing then post '99 it does the other....

Try doing a search to find out which way round it is....
 
Hi Rob,

Been following the post with interest, definitely worth hanging in there, they are so much fun to drive. Yours looks exactly like mine :).

Have you checked the maxi fuse for power? that would at least show if the fuse board is shot. I've just checked mine, with the fuse out, the terminal on the wing side of the fuse board should be live.

If it's not, it might be worth trying to put a cable (make sure its the same size cable) in to jumper the board. i.e put it in from the terminal to the same side of the maxifuse (you want to make sure its still going through the fuse!!). If you can't manage to squeeze a cable in with the fuse at the same terminal, try a jumper cable to the engine side of the fuse holder, but make sure you put a inline fuse on the jumper cable (I'm sure halfrauds will have something). Just make sure its fused - not sure doug would be too happy with another fry up!!

At least that would show you if it is the board that's shot. Not sure how easy it would be to do in practice tho, but saves buying a new board if its not the board that's the problem.

Oh yeah, sucking eggs maybe, but make sure you disconnect the battery before connecting new cables!!! ;)

Cheers

Marc
 
The sync between the ems and the becm are fine, both showing the same ems code, as its a motoronics system it has to have the same code in both ems and becm unlike the gems, i was able to access the ems and checked for the correct code and went a little deeper and the system was showing it had received the correct code from the Becm so the ecu was receiving power and talking to the Becm, i checked the three power feeds to the becm and were all just short of 13 volts and around 12.6 when engine was cranking, the earth to the Becm was good, the engine cranks but dose not fire, we checked for a spark at the plugs... there is none. I checked the fuel pump relay and this comes on and operates the pump motor via the laptop through the Becm, i read the Becm code a few times to be sure it had not jumped back to the wrong code but it was still ok, all the correct dash lights came on as they should and the normal faults i.e... windows not set etc., but two items were showing all the time, one was the sun roof open but was closed and the other was a gearbox fault, at the moment i don't have the software for the gearbox as its not a common problem so could no go any further with that one, the battery is good holding a voltage even when cranking above 12 volts.

So in a nut shell the system is ok but wont deliver a spark to the plugs, the pump is running feeding fuel when needed. i have tried fitting known good relays in the places that run the engine management system but still no spark, the fuse box circuit board is not easy to access as it has many soldered pins on both sides top and bottom, so the easy way would be to borrow a known working fuse box to eliminate the fuse box as a problem, i have not got any motoronics fuse boxes left, but if any of you guys have a good spare to help Rob out or any ideas as to what this may be would be fantastic.

The work i did on Robs Range Rover would have started any other i have done in the past so this is the reason I'm betting on the fuse box as it started and ran just before Rob shorted out the fuse box. :)
 
my p38 will be going back on the road at the end of october,if you pay the postage both ways you can borrow the fusebox to prove it one way or another.my tub is a m.y 2000 4.6 vogue
 
Saint i will try a search mate cheers..
Strange days...thanks for the support i need it mate...
Pete the biker...i do like it but its wearing thin on me now to be fair fella...

Doug...thanks for adding the information i was lost off on the techie stuff...

Marcinbrighton... marc i took some reading from my maxi fuse line up and got the following results

With fuses removed and fuse one being the one nearer the center of the fuse box and 5 being at the edge

Left pin nearest the drivers wing...

MF1= 60A = 12.55V (RIGHT FUSE PIN = 9V LIVE)
MF2= 50A = DEAD NO VOLT OR EARTH (RIGHT FUSE PIN = 12.55V)
MF3= 40A = DEAD NO VOLT OR EARTH (RIGHT FUSE PIN = 12.55V)
MF4= 60A = 12.55V (RIGHT FUSE PIN = DIM LIGHT ON TEST LIGHT BUT STILL 12.55V)
MF5= 60A = 12.55V (RIGHT FUSE PIN = DIM LIGHT BUT WHEN TEST LIGHT CONNECTED TO BATTERY LIVE)

To clarify maxi fuse 5 is nearest front of car left pin is the connector where the maxi fuse slots in nearest the drivers wing right pin is otherside of maxi fuse nearest the engine...
 
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Not sure if this helps or is relevant ethier but the warning transmission fault is coming up on display as well but only since its had its issues with its electrics mind was fine till before then....

i need JIM ILL FIX IT im on the bottom....
 
neo2 said:
Not sure if this helps or is relevant ethier but the warning transmission fault is coming up on display as well but only since its had its issues with its electrics mind was fine till before then....

i need JIM ILL FIX IT im on the bottom....
Click to expand...
Ignore that one for now - lets get this beasty fired up first.

Reading Dougs post it seems he has performed the re-sync of BeCM to the EMS/ECU so the next thing is the fuse box....
 
marcinbrighton said:
Hi Rob,

Been following the post with interest, definitely worth hanging in there, they are so much fun to drive. Yours looks exactly like mine :).

Have you checked the maxi fuse for power? that would at least show if the fuse board is shot. I've just checked mine, with the fuse out, the terminal on the wing side of the fuse board should be live.

If it's not, it might be worth trying to put a cable (make sure its the same size cable) in to jumper the board. i.e put it in from the terminal to the same side of the maxifuse (you want to make sure its still going through the fuse!!). If you can't manage to squeeze a cable in with the fuse at the same terminal, try a jumper cable to the engine side of the fuse holder, but make sure you put a inline fuse on the jumper cable (I'm sure halfrauds will have something). Just make sure its fused - not sure doug would be too happy with another fry up!!

At least that would show you if it is the board that's shot. Not sure how easy it would be to do in practice tho, but saves buying a new board if its not the board that's the problem.

Oh yeah, sucking eggs maybe, but make sure you disconnect the battery before connecting new cables!!! ;)

Cheers

Marc
Click to expand...
look neo what a fella have you noticed this post ?????
 
sassanach said:
my p38 will be going back on the road at the end of october,if you pay the postage both ways you can borrow the fusebox to prove it one way or another.my tub is a m.y 2000 4.6 vogue
Click to expand...

Oops sorry ment this one a free trail what a fella have you noticed neo ????
 
neo2 said:
With fuses removed and fuse one being the one nearer the center of the fuse box and 5 being at the edge

Left pin nearest the drivers wing...

MF1= 60A = 12.55V (RIGHT FUSE PIN = 9V LIVE)
MF2= 50A = DEAD NO VOLT OR EARTH (RIGHT FUSE PIN = 12.55V)
MF3= 40A = DEAD NO VOLT OR EARTH (RIGHT FUSE PIN = 12.55V)
MF4= 60A = 12.55V (RIGHT FUSE PIN = DIM LIGHT ON TEST LIGHT BUT STILL 12.55V)
MF5= 60A = 12.55V (RIGHT FUSE PIN = DIM LIGHT BUT WHEN TEST LIGHT CONNECTED TO BATTERY LIVE)

To clarify maxi fuse 5 is nearest front of car left pin is the connector where the maxi fuse slots in nearest the drivers wing right pin is otherside of maxi fuse nearest the engine...
Click to expand...


Hi,
I just did the same on mine to compare, 2&3 were the same, but the right hand pins (nearest the engine) on mine for 1&4 were 0V.

My understanding is that one side of a fuse should be live, but when the fuse is removed the other side should be dead (kinda the point of the fuse methinks). Given that, I don't think you should be reading any voltage on the right hand side of 1&4.

That said, my fuse 5 had 2.25 volts on the other side to the 12v, so my fuse box might not be in the best shape:). I'm sure someone on here will know more about why these are than I do, so I'm just offering a comparison.

I would give a word of caution though if you are planning to give my earlier idea of the jumpering cable a go. If you are reading 9V on the right hand side of fuse1, jumpering it may give more short circuiting problem. just a thought/warning.

It does sound like something's burnt across the board. Are you able to take it out and post pics?

Cheers

Marc
 
Marc ive had the fuse box to bits already and i cant see anything doug was here when i did it but its two printed curcuit boards soldered back to back and unless you split them and wreck the fuse box to do it its no do able but another member is going to lend me his to try before i buy one im not going to bridge or jump anthing over to be fair ive fuc**d up once and thats how i got here in the first place to be honest....i do how ever appreiciate your dianosis and information and i thank you for that keep it coming if you think it might help me ive ran out of stuff...
 
Hi Rob, know exactly how you feel. I bought mine drove it home and then the next day ... nada! Took me weeks to get it going with continuous help from the guys on here.

I don't know how the petrol let alone an automatic works but given a fusebox costs £150 and hoping the fuse blew before anything else I think it might be worth chucking a few thoughts in the mix.

My other car is an auto and I don't think it'll start unless it is in park. Could the gearbox fault be causing it to think it isn't in park or neutral and stopping it from starting?

You say there is no spark. My feeling would be to trace the electricity back from there. So, the spark plus will probably be connected to a DIS-pack of some sort, or it might have coil packs. RAVE should tell you what to expect there but you might need some help from the chaps here to interpret the diagrams. If still nothing then I guess the next best bet would be the connection to the fusebox and the relays in the fusebox. There might be a relay you could swap over or didn't someone earlier in this thread off you a fusebox to borrow and test? Sure I read something like that. I'd accept the offer!
 
Oh, and although mine's a diesel the original reason I had issues was a knackered alternator. That should show up on the dash though. Not sure how a petrol would behave.
 
Grrrrrr said:
Hi Rob, know exactly how you feel. I bought mine drove it home and then the next day ... nada! Took me weeks to get it going with continuous help from the guys on here.

I don't know how the petrol let alone an automatic works but given a fusebox costs £150 and hoping the fuse blew before anything else I think it might be worth chucking a few thoughts in the mix.

My other car is an auto and I don't think it'll start unless it is in park. Could the gearbox fault be causing it to think it isn't in park or neutral and stopping it from starting?

You say there is no spark. My feeling would be to trace the electricity back from there. So, the spark plus will probably be connected to a DIS-pack of some sort, or it might have coil packs. RAVE should tell you what to expect there but you might need some help from the chaps here to interpret the diagrams. If still nothing then I guess the next best bet would be the connection to the fusebox and the relays in the fusebox. There might be a relay you could swap over or didn't someone earlier in this thread off you a fusebox to borrow and test? Sure I read something like that. I'd accept the offer!
Click to expand...
Good call, but the Inhibit prevents the engine turning over - Neo's turns over, just no spark!
 
As said I had similar with the gearbox fault took the fue box out and split it cut through all the pins once opened could see the problem it was really badly corroded but on the inside not the outside I repaired it and it was ok for a few months then I replaced it and never looked back but mine is a 4.6 gems they reckon the fuse boxes are only good for about 8 yrs
 
Hi guys ive spoken to sassanach and he is sending me his fuse box up hopefully tomorrow for the price of postage both ways i thank him for that lots, once fitted if it works i think i will buy probs an new one if its definatly that if its not where do i go from there Engine ECU ????

Rob
 
neo2 said:
Hi guys ive spoken to sassanach and he is sending me his fuse box up hopefully tomorrow for the price of postage both ways i thank him for that lots, once fitted if it works i think i will buy probs an new one if its definatly that if its not where do i go from there Engine ECU ????

Rob
Click to expand...
That would certainly be the next logical step - first I'd change the Fusebox then if you can get it on diagnostics to see if you can read live data from the Engine ECU - I know the engine isn't running yet, but if you can connect to it to read live data, maybe it is sound...

Doug did say he can connect to read fault codes and set the Sync Code to the ECU, so maybe it is OK but not knowing the system layout - it could be the diagnostic side of the ECU is fine, but the 'How to run an Engine' side could be kaput...Live Data will tell you that the 'How to run and Engine' side is atleast receiving and acknowledging something...

The short could have fried the Coil Packs - but I am sure that would cause a fault to be logged and/or the check engine light to be lit...but you never know...

No spark can be caused by a fe wthings:

No power to coil packs
ECU not receiving an engine turning over signal from either the Cam sensor or the Crank Sensor
Duff Coil packs
Duff ECU

When my much older 3.9 Classic decided that not starting was a good idea, I traced that to the small resistor in the ignition LT side that fed back to the ECU to tell it 'The coil is firing and as such the engine is turning over so do something to make it run....'

If the ECU isn't getting an 'Engine is turning over' signal, it won't fire the coil pack!
 
Now we're cooking. No wonder he is called Saint. People will be driving poorly Rangies over his grave after he dies hoping to cure them!

Come on Neo! You can do it!
 
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