1996 P38 2.5 DSE Non starter!

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I haven't touched any of the electronics other than checking all the fuses, unfortunately I don't have any diagnostics for P38. Suppose I could have spiked the ecu when reconnecting the battery after a charge? The old girl has always been a good starter, hot or cold! If I had fuel... she would run? Where is fuel pump fuse etc.. to try a bypass?
 
jimmacD said:
I haven't touched any of the electronics other than checking all the fuses, unfortunately I don't have any diagnostics for P38. Suppose I could have spiked the ecu when reconnecting the battery after a charge? The old girl has always been a good starter, hot or cold! If I had fuel... she would run? Where is fuel pump fuse etc.. to try a bypass?
Click to expand...

The fuel pump relay is relay 12.
Its the one marked in my attachment (not my picture) its the yellow relay all the way upfront towards front of car. Middle relay.

if the picture is not shown, thank my phone :D

If you run a wire between the two slots in the middle of the relay then it will force intank fuel pump on.

But also loosen up the pipe on a injector or them all. I suppose if your not in a cold climate it wont matter if you have glowplugs or some bad ones…
But mainly try to see if intank pump works.
Ive heard if you have 1/4 of a tank of diesel with a deffect intank pump it might not start… It depends on the car and its general condition i believe.
 

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synchro said:
The fuel pump relay is relay 12.
Its the one marked in my attachment (not my picture) its the yellow relay all the way upfront towards front of car. Middle relay.

if the picture is not shown, thank my phone :D

If you run a wire between the two slots in the middle of the relay then it will force intank fuel pump on.

But also loosen up the pipe on a injector or them all. I suppose if your not in a cold climate it wont matter if you have glowplugs or some bad ones…
But mainly try to see if intank pump works.
Ive heard if you have 1/4 of a tank of diesel with a deffect intank pump it might not start… It depends on the car and its general condition i believe.
Click to expand...
Ta, will give it a try over the weekend!
 
jimmacD said:
I haven't touched any of the electronics other than checking all the fuses, unfortunately I don't have any diagnostics for P38. Suppose I could have spiked the ecu when reconnecting the battery after a charge? The old girl has always been a good starter, hot or cold! If I had fuel... she would run? Where is fuel pump fuse etc.. to try a bypass?
Click to expand...
synchro said:
The fuel pump relay is relay 12.
Its the one marked in my attachment (not my picture) its the yellow relay all the way upfront towards front of car. Middle relay.

if the picture is not shown, thank my phone :D

If you run a wire between the two slots in the middle of the relay then it will force intank fuel pump on.

But also loosen up the pipe on a injector or them all. I suppose if your not in a cold climate it wont matter if you have glowplugs or some bad ones…
But mainly try to see if intank pump works.
Ive heard if you have 1/4 of a tank of diesel with a deffect intank pump it might not start… It depends on the car and its general condition i believe.
Click to expand...
Had a fiddle this morning, took out relay etc... she started straight up! Swapped over relays..... she still starts up! I swapped out the relays as the first job thinking this might be the problem, no other faults in the car to show a blown relay so I assumed that wasn't the issue? Maybe starting the old girl cleared up a poor connection... warmed up a solder joint? Who knows? Just happy that she is up and running again! Thank you all for your help, best forum on interweb.
 
jimmacD said:
Had a fiddle this morning, took out relay etc... she started straight up! Swapped over relays..... she still starts up! I swapped out the relays as the first job thinking this might be the problem, no other faults in the car to show a blown relay so I assumed that wasn't the issue? Maybe starting the old girl cleared up a poor connection... warmed up a solder joint? Who knows? Just happy that she is up and running again! Thank you all for your help, best forum on interweb.
Click to expand...
Quite possibly the fuse box itself the joints go dry inside due to heat, had a very similar issue with mine I did take mine apart and resoldered it and was the cause even tho when I continuity checked with a volt meter it showed up as good, if does end up being that fit new and forget I spent nearly a week trying to find it as ut seemed to test OK
 
Bern768 said:
Quite possibly the fuse box itself the joints go dry inside due to heat, had a very similar issue with mine I did take mine apart and resoldered it and was the cause even tho when I continuity checked with a volt meter it showed up as good, if does end up being that fit new and forget I spent nearly a week trying to find it as ut seemed to test OK
Click to expand...
It is probably due a new fuse box at some point. Don't really fancy trying to split the boards and my soldering skills are questionable.
 
jimmacD said:
It is probably due a new fuse box at some point. Don't really fancy trying to split the boards and my soldering skills are questionable.
Click to expand...
i only soldered mine together as a test as mine is one of the last p38s and at the time I could only find a new genuine one and wanted to be sure as it wasn't cheap but when I took it apart the are a very crap design
 
Bern768 said:
i only soldered mine together as a test as mine is one of the last p38s and at the time I could only find a new genuine one and wanted to be sure as it wasn't cheap but when I took it apart the are a very crap design
Click to expand...
Here we are again.... stuck new thermostat, waterpump and aircon pulley/belt on her.... went to start and nothing again! Tried previous jump between power and fuel pump on fuse board and nothing, tested for power and nothing! I can only assume the fuse box has given up the ghost, time to get the solder out? She has been starting fine, sat for a few days whilst waiting on parts, big arse battery with a full charge.
 
Had a quick fiddle with circuit tester on the under bonnet fuse box... power from battery to fuel pump relay, nothing from ignition side. I bridged the battery/pump connections which worked last time.... glow plug light and engine ran, this time I could hear the tank pump working but no glow plug light and non start? Took a live feed to the ignition side and plugged relay back in.... tank pump working but no glow plug light and non start?
What else is there on the fuse box which would stop the glow plugs from working and the main full pump... is there a stop/start solenoid which needs power? Seen some posts about running a live to the main fuel pump but I thought they were mechanical on the P38, hence the issues with timing and stretched chains? Had a look around under the bonnet and can't see any obvious power lead going to the pump.
 
The stop solenoid is on the injection head at the back of the fuel pump where pipes come out looks like a 27mm nut with a wire on top(normally covered with a little rubber boot).

Have you checked the metal fuse on the glow plug relay that's tucked in with the ecu on the battery tray??
 
have you an hotstart fitted? They use a relay that messes with glows/pump. Later ones don’t need them but sometimes people fit them anyway. Normal spot is 2 wires coming out of the back of the edc ecu box

Stop solenoid in FIP should click when it’s powered from ignition. Put your hand on it and get someone to turn key
 
Bern768 said:
The stop solenoid is on the injection head at the back of the fuel pump where pipes come out looks like a 27mm nut with a wire on top(normally covered with a little rubber boot).

Have you checked the metal fuse on the glow plug relay that's tucked in with the ecu on the battery tray??
Click to expand...
Yep, power to the glow plug fuse, have taken ecu out and cleaned connections.
 
RangeRoller dt said:
have you an hotstart fitted? They use a relay that messes with glows/pump. Later ones don’t need them but sometimes people fit them anyway. Normal spot is 2 wires coming out of the back of the edc ecu box

Stop solenoid in FIP should click when it’s powered from ignition. Put your hand on it and get someone to turn key
Click to expand...
No hot start chip, I had o one fitted on my last 2.5, binned it and got the fuel pump timed correctly.
The previous owner said it did have a power chip? I can't find any evidence of one or the ecu being played with.... bit fooked off with the old girl as she ran sweetly last week.... then didn't..... then did... and now doesn't! My L322 has sprung a leak so new rad on order and up to the top of the list, having to use the "gaylander" as my daily while Wifey uses the car for work.
 
jimmacD said:
Had a quick fiddle with circuit tester on the under bonnet fuse box... power from battery to fuel pump relay, nothing from ignition side. I bridged the battery/pump connections which worked last time.... glow plug light and engine ran, this time I could hear the tank pump working but no glow plug light and non start? Took a live feed to the ignition side and plugged relay back in.... tank pump working but no glow plug light and non start?
What else is there on the fuse box which would stop the glow plugs from working and the main full pump... is there a stop/start solenoid which needs power? Seen some posts about running a live to the main fuel pump but I thought they were mechanical on the P38, hence the issues with timing and stretched chains? Had a look around under the bonnet and can't see any obvious power lead going to the pump.
Click to expand...

The FIP is part mechanical and part electronic, hence EDC. The main timing is controlled by the timing chain but that is fine tuned electronically and the throttle is pure fly-by-wire - pot on accelerator pedal. There's also an emergency shut off valve with a button behind the driver's kick panel.

Won't start cold without glows. Glow plugs are controlled by the ECU with a big eff-off fuse under it. If fuse is OK and still no power to the glow-plugs I would first be checking for loss of sync but if that is fine I would check all earth connections.
 
Grrrrrr said:
The FIP is part mechanical and part electronic, hence EDC. The main timing is controlled by the timing chain but that is fine tuned electronically and the throttle is pure fly-by-wire - pot on accelerator pedal. There's also an emergency shut off valve with a button behind the driver's kick panel.

Won't start cold without glows. Glow plugs are controlled by the ECU with a big eff-off fuse under it. If fuse is OK and still no power to the glow-plugs I would first be checking for loss of sync but if that is fine I would check all earth connections.
Click to expand...
I have sync mate which comes up with ecu not talking to becm? Did that last time... bypassed FIP relay and up she started! So I don't think it is a problem with either ecu or becm. The ecu is getting power. I just wonder if a knackered fuse motherboard would cause these symptoms... in theory there would be no power to any accessories/equipment rather than selective.... still doesn't explain why I am not getting a current from the ignition to the FIP relay. I will go around and clean all the earths up including the driver's footwell which looks susceptible to corrosion.
 
RangeRoller dt said:
Sweet mother in heaven :eek:

Can you look around on LZIR for someone with a Nanocom? There’s few about offering a clear and read.
Click to expand...
Did put the call out before... in the depths of Lincolnshire on the backend of nowhere. Had a local "expert" look at my Jag... fooked the ecu and wanted £350 for the pleasure. Bit thin on the ground around here for useful help. Loads of peeps who "specialise" in LR but sometimes they know even less than me or want to replace everything! I am sure my issues are something stupid like a bad earth or a failed fuse box.
 
jimmacD said:
Did put the call out before... in the depths of Lincolnshire on the backend of nowhere. Had a local "expert" look at my Jag... fooked the ecu and wanted £350 for the pleasure. Bit thin on the ground around here for useful help. Loads of peeps who "specialise" in LR but sometimes they know even less than me or want to replace everything! I am sure my issues are something stupid like a bad earth or a failed fuse box.
Click to expand...

When I took my 2001 Jag in the MK lot wouldn't touch it because they'd upgraded their software and apparently it sometimes "bricks" the ECU on earlier cars. They advised me to go to Luton who were still on the old version. How the MK lot learned that I don't know.
 
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