110 300tdi cranks but wont start, perhaps fuel starved

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CaptainHair

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My pug 306 Daily Driver went into the garage for a week, so of course it was time for the defender to spit its dummy out.
300tdi 110 defender SW, Snorkel air intake fitted, EGR removed and blanked, 2 button fob alarm/immobiliser.

Symptoms: Cranks over perfectly fine but will not start, as if theres no fuel.

Story: So been using him on a 1 hour round trip for past 3 days everything perfectly fine. Went to start him up today and he would crank over but *no* sign of catching to start the engine, just cranking. At this point I''ll note, I usually unplug the fuel solonoid overnight just to add an extra step for theives, so I assumed that I had forgotten to plug it back in as the symptoms were the same. But no, everything connected properly. After a bit of head scratching and double/triple checking the solonoid connection I try again, fires up first time. So I turn him off and spend 10 minutes getting everyone ready and the dogs in the car, start him up again and off we go no problem. About 15 minutes into the journey, on a nice straight road thankfully, the engine splutters a bit and turns off. Luckily I managed to coast over to a farmers gate entrance so I was safely off the road. After spending a good few hours I ended up being towed home by a friend.

I tried removing the spring and plunger from the fuel solonoid but it still didn't start (lost the spring too whoops, so I'll have to buy a new one) and had also tried running 12v straight to the solonoid to rule out any electrical problems. It'll crank over as much as I ask, but sounds like its getting no fuel through.
The fuel tank seal is*slightly* seeping fuel out by the looks of it, the mud directly around the seal is slightly damp. Anyone have any suggestions on where to begin?
I've also noticed posts and the haynes manual saying to check the fuel filter - anyone know where I might find this on a 110 300tdi? I've not had any luck yet.

I'm going to keep reading posts and the haynes to see if I find anything, but any help is greatly appriciated, cheers :)
 
Filter should be on the bulkhead drivers side, id have a stab at the fuel lift pump they are known for failing
follow the fuel pipe from the filter down to the engine block there is a lever on it to prime the pump
pump it up & open the bleed screw on the filter housing to bleed it & see if it starts.
 
First thing is crack an injector to check for fuel. Second thing is to suspect the lift pump (and in tank pump if you have one). Any flashing from the immobiliser light?
 
Excellent suggestions, thanks guys!

Fuel filter - I actually ment fuel sedimenter but after checking the Haynes it says this is optional fitment, so I guess I dont have one!

I'll nip out tomorrow when I've got light and try the lift pump with fuel filter bleed open as that seems an easy one.
When checking the injectors, I'm assuming you slightly loosen one and then crank the engine to see if any seeps out? I've not had much experience with injectors, but I know they can be a wee bit dangerous so thought I'd ask.

Immobiliser light wasn't flashing, I even tried immobilising and un immobilising to make sure. Also pretty sure the only thing it affects is the fuel shut off solenoid, which I tried bypassing with 12 from the battery directly. So I'm pretty sure that, for once, the immobiliser isn't to blame :p God knows its given me enough grief over the years.
 
Yes, slacken off the nut and crank, should be fuel straight away if all's good. Replace leak off pipes or at least check that they haven't gone hard/brittle/split.
I had a similar problem on my 200tdi and it was a crack in the leak off pipe on number 4 injector so look for damp fuel patches around the injectors.
Sounds like air getting in somewhere which causes the fuel to run back from the highest point first and being replaced by air, cranking long enough might expell this air and she will start but that's not ideal of course and you need to find where the air is getting in.
I replaced my fuel lines with clear(ISH) nylon air tube which makes fault finding much easier, I could see the tube had no fuel in it going to the injector pump when my leak off pipe split.
The cam driven lift pump can and do fail , I don't have one and instead have a facet 12v fitted.
Keep your skin away from the loosened injector nut, it's high pressure , just use common sense.
 
Accidentally broken my shut off solenoid, so can't do proper testing till tomorrow, but went out earlier and got some testing done.

Firstly, I checked the leak off pipes, the central one is in pretty bad shape, took a picture.

20190912_144002.jpg

It doesn't appear to actually be broken through both layers, but I'm definitely replacing it because it can't be far off.

I then decided to try the fuel lift pump. The little level moves down to the bottom (till it hits like a metal tab, so that's as far as the level goes) and gently springs itself back up when released. I loosened the bleed bolt on the fuel filter (enough to see the notches on the threaded section) and began pumping, but nothing. No bubbles, no air, no fuel. I pumped the lever for several minutes and nothing happened, nor did I feel any kind of pressure buildup or change in resistance of the pump.

I also tried cranking the engine a couple of times to change the cam position of the fuel lift pump, but it didn't seem to make any difference to the lever? Maybe I wasn't cranking the engine enough, or maybe it's a sign something in tersely jas failed?

So, I'm pretty sure I should have been getting fuel out the bleed bolt. So my thinking is the problem should lie with the lift pump, or upstream back to the tank?

Would it be worth trying to remove the fuel lift pump to inspect it for damage? I'm assuming I can probably test if it works when removed from the car since its a basic in/out pump?

Thanks again for the help :)

Edit: it's a delphi lift pump, so I unscrewed the top and a wee bit of fuel came out. Cleaned the filter, refitted and put back together. Tried pumping it a bunch, occasionally cranking engine to change cam position. But still no fuel out of filter bleed bolt and adittionally if I remove top of lift pump it no longer leaks fuel, suggesting to me that it hasn't pulled any new from the tank?
 
Last edited:
You could whip it off and try it in your hand, you'll feel the suck/blow from the ports if it's any good.
 
Flossie said:
You could whip it off and try it in your hand, you'll feel the suck/blow from the ports if it's any good.
Click to expand...

Just done that now, finger over one port and I get suction, finger over the other port and I get positive pressure.

So I guess that rules it out? Should I look at things upstream, which I think only leaves fuel tank and fuel line?
 
You could get a can of fresh fuel and run it direct from that sitting on the wing. If it runs you know the issue is before that.
Or
Take the line off the fuel filter to injector pump and crank, fuel should pump out-no fuel?, Take line off from lift pump to filter and crank again- no fuel? Blocked line to tank etc.
 
Nah theres no sedimenter, so just fuel line and tank before the lift pump. So my plan for tomorrow is:
1: Purchase and fit new solenoid
2: Refit lift pump, leaving output hose disconnected. Crank engine and check for fuel pumping through (just to be double sure that fuel still isnt making it past the lift pump.
3: Disconnect both ends of fuel line and blow through it or otherwise check flow and clear out any debris.
4: If still no fuel, look at checking the fuel tank fittings and clear it out.

Oh good idea about the fuel, I've got a load of those small green fuel holders so I'll maybe try one of those too, cheers!
 
Had to take a small break from working on the landy as the peugeot came back from the garage unfixed. Had a nasty rattle as gearbox oil had run down, thought it had a big leak. But no, just a small seeping, so refilled with fresh oil and its going again smoother than it has in months. So at least from now I can take my time on the land rover and not be rushed.

I did go out this evening though and refitted the fuel lift pump and the new shut off solenoid, thankfuly it still cranked but wouldnt turn over, which I'm glad about as I'd much rather have a constant problem than an intermittent one! The leak in the tank needs fixing anyway, so I should really look at taking the tank off, replacing the seal and change the fuel line and leak off tubing too. In amongst that I'll try running it on fuel from a container as that seems an easy way of testing if the tank/fuel line are to blame.
 
CaptainHair said:
Had to take a small break from working on the landy as the peugeot came back from the garage unfixed. Had a nasty rattle as gearbox oil had run down, thought it had a big leak. But no, just a small seeping, so refilled with fresh oil and its going again smoother than it has in months. So at least from now I can take my time on the land rover and not be rushed.

I did go out this evening though and refitted the fuel lift pump and the new shut off solenoid, thankfuly it still cranked but wouldnt turn over, which I'm glad about as I'd much rather have a constant problem than an intermittent one! The leak in the tank needs fixing anyway, so I should really look at taking the tank off, replacing the seal and change the fuel line and leak off tubing too. In amongst that I'll try running it on fuel from a container as that seems an easy way of testing if the tank/fuel line are to blame.
Click to expand...
Try cranking with the line off from lift pump to filter first, as Flossie recommended. Have you got someone who can crank it for you while you watch? Be careful, the fuel will flee out if it's working. I took my lift pump off once and was looking at it when I pressed the cam foot. I jet of diesel hit me in the face. :rolleyes: Fortunately, I wear glasses other wise I would have had pretty high pressure diesel in the eyes. :eek: :)

EDIT
I know you've tried it off the Landy, but might be worth trying it pulling the diesel through.
 
Hah yeah I did a similar thing when I took the pump off, missed my face though luckily.

Raining today and the battery is nearly dead now, so I'll have to put it on charge for more tests tomorrow. I did remove the pump to filter pipe (at the pump end) fuel dribbled out and when I cranked it the test-tissue I put infront of it got soaked with diesel, so thats added to the confusion. I also removed the fuel cap on the offchance that was to blame.

So I guess my next test once the battery is charged is to remove the pump-to-filter pipe, at the filter end this time, and see if fuel is making it through the pipe. Curious though that fuel is moving through the pump but not making it to the filter bleed bolt. I'm starting to get concerned that it is an intermittent problem after all.
 
CaptainHair said:
Hah yeah I did a similar thing when I took the pump off, missed my face though luckily.

Raining today and the battery is nearly dead now, so I'll have to put it on charge for more tests tomorrow. I did remove the pump to filter pipe (at the pump end) fuel dribbled out and when I cranked it the test-tissue I put infront of it got soaked with diesel, so thats added to the confusion. I also removed the fuel cap on the offchance that was to blame.

So I guess my next test once the battery is charged is to remove the pump-to-filter pipe, at the filter end this time, and see if fuel is making it through the pipe. Curious though that fuel is moving through the pump but not making it to the filter bleed bolt. I'm starting to get concerned that it is an intermittent problem after all.
Click to expand...
Air locks cause funny effects in fluid systems.
 
Finally got chance to have another crack at it today. Fuel is absolutely getting to the input and output of the fuel filter, cracked them loose a little (one at a time) and a good bit of fuel came out when the engine was cranked.

Nothing comes out of the bleed on the filter though if it's open? Not sure what that means to be honest, from what I've read online I should at least be getting bubbly fuel forming, but nothing. The threads of the bolt aren't even damp with fuel if I remove it and wipe it on a cloth.

Next check when I get chance will be to crack loose the injectors where they go into the engine and see if fuel is making it there or not.
 
This is like an Miss Marple mechanical mystery hunt...
So could it be the lift-pump afterall?
 
FFs is this not going yet….where are you located ??
Go & get an outboard fuel primer pump & a bit of fuel hose, connect it to the fuel pipe coming from the tank
bypass the lift pump & filter & connect it to the injection pump & prime it up you will feel the fuel in the bulb.
Crack no1 injector & turn it over see if you have fuel then see if it starts.
 
Aye sorry I've been a bit slow with it, been sick for about a month so can't always go out and work on it, also trying to buy a house at the mo so spending alot of time doing paperwork.

Enough excuses though, went out today and had another go at it. Cracked the injector at the front of the engine and turned it over, no fuel came out.

I also removed the tube going to the first leak pipe thing for the fuel return and got fuel and bubbles coming out metal fitting (the bit that's bolted on, has 2 small flared pipe fittings on it) if that means anything.

I also took the fuel shut off solenoid out and tested to to make sure it still works (it does). And when only loosely fitted fuel leaks out around that too.

So, feels like fuel is making it upto the injectors, but not through. Assuming fuel in the leak off pipe is older fuel.

Battery is dead again now, as is my charger apparantly. So off to shops to see if I can get a new one and charge it for tomorrow's attempt.

I do appreciate everyone's help, and apologies for taking so long
 
It can take a while for fuel to reach the injectors if the lines are dry, that's what the hand primer on the lift pump is for. Use that with the ign on and keep going until fuel comes out a loose injector pipe.
I've not read all the thread again and maybe you've checked...but the FIP is going round when you crank isn't it? Remove the circular plate on the front timing case and you will see it turning whilst cranking.
 
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