I am in the process of refitting the head after replacing the head gasket. The head is back on, the cylinder head bolts in and tightened correctly at all 5 stages, timing chain tensioner and sealing washer tightened and so is the allen screw securing the top of the timing chain fixed guide. I have removed the crankshaft locking tool but can not get the camshaft locking tool out, I have tried to move the crank shaft abit to loose it but this time the crank shaft seems solid... what am I doing/have done wrong?
Shifty1962
Well-Known Member
The camshaft locking pin will stop any movement of the crankshaft as its directly connected via the timing chain. Have you got the injector rockers backed all the way off? It may be an injector bottoming out and pinching the camshaft locking pin.
Other than that its hard to imagine what else could be causing the problem unless you had to hammer the locking pin in to place
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Other than that its hard to imagine what else could be causing the problem unless you had to hammer the locking pin in to place
.sorry Shifty I'm a Haynes mechanic and the book hasn't said anything about backing of injector rockers, certainly no mention in the "the cylinder head-removal, inspection and refitting" section, I'll go and see what it says regards these.
I didn't have to hammer it into place but when it was in place I had to giggle the fly wheel a tiny bit to get that locking pin in, maybe that tightened things a bit?
Anyway cheers for that, just needed to know I haven't completely buggered it.
I didn't have to hammer it into place but when it was in place I had to giggle the fly wheel a tiny bit to get that locking pin in, maybe that tightened things a bit?
Anyway cheers for that, just needed to know I haven't completely buggered it.
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OK with a it more jiggling on the crank I managed to remove the cam locking pin, have put everything back in order, refilled coolant checked oil, turned ignition to II waited for the fuel pump to sort itself out, turn the key and just got clunk! didn't sound like an expensive clunk but just clunk, as if the locking pins were still (no they are not) turn key clunk ..nothing. Shifty... anyone.... help.(Please)
Shifty1962
Well-Known Member
Check your main earth cable and the feed to the starter. Are you sure the starter is getting full current?
Can you turn the engine over by hand using a socket and bar on the crank pulley? If not them you have a mechanical problem stopping the engine turning over.
I'm assuming that you fitted the correct head gasket. If so then the timing could be out letting a valve contact a piston but if you used timing pins I cant see how this could be. I suppose it could still be an injector bottoming out if you did not adjust the injector rockers.
Can you turn the engine over by hand using a socket and bar on the crank pulley? If not them you have a mechanical problem stopping the engine turning over.
I'm assuming that you fitted the correct head gasket. If so then the timing could be out letting a valve contact a piston but if you used timing pins I cant see how this could be. I suppose it could still be an injector bottoming out if you did not adjust the injector rockers.
Thank you Dippypud & Shifty for your input, you have no idea how helpful you are being as this is currently my only source of info out here.
Back out to her this morning removed fan and rocker cover so I could watch the movement and I can turn the engine over manually, there are no sounds or evidence that the pistons are touching the valves etc, no clunck or knocking noises and no sudden resistance other than expected compression, it just turns as it did when I set up TDC originally.
Gasket was the same '1 hole' from Turners. (Frida, great and knowledgable lady to deal with).
I have gone back over the refit to check I haven't missed anything but nothing is standing out. I will check the earth strap, anything else I could look out for?
Thanks again for your assistance.
Back out to her this morning removed fan and rocker cover so I could watch the movement and I can turn the engine over manually, there are no sounds or evidence that the pistons are touching the valves etc, no clunck or knocking noises and no sudden resistance other than expected compression, it just turns as it did when I set up TDC originally.
Gasket was the same '1 hole' from Turners. (Frida, great and knowledgable lady to deal with).
I have gone back over the refit to check I haven't missed anything but nothing is standing out. I will check the earth strap, anything else I could look out for?
Thanks again for your assistance.
Shifty1962
Well-Known Member
If the engine turns over by hand then its not mechanical with anything you've already done.
I'd make sure the battery is well charged or use some boost cables. You can also use a boost cable from the battery -ve to the engine block as a temporary earth cable to help diagnose the problem. Dont get this wrong or things will get a tad hot.
You may have the common problem with the TD5 starter solenoid contacts which are about £10 on eBay to replace. Symptoms are a clunk as you describe but the starter does not try to turn over. To check put your headlights on then try to start the ignition. Do the lights go dim? If not then the starter is not drawing any current.
I'd make sure the battery is well charged or use some boost cables. You can also use a boost cable from the battery -ve to the engine block as a temporary earth cable to help diagnose the problem. Dont get this wrong or things will get a tad hot.
You may have the common problem with the TD5 starter solenoid contacts which are about £10 on eBay to replace. Symptoms are a clunk as you describe but the starter does not try to turn over. To check put your headlights on then try to start the ignition. Do the lights go dim? If not then the starter is not drawing any current.
Feeling a bit stupid, t'was the battery, jumped it and she started, sounded nice and sweet although the throttle didn't seem to be quite as responsive, took up the road probably no more than 1/2 mile, there is a bit of a bank, as I neared the top she started to sound more rattley, like an old diesel, so into neutral and as I pulled up there was one clank and everything stopped.
Have now towed her back removed the rocker cover and the cam chain/shaft sprocket has broken off its 3 bolts!!!!
So with a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach I presume that it is head off again to see what damage lies beneath.
B*&&%$Ks I could do with this like a hole in the friggin head!
Have now towed her back removed the rocker cover and the cam chain/shaft sprocket has broken off its 3 bolts!!!!
So with a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach I presume that it is head off again to see what damage lies beneath.
B*&&%$Ks I could do with this like a hole in the friggin head!
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Shifty1962
Well-Known Member
Thats not good mate. The only way to tell what damage has been done is to tear it all apart again. I still have no idea as to what you could have done wrong especially as it ran sweet for a while. Did you remember to tighten the three little buggers up?
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Ow do Shifty, yep, I did the three bolts up to the correct torque, but they were the one that I took out originally as I didn't have any to replace them with and the Haynes does say to replace so my F@*& up!
Anyway somewhere in the bottom is one of the bolts, I have recovered the other 2, they have damaged the cam chain tensioners, so far the only other dmamge I can see is a light foot print in the carbon on top of each piston, only had a quick look at the underside of the head not sure yet whether any of the valves are bent or just in their correct positions.
Hey ho sh!t seems to happen... and happen. I'm going to try and find someone locally who could take a look to say just how good or bad it really is.
Anyway somewhere in the bottom is one of the bolts, I have recovered the other 2, they have damaged the cam chain tensioners, so far the only other dmamge I can see is a light foot print in the carbon on top of each piston, only had a quick look at the underside of the head not sure yet whether any of the valves are bent or just in their correct positions.
Hey ho sh!t seems to happen... and happen. I'm going to try and find someone locally who could take a look to say just how good or bad it really is.
Shifty1962
Well-Known Member
I've reused head and carrier bolts as well as the sprocket bolts several times with no problems. Something must have made the camshaft jam and the sprocket bolts were the weakest link. If the valves have just kissed the top of the pistons then chances are they wont be bent. Normally you would have quite large dents in the pistons and/or a visibly bent valve face not seating correctly. You will need to check the head has not cracked around any of the valve guides.
I think I have managed to attach some pics, thought you might like to see what I've done : eek:
211rob, I'm just at the very top of Dept 53 about 12 miles South from St Hilaire du Harcouet (Dept50 Manche) which is again south of Calvados and any help, advice would be gratefully received.
: eek:211rob, I'm just at the very top of Dept 53 about 12 miles South from St Hilaire du Harcouet (Dept50 Manche) which is again south of Calvados and any help, advice would be gratefully received.
Attachments
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Shifty1962
Well-Known Member
By the way that injector rocker is broken I'd guess you had an injector bottom out which broke the rocker and the the bits jammed the camshaft breaking the sprocket off. Its hard to tell but the tops of the pistons dont look too bad. How deep are the valve imprints especially on the front piston?
Thanks Rob, Dave apparently moved 4 years ago.
Shifty the imprints on top of the pistons are minimal, your finger nail can't catch them so I think that is promising, my problem now is deciding what to do next for the best as trying to rebuild the head may be stretching my mechanical capabilities (especially with the current outcome of my previous attempts).
Just a quickie, the small pins in the pic with the pliers, look like rollers from a tapered baring and if they have spread themselves all around the interior surely it really will have to be a complete and utter strip down?
Shifty the imprints on top of the pistons are minimal, your finger nail can't catch them so I think that is promising, my problem now is deciding what to do next for the best as trying to rebuild the head may be stretching my mechanical capabilities (especially with the current outcome of my previous attempts).
Just a quickie, the small pins in the pic with the pliers, look like rollers from a tapered baring and if they have spread themselves all around the interior surely it really will have to be a complete and utter strip down?
