Freelander 1 Auto 1.8
- Thread starter andyfreelandy
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GrumpyGel
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- Christchurch, New Zealand
To the best of my knowledge, you are correct, its plastic.
If I really put my thinking cap on, there's plastic that can be recycled and plastic that can't - dunno why, maybe the stuff that can't is made from Russian oil.
Not much help really, like I have been through your project, but I've enjoyed reading it.
If I really put my thinking cap on, there's plastic that can be recycled and plastic that can't - dunno why, maybe the stuff that can't is made from Russian oil.
Not much help really, like I have been through your project, but I've enjoyed reading it.
andyfreelandy
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Dunno but if you stuff it up I have a spare one 
I may have a resolution to my gearbox rattles. We shall see.
Yesterday I went to visit an auto gearbox specialist for them to have a listen.
They were adamant that the noise sounded like something outside of the gearbox, so inside the bell housing. They said it sounded like the flex plate, or bolts into the torque converter, or something like that is rubbing.
It would explain why the noise seems to be diminishing with time, as whatever is rubbing wears away.
Then on the way home I stopped at a paint shop to get some paint for the outer sills.
On restarting the noise got a loss worse and permanent, so I cut it off. After that it wouldn't start (starter motor not turning over). I left it a few minutes and then it would start, noise gone.
So I'm thinking that I don't have enough clearance from the starter ring and the starter motor teeth, or maybe I have a sticky starter motor that's not retracting enough.
I am using a standard bell housing, torque converter, flex plate, starter ring and starter motor so you would think that this would remain all stock, but, my flex plate is now bolted to a 1.8 K series crank, not a V6. Exact positioning of the the torque flex plate and torque converter compared with the gearbox input/oil pump does depend on the thickness of the converter plate and machining of the bell housing. Maybe (probably) I have it slightly closer that it was as stock and the tolerance of starter motor to starter ring is too close.
The good news is that if true it's easy to fix. It's just removing and repairing or replacing the starter motor. Probably it could do with a spacer to bring it back a bit. If the starter motor is ruined they aren't expensive. At least I won't have to drop the IRS and gearbox again. So I'm hopeful.
Yesterday I went to visit an auto gearbox specialist for them to have a listen.
They were adamant that the noise sounded like something outside of the gearbox, so inside the bell housing. They said it sounded like the flex plate, or bolts into the torque converter, or something like that is rubbing.
It would explain why the noise seems to be diminishing with time, as whatever is rubbing wears away.
Then on the way home I stopped at a paint shop to get some paint for the outer sills.
On restarting the noise got a loss worse and permanent, so I cut it off. After that it wouldn't start (starter motor not turning over). I left it a few minutes and then it would start, noise gone.
So I'm thinking that I don't have enough clearance from the starter ring and the starter motor teeth, or maybe I have a sticky starter motor that's not retracting enough.
I am using a standard bell housing, torque converter, flex plate, starter ring and starter motor so you would think that this would remain all stock, but, my flex plate is now bolted to a 1.8 K series crank, not a V6. Exact positioning of the the torque flex plate and torque converter compared with the gearbox input/oil pump does depend on the thickness of the converter plate and machining of the bell housing. Maybe (probably) I have it slightly closer that it was as stock and the tolerance of starter motor to starter ring is too close.
The good news is that if true it's easy to fix. It's just removing and repairing or replacing the starter motor. Probably it could do with a spacer to bring it back a bit. If the starter motor is ruined they aren't expensive. At least I won't have to drop the IRS and gearbox again. So I'm hopeful.
andyfreelandy
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- Devon
That was my take on it from what you said.
Maybe the starter welding affected the bendix arrangement and, as you say, it isn't returning.
Hoping it's simple.
Maybe the starter welding affected the bendix arrangement and, as you say, it isn't returning.
Hoping it's simple.
the results are in:-
weld let go on the pinion.
I think that I have been incredibly lucky. It that had fallen off and gone round the flex plate or torque converter I think that there's a real chance that it would have smashed it's way out of the bell housing.
Everything looks okay on the flexplate / starter ring:-
I spent some time yesterday trying to drill some holes into the pinion and shaft so that I could tap and insert some grub screws, but I think it's impossible. Even brand new cobolt drills hardly scratch it.
I also tried to take the starter motor to bits but the long cross head screws are very, very stuck in there.
I spent the evening reading about brazing and soldering and I have ordered some 56% silver solder rods and flux and I think I'm going to try and solder it on. I can apparently be done with a good propane torch and the heat is low enough that it doesn't unharden hardened steel. I think that a silver solder joint that covers the entire length of the splines is going to be a lot stronger than a few mm deep weld. I just wonder if I can get it hot enough without destroying the starter motor.
Fortunately, these V6 starter motors seem to be plentiful and cheap.
weld let go on the pinion.
I think that I have been incredibly lucky. It that had fallen off and gone round the flex plate or torque converter I think that there's a real chance that it would have smashed it's way out of the bell housing.
Everything looks okay on the flexplate / starter ring:-
I spent some time yesterday trying to drill some holes into the pinion and shaft so that I could tap and insert some grub screws, but I think it's impossible. Even brand new cobolt drills hardly scratch it.
I also tried to take the starter motor to bits but the long cross head screws are very, very stuck in there.
I spent the evening reading about brazing and soldering and I have ordered some 56% silver solder rods and flux and I think I'm going to try and solder it on. I can apparently be done with a good propane torch and the heat is low enough that it doesn't unharden hardened steel. I think that a silver solder joint that covers the entire length of the splines is going to be a lot stronger than a few mm deep weld. I just wonder if I can get it hot enough without destroying the starter motor.
Fortunately, these V6 starter motors seem to be plentiful and cheap.
andyfreelandy
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- 5,783
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- Devon
Wonder if another make of starter would.give the shorter length that you need ??
today went a bit better as I managed to dismantle the starter motor:-
so I can just heat the bit that I need to silver solder it, not the whole thing:-
the only part of this that seems plastic is the dust shield on that front bearing.
I guess I'll have to put a wet rag over it or something
I can't remove the bearing because one the pinion is fitted it wouldn't be possible to refit the bearing
so I can just heat the bit that I need to silver solder it, not the whole thing:-
the only part of this that seems plastic is the dust shield on that front bearing.
I guess I'll have to put a wet rag over it or something
I can't remove the bearing because one the pinion is fitted it wouldn't be possible to refit the bearing
I have spent a few days playing with different types of solder.
I got some 56% silver, and it is incredibly strong:-
but, I had to get it very, very hot to make it work. An ordinary propane torch wasn't hot enough and I had to go to MAP X gas. I think it needs something like 650 deg C.
The part that would need heating up contains a spring and bearing that has a plastic dust shield and I think that they would be ruined.
Today I bought some 60/40 lead tin solder and flux and tried that. I flowed into clean steel quite nicely but isn't as strong as the silver solder.
My friend Ben also had some old "plumbers lead" solder sitting around so I tried that too. It seems to have a higher melting temperature than the 60/40 but I just couldn't get it to flow.
So, I went with the 60/40 lead tin.
I started the engine maybe ten times with it and then removed the motor to have a look and it seems fine
I got some 56% silver, and it is incredibly strong:-
but, I had to get it very, very hot to make it work. An ordinary propane torch wasn't hot enough and I had to go to MAP X gas. I think it needs something like 650 deg C.
The part that would need heating up contains a spring and bearing that has a plastic dust shield and I think that they would be ruined.
Today I bought some 60/40 lead tin solder and flux and tried that. I flowed into clean steel quite nicely but isn't as strong as the silver solder.
My friend Ben also had some old "plumbers lead" solder sitting around so I tried that too. It seems to have a higher melting temperature than the 60/40 but I just couldn't get it to flow.
So, I went with the 60/40 lead tin.
I started the engine maybe ten times with it and then removed the motor to have a look and it seems fine
andyfreelandy
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- 5,783
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- Devon
Pop the belt off. Sounds like alternator bearing.
I removed both belts (PAS and alternator). The noise stays the same.
andyfreelandy
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- Devon
Not that then !!
Will listen again.
Will listen again.
The noise definitely varies with input revs, so it's something that's spinning at input speed.
When I looked at this before I noticed that in D but stationary the noise is still there.
The interesting thing about D and stationary is that in that scenario the input shaft is at 0rpm with full engine speed being taken up by the torque converter.
As far as I know in D but stationary, the only components turning are the torque converter (but only input to it) and the oil pump.
I don't think that this noise is being made by the torque converter because internal components are spinning relative to each other, so on a light load, and probably in N, the whole torque converter will properly be spinning together as one unit with little differential between input and output, whereas with a load, or in D but stationary, the speed differential across the torque converter will be much higher, so I would expect the noise to change, but it doesn't.
So basically I think that this must be the oil pump or some other component that spins at oil pump speed.
The way it comes and goes sounds to me like a bearing that's very loose and rattling around or something like that.
I think that if something was rubbing then it would have worn itself away by now.
When I looked at this before I noticed that in D but stationary the noise is still there.
The interesting thing about D and stationary is that in that scenario the input shaft is at 0rpm with full engine speed being taken up by the torque converter.
As far as I know in D but stationary, the only components turning are the torque converter (but only input to it) and the oil pump.
I don't think that this noise is being made by the torque converter because internal components are spinning relative to each other, so on a light load, and probably in N, the whole torque converter will properly be spinning together as one unit with little differential between input and output, whereas with a load, or in D but stationary, the speed differential across the torque converter will be much higher, so I would expect the noise to change, but it doesn't.
So basically I think that this must be the oil pump or some other component that spins at oil pump speed.
The way it comes and goes sounds to me like a bearing that's very loose and rattling around or something like that.
I think that if something was rubbing then it would have worn itself away by now.
