"scrape at mindspring dot com" <scrape@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:jh5mgvo2penlqu3est5keq24gmji0vk1nq@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:06:34 -0700, "Barry White"
> <Singingin@theafterlife.com> wrote:
>
>
> >> %%%% They have no concept of what being self reliant is. I have 6 months of
> >> food stored and 6 months of money to pay bills set aside for any hard times
> >> of mine or close family members. If it even snows hard and the roads are
> >> blocked I don't need to go to the store for anything for a long time.
> >>
> >
> >
> >What a crock. And what do you do on the seventh month? Ask your gawd for loaves of
bread?
>
> His method seems to be working better than yours.

You are blowing smoke out your ass. You have no idea about my lifestyle or anyone else who
posts on Usenet. Be gone, you worthless troll........


 

"David L. Moffitt" <moffitcl@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:xYEOa.464$GP7.25@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "scrape at mindspring dot com" <scrape@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:jh5mgvo2penlqu3est5keq24gmji0vk1nq@4ax.com...
> : On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:06:34 -0700, "Barry White"
> : <Singingin@theafterlife.com> wrote:
> :
> :
> : >> %%%% They have no concept of what being self reliant is. I have 6
> months of
> : >> food stored and 6 months of money to pay bills set aside for any hard
> times
> : >> of mine or close family members. If it even snows hard and the roads
> are
> : >> blocked I don't need to go to the store for anything for a long time.
> : >>
> : >
> : >
> : >What a crock. And what do you do on the seventh month? Ask your gawd for
> loaves of bread?
> :
> : His method seems to be working better than yours.
>
> %%%% He is one of those that will just sit on his ass and just whimper!!!
> :eek:)
>
>

Oh and another pompous asshole pecks out his tortured thoughts......


 

"David L. Moffitt" <moffitcl@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:nFEOa.458$dP7.206@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "Barry White" <Singingin@theafterlife.com> wrote in message
> news:XKDOa.120682$MJ5.41937@fed1read03...
> :
> : "David L. Moffitt" <moffitcl@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> : news:qKzOa.3909$HC3.3437@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com...
the blinders.
>
> %%%% It "is" not effecting me or even my children who each have multiple
> skills. My quality of life continues to improve each year. My income
> steadily increases yearly but I must admit I had a bad year in 2002 and it
> only increased $10,000.
> Maybe you need to find a different vocation and/or new skills to survive
> with. As far as my compassion goes I do extensive community service
> including being a Boy Scouts advisor and former leader and Red Cross
> disaster relief worker. Your community service "is"?

Shooting republicans. Care to step into my sights?


 

"Tbone" <Fatchance@noway.now> wrote in message news:F9OcnWlch_B_vpaiXTWJiA@comcast.com...
> "David L. Moffitt" <moffitcl@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> news:BNEOa.461$YQ7.241@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com...
> >
> > "Barry White" <Singingin@theafterlife.com> wrote in message
> > news:ULDOa.120690$MJ5.77159@fed1read03...
> > :
> > : "David L. Moffitt" <moffitcl@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> > : news:eek:OzOa.3910$yL3.903@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com...
> > : >
> > : > "Papa Smurf" <fakeaddress@Iwantnospam.crap> wrote in message
> > : > news:yJrOa.243$78.26@nwrdny03.gnilink.net...
> > : > :
> > : > : "Barry White" <Singingin@theafterlife.com> wrote in message
> > : > : news:b5rOa.2962$7e.262@fed1read07...
> > : > : >
> > : > : > "David L. Moffitt" <moffitcl@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> > : > : > news:z6qOa.200$cz.133@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...
> > : > : > >
> > : > : > > "Barry White" <Singingin@theafterlife.com> wrote in message
> > : > : > > news:54nOa.2418$7e.1003@fed1read07...
> > : > : > > :
> > : > : > > : > : > (BTW we don't have any widget jobs anymore; just Wart
> >
> > %%%% Can produce from my garden to restock my pantry. My bills at this
> point
> > are very few since everything is paid for and the outgoing money is for
> > utilities and luxury items. You need to take a Financial Peace course from
> > Dave Ramsey it will teach you a lot on managing your money. Go here:
> > http://www.daveramsey.com/ I can pick up enough odd jobs and such to pay
> my
> > utilities for a long time since I only "need" to buy water because I can
> > heat with wood.
>
> Why do you need to buy water. Does it not rain where you live?
>

Well he eats his own bull**** so nothing would surprise me


 

"Barry White" <Singingin@theafterlife.com> wrote in message
news:AcIOa.123439$MJ5.23821@fed1read03...
>
> "David L. Moffitt" <moffitcl@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> news:nFEOa.458$dP7.206@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com...
> >
> > "Barry White" <Singingin@theafterlife.com> wrote in message
> > news:XKDOa.120682$MJ5.41937@fed1read03...
> > :
> > : "David L. Moffitt" <moffitcl@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> > : news:qKzOa.3909$HC3.3437@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com...
> the blinders.
> >
> > %%%% It "is" not effecting me or even my children who each have multiple
> > skills. My quality of life continues to improve each year. My income
> > steadily increases yearly but I must admit I had a bad year in 2002 and
it
> > only increased $10,000.
> > Maybe you need to find a different vocation and/or new skills to survive
> > with. As far as my compassion goes I do extensive community service
> > including being a Boy Scouts advisor and former leader and Red Cross
> > disaster relief worker. Your community service "is"?
>
> Shooting republicans. Care to step into my sights?

Giving back is not one of their strong suits, they prefer to be given to.
Of course, occasionally if the press is looking or as a status symbol, they
might seem to make a gesture.
But genuine help? Why become a leech if you're going to do that sort of
thing?




 

"Barry White" <Singingin@theafterlife.com> wrote in message
news:AcIOa.123439$MJ5.23821@fed1read03...
:
: "David L. Moffitt" <moffitcl@prodigy.net> wrote in message
: news:nFEOa.458$dP7.206@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com...
: >
: > "Barry White" <Singingin@theafterlife.com> wrote in message
: > news:XKDOa.120682$MJ5.41937@fed1read03...
: > :
: > : "David L. Moffitt" <moffitcl@prodigy.net> wrote in message
: > : news:qKzOa.3909$HC3.3437@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com...
: the blinders.
: >
: > %%%% It "is" not effecting me or even my children who each have multiple
: > skills. My quality of life continues to improve each year. My income
: > steadily increases yearly but I must admit I had a bad year in 2002 and
it
: > only increased $10,000.
: > Maybe you need to find a different vocation and/or new skills to survive
: > with. As far as my compassion goes I do extensive community service
: > including being a Boy Scouts advisor and former leader and Red Cross
: > disaster relief worker. Your community service "is"?
:
: Shooting republicans. Care to step into my sights?

%%%% Oh good a hypocrite liberal gunowner who wants a little competition!
Send me your real name and address an I'll see what I can arrange.
:
:


 
On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 16:07:37 -0700, "Barry White"
<Singingin@theafterlife.com> wrote:

>
>"scrape at mindspring dot com" <scrape@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>news:g95mgvs2043a8nvar45b2r1akcsrnrvm3k@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:05:33 -0700, "Barry White"
>> <Singingin@theafterlife.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Congratulations. Your understanding and compassion is remarkable. The fact is YOU are
>> >stuck with it as well (unless you live in another country). This country is sliding
>> >downhill. Wages, benefits & overall quality of life are sliding downward. If you think
>> >that DOES NOT affect you, then kindly remove the blinders.
>>
>> Perhaps he's just tired of hearing about it. Personally, I'm making
>> more than I ever have, my benefits are better than they've ever been
>> and other than not being able to hit the Powerball lottery, I don't
>> have any complaints about my "quality of life". Damndest thing is - I
>> haven't heard a single individual indicate that they think life is
>> "sliding downward". That is except for the occasional unfortunate
>> person on Usenet who has lost his job and likes to complain about how
>> bad everything is.
>>
>> I feel sorry for you, but your situation does not describe the other
>> 95% or whatever that have not lost their job.
>
>First, I did not say I lost my job. Second, we have only your word that you are rolling in
>dough. That word can not be verified. Third, it's a bit less than 95% who have not lost
>their job. Fourth, no matter what Rushbo says, wages, benefits, etc are down. Now Chimpy
>is going after overtime with "comp time." Americans work harder and longer for less than
>the next 5 or 6 major industrialized nations. If you're tired of hearing about it, then I
>suggest you continue to watch Faux or CNN. They rarely speak of anything except
>cheerleading for the current junta.

First, we only have your word that you haven't lost your job.
Secondly, I'm personally tired of your doom and gloom ****. You reap
what you sow and other hackneyed cliches apply.



 
On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 16:08:36 -0700, "Barry White"
<Singingin@theafterlife.com> wrote:

>> >What a crock. And what do you do on the seventh month? Ask your gawd for loaves of
>bread?
>>
>> His method seems to be working better than yours.
>
>You are blowing smoke out your ass. You have no idea about my lifestyle or anyone else who
>posts on Usenet. Be gone, you worthless troll........
>
He posts about his level of contentment. You post about your level of
frustration. Do the math, nipplehead.

 
No fool MOVE! do not bother arguing with this creature guys he is a
socialist which = a thief who uses OTHER PEOPLES GUNS to steal your money
and give it to those he decides deserve it!
"Barry White" <Singingin@theafterlife.com> wrote in message
news:ULDOa.120690$MJ5.77159@fed1read03...
>
> "David L. Moffitt" <moffitcl@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> news:eek:OzOa.3910$yL3.903@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com...
> >
> > "Papa Smurf" <fakeaddress@Iwantnospam.crap> wrote in message
> > news:yJrOa.243$78.26@nwrdny03.gnilink.net...
> > :
> > : "Barry White" <Singingin@theafterlife.com> wrote in message
> > : news:b5rOa.2962$7e.262@fed1read07...
> > : >
> > : > "David L. Moffitt" <moffitcl@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> > : > news:z6qOa.200$cz.133@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...
> > : > >
> > : > > "Barry White" <Singingin@theafterlife.com> wrote in message
> > : > > news:54nOa.2418$7e.1003@fed1read07...
> > : > > :
> > : > > : > : > (BTW we don't have any widget jobs anymore; just Wart Mart
> > : greeters)
> > : > > : > :
> > : > > : > %%%% Is being a degreed professional all that they know or is
it
> > all
> > : > > they
> > : > > : > are willing to do? I've pumped gas at a service station and
> > flipped
> > : > > burgers
> > : > > : > with a degree because the money I was getting was more than I
> > would
> > : > > receive
> > : > > : > sitting on my ass feeling sorry because I didn't have the job
I
> > : wanted.
> > : > > I
> > : > > : > had a family to feed and not the time to sit and whine. I
guess
> > that
> > : is
> > : > > the
> > : > > : > way I was brought up to be self reliant and not depend on
others.
> > : > > :
> > : > > :
> > : > > : Oh I see. Pride has no place in the equation.
> > : > >
> > : > > %%%% You can't eat pride and if your family need to be fed you
need to
> > : > > swollow it and fiind work. The grocery store cannot tell the
> > difference
> > : > > between a dollar made in the stock market from a dollar from
recycling
> > : soda
> > : > > cans. Would you let your family go hungry because you couldn't
find an
> > : > > executive job Barry??
> > : > >
> > : >
> > : >
> > : > No it's what do you do when there are no jobs? Being self reliant
> > doesn't
> > : have a damn
> > : > thing to do with it. There are 1.7 million people out there who
can't
> > find
> > : work. Wart Mart
> > : > isn't going to offer someone with two degrees a job as a greeter.
Even
> > if
> > : they do, try
> > : > supporting a family on $8 an hour (you'll love the medical benefits
> > too).
> > : >
> > : > This country has been pushing towards a service based economy for
over a
> > : decade. Now we're
> > : > stuck with it. A giant third world country....
> > :
> > :
> > : And yet funny, how those with a true work ethic, a sense of
self-reliance,
> > : and self-determinism always seem to make it go right (even if it's by
> > being
> > : the type of person everyone *wants* to help). Funny how none of the
people
> > : that I've ever admired (and that's a fairly good sized group) have
ever
> > been
> > : in that 6.4%. Sure some have been with out jobs for a bit, but they
had
> > : planned ahead to be able to get by, and quickly found or created work
> > : becuase they are people that solve problems themselves.
> >
> > %%%% They have no concept of what being self reliant is. I have 6 months
of
> > food stored and 6 months of money to pay bills set aside for any hard
times
> > of mine or close family members. If it even snows hard and the roads are
> > blocked I don't need to go to the store for anything for a long time.
> >
>
>
> What a crock. And what do you do on the seventh month? Ask your gawd for
loaves of bread?
>
>


 
Singingin@theafterlife.com (Barry White) wrote in
<AcIOa.123439$MJ5.23821@fed1read03>:

>
>"David L. Moffitt" <moffitcl@prodigy.net> wrote in message
>news:nFEOa.458$dP7.206@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com...
>>
>> "Barry White" <Singingin@theafterlife.com> wrote in message
>> news:XKDOa.120682$MJ5.41937@fed1read03...
>> :
>> : "David L. Moffitt" <moffitcl@prodigy.net> wrote in message
>> : news:qKzOa.3909$HC3.3437@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com...
>the blinders.
>>
>> As far as my compassion goes I do extensive community
>> service including being a Boy Scouts advisor and former leader and Red
>> Cross disaster relief worker. Your community service "is"?
>
>Shooting republicans. Care to step into my sights?
>

Typical liberal: Full of hate, and a hypocrite to boot (don't you know that
all good liberals are goose-stepping to the anti-gun fervor now?).

Hey, Barry White -- I just saw on TV that you died. Shouldn't you be
resting in peace now? ;)

 
yawn. heart attack in the making


<brettpowell@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:G_XOa.496$i73.63319082@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
> No fool MOVE! do not bother arguing with this creature guys he is a
> socialist which = a thief who uses OTHER PEOPLES GUNS to steal your money
> and give it to those he decides deserve it!
> "Barry White" <Singingin@theafterlife.com> wrote in message
> news:ULDOa.120690$MJ5.77159@fed1read03...
> >
> > "David L. Moffitt" <moffitcl@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> > news:eek:OzOa.3910$yL3.903@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com...
> > >
> > > "Papa Smurf" <fakeaddress@Iwantnospam.crap> wrote in message
> > > news:yJrOa.243$78.26@nwrdny03.gnilink.net...
> > > :
> > > : "Barry White" <Singingin@theafterlife.com> wrote in message
> > > : news:b5rOa.2962$7e.262@fed1read07...
> > > : >
> > > : > "David L. Moffitt" <moffitcl@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> > > : > news:z6qOa.200$cz.133@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...
> > > : > >
> > > : > > "Barry White" <Singingin@theafterlife.com> wrote in message
> > > : > > news:54nOa.2418$7e.1003@fed1read07...
> > > : > > :


 
brettpowell@sbcglobal.net wrote in
<G_XOa.496$i73.63319082@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>:

>No fool MOVE! do not bother arguing with this creature guys he is a
>socialist which = a thief who uses OTHER PEOPLES GUNS to steal your
>money and give it to those he decides deserve it!

You're absolutely right about that. That's absolutely the best, most
accurate definition of a socialist that I've seen. And like any other
liberal, when confronted with the facts, he resorts to ad hominem remarks,
lacking, as his ideology is, for substantive, reasoned replies.

 

"John Hinckley" <Aiming@atBush.com> wrote in message
news:OOiOa.2352$7e.1996@fed1read07...
:
: "David L. Moffitt" <moffitcl@prodigy.net> wrote in message
: news:qAdOa.345$CV6.170@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com...
: >
: > "John Hinckley" <Aiming@atBush.com> wrote in message
: > news:DU6Oa.2245$7e.2076@fed1read07...
: > :
: > :
: > : you sure are setting your sights high. I think Chimpyboy should be
: > flipping the burgers.
: > : It's closer to his skill level. Of course he'd have to compete with
all
: > those teenagers
: > : looking for work so his chances would not be good. 'Getting an
education"
: > doesn't mean
: > : **** if your company moves to Taiwan.
: >
: > %%%% Yes it does. You need to be able to do more than just glue widgets
: > together or run a column of figures.
: >
:
:
: Oh tell that to the thousands of degreed professionals who are now
jobless. Is absolute
: zero the temperature of your heart?
:
: (BTW we don't have any widget jobs anymore; just Wart Mart greeters)

%%%% A degreed WalMart greeter is bringing in more money to feed his
children than someone sitting on their ass whining and feeling sorry for
theirself! I am a compassionate person but it can be measured at time for
those practicing stupidity and whining.


:
:


 
Papa Smurf wrote:
> "Exit" <exit@nomore.com> wrote in message
> news:J_mOa.77964$%L.9703@news-lhr.blueyonder.co.uk...
>> alvinj@XX.com wrote:
>>>> Liberals over here are happy to be called liberals because it
>>>> means someone who treads a sensible middle line and believes in
>>>> others freedoms and rights.
>>>
>>> That's what it meant here too back around 1900 after the women got
>>> to vote, it changed! :) Then it turned into helping you out whether
>>> you wanted help or not.
>>>
>>>> Well someone has to pay for private healthcare too - you might pay
>>>> your HMO all your life and never get sick. Instead of helping
>>>> someone who is ill, you simply line the shareholders pockets.
>>>> Julian.
>>>
>>> Nope. :/ They go belly up all the time the share holders get
>>> screwed. Too bad tho, since they were the ones that laid their
>>> money on the line. But what I want to hear from you is, just
>>> exactly what is the matter with profit? :/
>>>
>> Absolutely nothing, I rely on it for my income! :)
>>
>>> Did you ever think for a moment that the "profit" comes from careful
>>> management? The profit is nothing more than pocketing what would
>>> otherwise be wasted by the system especially if it were ran by
>>> bureaucrats? Didn't the collapse of the USSR teach you anything?
>>>
>> Yes - I am an entrepreneur by trade, I was merely pointing out that
>> there are circumstances where profit can be better employed than in
>> dividends. The collapse of the USSR taught me that the free market
>> economy that has flourished in the UK for over 3000 years and
>> recently copied by certain North American colonies works splendidly
>> well.
>>
>>> You had me fooled, but not anymore, you are no longer a conservative
>>> in my eyes. :/ But then I shouldn't be surprized, I knew an English
>>> UofA student that claimed to be "liberatarian" that was socialist as
>>> anything. He constantly argued to the contrary too. We were on a
>>> liberatarian-list together and when showing up for meetings would
>>> always start and maintain a fight.
>>>
>> Well what can you expect from a student? I shouldn't think it takes
>> much to fool you, but this time you are fooling yourself.
>>
>>> I think he was really a -libertine- that wanted gov't/tax payers to
>>> provide for him. He was extra good with the english language like
>>> you are, too bad he didn't understand the difference between
>>> libertine and libertarian. :(
>>>
>> I provide employment for others in my business - I have only ever
>> provided for myself. Your blind assumptions weaken your argument,
>> such as it is. And I apologise fur all thar fancy book-lurnin'
>> words. I understand the OED difference between those words, but not
>> your North American political dogma version of them.
>>
>>> Being a libertarian I really like foreiners (fur-ners;) but that
>>> was one, I was glad went back home. :) Furners -usually- show up
>>> here looking for -freedom- and opportunity and that is SO cool! :)
>>>
>>> Alvin in AZ
>>
>> How can I be foreign? You are the colonist speaking someone elses
>> language whilst occupying someone elses land by force. . . . . . .
>> ;-)
>>
>> But seriously - if you want to see queues of tens of thousands of
>> immigrants seeking a better life, just come to Britain - we are
>> over-run with them, no longer from the Empire, but now from eastern
>> europe and the middle east. There are more Iraqis in London than
>> baghdad and one of Saddams sisters lives 10 miles from me. Really!
>> Now thats a free country for you! :)
>>
>
>
> So you are saying it's a lot like Michigan? :) (sorry had to but in.
> Loved your response, and that made me realize another thing I enjoyed
> in our conversation. I didn't feel I had to dumb-down my vocabulary,
> which was a refreshing change from most posts.

There appear to be a lot of people who use English incorrectly and are proud
of the fact - odd!

I speak and write the Queens' English they way I was taught and of course
correct English and correct American English are very similar! :)

--
Julian.
----------
General Melchett from Blackadder describing
his regiments coat of arms:
". . . .two dead Frenchmen atop a pile
of dead Frenchmen. . . . ."


 
Papa Smurf wrote:
> "Exit" <exit@nomore.com> wrote in message
> news:E2nOa.77965$%L.40800@news-lhr.blueyonder.co.uk...
>> Papa Smurf wrote:
>>> "Exit" <exit@nomore.com> wrote in message
>>> news:ePlOa.77856$%L.67446@news-lhr.blueyonder.co.uk...
>>>> Papa Smurf wrote:
>>>>>>>> We both believe similar things then, but my belief in my fellow
>>>>>>>> Englishmen leads me to trust that their self-respect will allow
>>>>>>>> them only to use entitlement as a last resort, whereas you seem
>>>>>>>> to think many Americans will immediately give up trying if they
>>>>>>>> can get the basics for free.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Forty years of experience has shown me that it works that way
>>>>>>> here. The more that is given the more they not only want, but
>>>>>>> they more that they feel they deserve.
>>>>>>> Pick a random person around my parts, and on one hand they are
>>>>>>> proudly milking the system for what it's worth and decrying the
>>>>>>> rich as selfish, greedy and not paying their fair share. It's
>>>>>>> both insane and maddening. Of cpurse it doesn't help that the
>>>>>>> entitlements here are designed to make you more dependant. For
>>>>>>> instance: Unemployment discourages working by making it largely
>>>>>>> an all or nothing deal. You can't work a little and build your
>>>>>>> way up with slowly reduced benefits, because that would lead
>>>>>>> too many people off the roles and not dependant on the
>>>>>>> government. The system wants to be milked.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I certainly wouldn't criticise what is clearly your experience,
>>>>>> perhaps I am too much the optimist.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The unemployed here get what is called 'Job seekers allowance'
>>>>>> which is only paid if you can prove you are actively seeking a
>>>>>> job and not excluding any offers unreasonably. It seems pretty
>>>>>> effective along with our reasonably robust economy keeping
>>>>>> unemployment down to 5%.
>>>>>
>>>>> Oops, hit reply prematurely.
>>>>> Technically they have to looking for work, but the enforcement on
>>>>> this comes and goes depending on who is in power.
>>>>> And they only have to "looking" within their speciality.
>>>>> Our unemployment has reached the 10 year high of 6.4% which has
>>>>> caused almost orgiastic joy amoungst the press and
>>>>> anti-conservatives.
>>>>>
>>>> Bit less fussy here - you get a little time to find your preferred
>>>> line of work, if not it's whatever pays the bills.
>>>>
>>>>> And perhaps your countrymen give you reason to be more optimistic.
>>>>> Ours is ladden with a growing number of social leeches. It should
>>>>> be pointed out (by me) that this country still has a strong
>>>>> backbone of incredible hard-working caring ethiced people as well.
>>>>
>>>> I think the values held by most Britons of a strong work ethic and
>>>> belief in self responsibility are also common in the Americans I
>>>> meet.
>>>>
>>> But then you only meet the ones that have gotten it together enough
>>> to travel, not the group that hangs out behind the 7-11 each night.
>>
>> Very true, but I still hang on to my prejudice that at heart the
>> American majority are worthy people who share most of the aims and
>> beliefs that are prevalent throughout our common history.
>>
>> --
>
>
> I can't disagree with that. America is filled with great people, but
> I am cynical that each generation is less so. My own children were
> partially home schooled, and partially schooled in Canada as their
> mother refused to allow them into the American Public School system
> and made a thorough and incontrivertable case for that opinion.

Personally I think it's the lack of school uniforms in American schools that
causes problems - last thing you want in education is independent
individuals!

--
Julian.
----------
General Melchett from Blackadder describing
his regiments coat of arms:
". . . .two dead Frenchmen atop a pile
of dead Frenchmen. . . . ."


 
Papa Smurf wrote:
> "Exit" <exit@nomore.com> wrote in message
> news:sdnOa.77967$%L.30041@news-lhr.blueyonder.co.uk...
>> Papa Smurf wrote:
>>> "Exit" <exit@nomore.com> wrote in message
>>> news:FUlOa.77857$%L.14724@news-lhr.blueyonder.co.uk...
>>>> Papa Smurf wrote:
>>>>> "Exit" <exit@nomore.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:%piOa.77802$%L.61128@news-lhr.blueyonder.co.uk...
>>>>>> Papa Smurf wrote:
>>>>>>> "Exit" <exit@nomore.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:zXgOa.77790$%L.30607@news-lhr.blueyonder.co.uk...
>>>>>>>> Papa Smurf wrote:
>>>>>>>>> "Exit" <exit@nomore.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:NcaOa.77017$%L.6314@news-lhr.blueyonder.co.uk...
>>>>>>>>>> Papa Smurf wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> "Exit" <exit@nomore.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>> news:%93Oa.76197$%L.68601@news-lhr.blueyonder.co.uk...
>>>>>>>>>>>> scrape at mindspring dot com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 22:23:42 GMT, "Exit" <exit@nomore.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> scrape at mindspring dot com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 20:40:07 GMT, "Exit"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <exit@nomore.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Forgive my lack of knowledge of US political parties
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as I am an Englishman - I take it the democrats are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the very right wing party and the republicans are the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> even more right wing party?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nope. You've got it wrong. The Democrats are the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> socialists and the Republicans are the liberals.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Democrats are socialists?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be a socialist (like Tony Blair or Karl Marx :)) you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need to believe in:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> State ownership of big business.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A command economy.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Redistribution of wealth.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That the struggle between the proletariat and bourgeois
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is a politcal struggle.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> State provision of services.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It still looks to me as though you have two right wing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> parties neither of whom would know socialism if it hit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them in the face! ;-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps you need to look a bit closer. I'm not familiar
>>>>>>>>>>>>> with the phrase "command economy", but everything else you
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mentioned is dead on what the Democrats want.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Really? Which industries have the democrats nationalised
>>>>>>>>>>>> recently?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If they were socialists a national health service would be
>>>>>>>>>>>> top of their list, but they don't ssem to have provided one
>>>>>>>>>>>> yet.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> We run into a little trouble with that one. Since largely it
>>>>>>>>>>> is US companies fronting the bill for the R&D that provides
>>>>>>>>>>> cheapers better drugs and procedures for the rest of the
>>>>>>>>>>> world it becomes difficult for US to achieve a leechbased
>>>>>>>>>>> healthcare system without putting at least some of the cost
>>>>>>>>>>> on the non-producers.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm afraid thats not true. Global Trade Information Services
>>>>>>>>>> show that the US exported 8695 and imported 14309 GBP
>>>>>>>>>> Millions pharamceuticals in 2002. The UK by comparison
>>>>>>>>>> exported 10031 and imported 7446. We don't put the costs on
>>>>>>>>>> the non-producers, so why would you need to?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'd be very curious to see how pharameceuticals is defined to
>>>>>>>>> make that statistic true.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Same way the US Govt defines it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'd also be curious to know how many of said drugs are we
>>>>>>>>> originally developed or knockoffs thereof.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> None are knockoffs, the UK is one of the worlds leading
>>>>>>>> pharmaceutical developers, not some 3rd world sweat shop
>>>>>>>> copying US drugs. US Giant Pfizer is the worlds biggest
>>>>>>>> pharmaceutical co. with
>>>>>>>> 7.5% of the world market share. GlaxoSmithKline in the UK have
>>>>>>>> 7.0% of the world market and none of the other US companies
>>>>>>>> comes close. Bear in mind that 53% of the worlds patents are
>>>>>>>> registered to UK individuals or companies and a significant
>>>>>>>> part of that is pharmaceutical.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was completely unaware of this. BTW: I am very much enjoying
>>>>>>> our conversation.
>>>>>>> Do you have any links that I could look into this with? Always
>>>>>>> like to upgrade the worldview where it is flawed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is rather enlightening isn't it?
>>>>>
>>>>> Always. It is nearly impossible to have a nice reasoned political
>>>>> arguement any more. Both sides are so charged, so ****ed, so wary
>>>>> of being lead it a trap, and neither side really listening, that
>>>>> mostly it rapidly breakdowns into ridiculous statements and
>>>>> personal attacks. And I'm just as guilty as this, coming in with
>>>>> as much baggage as I have. It's been very pleasent to have a
>>>>> discussion that hasn't hasn't imediately been reduced to the:
>>>>> "I'm a dickhead? No, you're a dickhead." level.
>>>>>
>>>> Agreed - I think party politics is treated a little less seriously
>>>> here and is all the better for it,
>>>
>>> Part of why it is taken seriously, here is that it is serious. The
>>> differences argued might seem little from your vantage point but for
>>> me it means how deeply others are allowed to rip into my pocket, and
>>> for others it's how deeply into the trouth they can dig. Since I
>>> dislike being robbed, it upsets me. Since others have been taught
>>> not to handle things themselves they live in fear of this support
>>> being taken away, and are angry at the reality of the situation. So
>>> angers and fears run high and cloud judegments on all sides. And
>>> then the politicians stir up and exaggerate those fears to get
>>> votes....
>>>
>> You should remember it's only money - nothing worth getting stressed
>> over. There are more important things in life. I personally put a
>> lot of this stress down to inadequate holidays/vacations in the US -
>> you chaps work hard and take no time off to appreciate the finer
>> things in life. Most people get around 25 days holiday per year here
>> which is very civilised.
>
> Before my wife, I had a girlfriend from Ireland. I always envied the
> Holiday system over there.
> However, while I do work hard, I work for myself, and I tend to hire
> competant (self reliant) people, so I delegate a lot. While I tend to
> not take off too much time in a block of days, I don't work all that
> hard. Money for monies sake has never been a goal of mine. Smelling
> the roses is very important (especially as I get older). I could have
> been much richer than I am, but the sacrifices would have been to
> great. My children are safe and provided for (but fully expect to
> build empires on their own), my wife is happy. It is enough.
>
> The rest is about Principals, and that's were I get worked up.
>
>>>> but if you've ever watched the British parliament
>>>> live, it's hard to take them seriously. On the whole however most
>>>> MP's do a good job of representing their constituencies and have to
>>>> run an open 'surgery' every week where their electorate have
>>>> unfettered free access to them to complain about the bins not being
>>>> emptied or whatever - it's great leveller and brings them down to
>>>> earth! :)
>>>
>>> I like that, sounds like a great humbler, and keeps them more in
>>> touch with the people.
>>> Tough to implement that with such a large population I would think
>>> though..
>>>>
>> It works out to about 92,000 people per MP - how many
>> senators/congressmen are there versus the population over there?
>
> Population is what, must be about 275,000,000 by now and 50 senators
> and 466 congressmen. So that's 5.5 million per Senator or about
> 600,000 per Congressman (sorry no calculator around)
> (Just did a search, the population is slightly over 290 million.)
>>
Ahh - you obviously need more politicians! ;-)

>>>>>> ISTR getting the world market share figures for Pfizer and GSK
>>>>>> from their respective websites and the reference to 53% of the
>>>>>> worlds patents being British was actually calculated by the
>>>>>> Japanese Ministry Industry in 1996, though I can't find the link
>>>>>> currently. Shame we are not as good at selling them as we are at
>>>>>> inventing them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Since this is totally
>>>>>>>>>>> unacceptable to leechvoters and hugely unpopular with those
>>>>>>>>>>> that would end up footing the rest of the bill, it has
>>>>>>>>>>> trouble even being formed to come for a vote. Take recent
>>>>>>>>>>> events where Bush has said "Get me a healthcare bill, I'll
>>>>>>>>>>> sign it" and then the press starts giving out the details
>>>>>>>>>>> that it will (gasp) cost some more than they are getting
>>>>>>>>>>> back (they wanted the magical cow to pay for it all),
>>>>>>>>>>> suddenly they are all up in arms and it probably won't get
>>>>>>>>>>> passed.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm not saying you should have a national health service,
>>>>>>>>>> thats a choice for your electorate, but I do suspect the
>>>>>>>>>> arguments are not being fairly assessed.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I call them like I see them.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Of course you do, but I suspect political dogma gets in the way
>>>>>>>> of a fair assessment of whether a NHS would help or hinder your
>>>>>>>> country.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've posted my reasons in the other half of this thread. I can
>>>>>>> only go on, what my experience shows me, and what observe about
>>>>>>> similar matters. If it is shoved down our throats, and it works,
>>>>>>> I'll be first in line changing my tune. If, as I suspect, that I
>>>>>>> end paying not only for my own medical expressives, but those of
>>>>>>> several hundred others, maybe it will finally be time to admit
>>>>>>> defeat, and look for a freer country.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On the other hand, you might get really ill and have several
>>>>>> hundred others paying for your medical bills! :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Unlikely to happen here. Since the government doesn't view me as
>>>>> poor, should I spend all my money I will still be kicked out on my
>>>>> ass rather than helped.
>>>>> Even so, most HMO and insurance policies have caps lower than my
>>>>> bond. And it serves me right if I haven't planned properly. :)
>>>>
>>>> Never mind - if you feel ill, nip on a plane and book yoursellf in
>>>> here for a free service!
>>>
>>> Not really my style (self-reliance and all), it would feel wrong to
>>> use a system I pay nothing into.
>>
>> I doubt you'd care if you were ill but I respect your ethics.
>
> It's moments like that when a persons values are really tested.
> Wouldn't fly there, but if I was there and they wouldn't let me
> pay.....

They've no way of accepting payment, but you could always donate something
to a medical charity if it made you feel better.

--
Julian.
----------
General Melchett from Blackadder describing
his regiments coat of arms:
". . . .two dead Frenchmen atop a pile
of dead Frenchmen. . . . ."


 
Papa Smurf wrote:
> Julian,
>
> I just wanted to say again what a pleasure it has been conversing
> with you these last couple of days.
> Now though it is time buckle down once again and refocus my energies
> on the companies, but hopefully I will have time to pick your brain
> again one day soon.
> It has been a very nice diversion.
>
> Garth

Absolutely!

Been down in sunny Cornwall for a few days on business so haven't replied,
but I can usually be found hanging out in alt.fan.landrover.

Cheers!

--
Julian.
----------
General Melchett from Blackadder describing
his regiments coat of arms:
". . . .two dead Frenchmen atop a pile
of dead Frenchmen. . . . ."


 
I have been reading this string for the last couple of days and have
found the conversations both interesting and knowledgeable although I must
take exception with this statement.


> Personally I think it's the lack of school uniforms in American schools
that
> causes problems - last thing you want in education is independent
> individuals!

Independent thought is what leads to creativity. The last thing that I
would want for a gifted child is to put him/her into a situation where they
were expected to follow the flock and stay at the same level as those around
them. I know uniformity takes away individuality, but isn't it individuals
with independent thought that create and discover?

The Soviet Union and other Communist States tried the mass mentality
idea and look what it got them.

Please do not send Spam


 


"John Hinckley" <Aiming@atBush.com> wrote in message
news:MalOa.2384$7e.1636@fed1read07...
> of course they do; they all live in China. I love those cheep cheesy
Chinese made amerikan
> flags....
>
>
John,
Lasy year my son made it to a state championship wrestling competition here
in Pa. It was held in the Johnstown War Memorial. The War Memorial Stadium
was built as a shrine to honor those veterans that served in WWII and Korea,
and old war posters, photos, and banners abound in the place.
As we were going to our seats, a stadium employee was handing out little
plastic American flags so that everyone could wave them during the National
Anthem. As I was sitting there I was examining the flag, and sure enough, it
said "Made in China" right on the border!
Considering where we were, and why the grand old place was built, I just
couldn't believe they would hand out "Chinese" flags. I threw mine in the
trash on the way out.
Randy


 

"350_C" <me@i_hate_spam.com> wrote in message
news:WFoPa.6506$o86.488@news1.central.cox.net...
: I have been reading this string for the last couple of days and have
: found the conversations both interesting and knowledgeable although I must
: take exception with this statement.
:
:
: > Personally I think it's the lack of school uniforms in American schools
: that
: > causes problems - last thing you want in education is independent
: > individuals!
:
: Independent thought is what leads to creativity. The last thing that I
: would want for a gifted child is to put him/her into a situation where
they
: were expected to follow the flock and stay at the same level as those
around
: them. I know uniformity takes away individuality, but isn't it individuals
: with independent thought that create and discover?
:
: The Soviet Union and other Communist States tried the mass mentality
: idea and look what it got them.

%%%% That opinion was posted by a well known lib/dem and as we all know they
want socialism to control our lives and country.


:
: Please do not send Spam
:
:


 
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