Saint.V8 said:

Just been re-reading the Ignition Coils in RAVE....coil failure won't cause MIL light - but a misfire caused by coil failure will......substituting with known good coild would be a good test...

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I did say this last night sorry I think your reading it wrong coil Failure will lead to ignition Failure!!! That will turn the mil light on that leads to a no spark its just the way they have written it its not the misfire it the coil that causes the misfire

neo2 said:

Hey guys I'm blown on this now but I've found something else I've gone back to basics and checked all the fuses and on the Ebcm fuse 11 was missing on rave its said 30a fuse not sure if its all models but it has metal contacts in the female side fitted a fuse still nowt.... So tested all the fuses still ok all of them so I thought ok check for fuel pressure,,,

I've found they do have a schraider valve on the left rail or right rail viewed from the front it's tight to get on but I've unscrewed the cap pushed valve in got a tiny spirt of fuel with someone operating the key and the schraider valve pressed in no fuel not even with ignition lights on nothing ?

So I got the wife to crank engine while I held the valve depressed on fuel rail still no fuel when cranking ??

But I've still no spark ether xxx

I'm loosing the will to live now to be fair...

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Fuse 11 selects transfer box neutral for towing the beast, it should not be fitted.
No fuel pressure is not good, could that stop it sparking?

defender300td1 said:

I did say this last night sorry I think your reading it wrong coil Failure will lead to ignition Failure!!! That will turn the mil light on that leads to a no spark its just the way they have written it its not the misfire it the coil that causes the misfire

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Coil failure directly won't cause MIL - Misfire caused by Coil failure will cause MIL....

The Engine needs to be firing first for the MIL to be lit - there is no feedback circuit to monitor coils - only a misfire detected by the knock sensor will identify the coil not firing...

Datatek said:

Fuse 11 selects transfer box neutral for towing the beast, it should not be fitted.
No fuel pressure is not good, could that stop it sparking?

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Possible - on the L322, when my fuel pump failed causing no fuel pressure - it wouldn't even cough or do anything on Easy Start - and the RAC man did this 3-4 times with me cranking and him squirting!!

Not a murmour....

As soon as I replaced the fuel pump she burst into life....

Not sure it it would be the same on the P38....

Does the P38 Fuel pump run from ignition on , or only while cranking??? Reason I ask is if the ECU doesn't know the engine is turning over - it won't fire the coils or enagage the fuel pump....

Hi guys a bit of an update tonight ...

Ok I went and tested all the fuses and had a good butchers about can't see nowt untoward but did some tests my mate popped up who helped and when I switch the ignition on I get no fuel pump prime or pump whilst cranking the relay is fine it's been tried in another location also the fuse box has been tried for another one complete with relays so its not that ether but if I bridge the fuel pump relay RL12 at terminal 30 to 87 I get the fuel pump running constant and if I go to start it then it still won't fire but I've got fuel while its bridged but take away the bridge wire which is fused and refit relay no fuel again,the relay ain't kicking in of its own accord so it must not be getting its signal to do so now if the ignition relay is fed from the same place that might be why I've no spark but I don't know how to take it from here ?? Any ideas chaps

*
image of schraider valve on right fuel rail
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p.s your looking in a mirror in the picture

Saint im convinced that it has a fault thats effecting both curcuits ie a in line fuse or a fusable link of something similar etc...
*
*
*As it stands with the fuel pump relay in it wont pump fuel but bridged it will but ethier way it still wont fire up im thinking some thing that feeds them both has blown or something like that even the imobaliser etc...

OK.

Marcinbrighton, your park figures show:

gearbox overheat, gearbox mes1, gearbox mes2
ground, ground, ground.

Rob's shows:

gearbox overheat, gearbox mes1, gearbox mes2
ground, +12V, +12V

I have no idea what the significance of this is but surely they should be the same?

Doug, I think you just posted drive, neutral and reverse but wouldn't we want it to think it is in park to start? Or maybe neutral?

For neutral:

marc = ground, ground, ground
doug = ground, ground, ground
rob = ground, 12V, 12V

To me that doesn't stack up. Of course, it might be something before the gearbox causing strange messages from the gearbox?

Then there's that weird temperature reading. Where would the 2 link? Or is that just coincidence?

J

marcinbrighton said:

Hi All,

Here you go, my screen shots attached. I was trying earlier to embed in the post to save anyone time, but couldn't do it!!

Saved as attachments now

Cheers
Marc

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If the gearbox is in anything other than n or p the engine wouldn't turn over at all.

Rob: will check the RAVE circuits in the morning and see what is common to both the coils and the pump.....usually if the fuel pump ain't running that could be sync (which has been checked), inertia switch, or relay failure....but will check the schematics.

Thanks saint sorry to be a pain its just electrics aint my bag at all....

neo2 said:

Thanks saint sorry to be a pain its just electrics aint my bag at all....

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No apology needed, you ain't being a pain at all.....it is just a pity your so far away!! I'd imagine if we all lived within 100 miles of you, we'd all be round your place every night, drinking tea, eating biscuits, pointing to things and nodding, pulling things out, taking bits off our own cars to try on yours, then scratching heads, eating more biscuits until we got the thing started.....

You wouldn't just be pleased it started, you'd also be please to get rid of us all again.....!!!

Saint.V8 said:

No apology needed, you ain't being a pain at all.....it is just a pity your so far away!! I'd imagine if we all lived within 100 miles of you, we'd all be round your place every night, drinking tea, eating biscuits, pointing to things and nodding, pulling things out, taking bits off our own cars to try on yours, then scratching heads, eating more biscuits until we got the thing started.....

You wouldn't just be pleased it started, you'd also be please to get rid of us all again.....!!!

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+1 on that - I've been trying to work out how we can all do it - happy for mine to be the donor!!!!

I know SFA about P38's but the description of the "no fuel pump" made me wonder if there is an inertia switch or similar (like on a Classic).

Dunno if that gives anybody any ideas but hey ho - keep at it and good luck.

classic kev said:

I know SFA about P38's but the description of the "no fuel pump" made me wonder if there is an inertia switch or similar (like on a Classic).

Dunno if that gives anybody any ideas but hey ho - keep at it and good luck.

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Yep, there is an inertia switch,think it has been checked.

neo2 said:

......its just electrics aint my bag at all....

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I have to say, you're making a pretty damn good effort at it!!

Pete

Neo, if you give up now I think a little bit of all of us will die

OK - re-reading RAVE.....

The Fuel Pump relay is activated by the Engine ECU, ONLY when the ECU senses the Ignition Coil Relay is energised....

The Ignition Coil relay is controlled by the BeCM.....

The BeCM will only pull in the Ignition Coil Relay when it knows it has the correct coded key inserted and gets the OK from the Anti-theft immobiliser.....

A couple of things to check:

(1)With an assistant in the car - open the bonnet and fuse box and find the Ignition Coil Relay......put a long screwdriver on top of it, and place your ear to the screwdriver handle - get the assistant to turn the igntion to position 2 and listen to hear if you can hear the Ignition Coil Relay clicking over....if you can do check 2, if not do check 3:

(2)Remove Coil Multiplug - using a multimeter set to 20VDC place Red Probe into the WHITE Wire pin and Black lead to a good earth point - get assistant to turn ingnition to position 2 - you should read battery voltage at that point if you don't get battery voltage this would indicate a break in the wire from the Ignition Coil Relay to the Coils, next identify Pin 30 on the Ignition relay and place Red lead in the Pin 30 hole and to a good Earth - should read battery volts - if not this indicates the power feed from Fuse 28 (30A) is duff - check fuse or wiring.

(3) I NEED OTHERS OPINION ON THIS ONE - but if the relay isn't clicking over, this is either because the relay is duff or the BeCM isn't telling it to switch due to either a wiring fault or immobilser issue.....THIS IS THE PART I AM NOT SURE ON - if we bridge contacts 30 and 87, effectively pretending the relay has switched over this should provide power to the coils - the ECU will sense this and pull in the Fuel Pump relay and with fingers crossed something may happen.....what say the populous??

(4) If bridging the ignition relay works - we need to figure out why the BeCM isn't pulling in the Ignition Relay - be it an immobilser fault or a wiring fault....we could then chase the wiring from the BeCM to the relay coil to ensure continuity - there are 2 shorting links in the 2000my, one between the ignition relay and the BeCM and one after the Fuse before the relay...if one of these shorting links has blown, the Igntion relay won't pull in.

I can't believe this car still hasn't started.

Get the car to me, I'll have it running in 20 mins like i do every other range rover that no one else can do.

PM me the history of what's been done & i'll go through it later & hopefully pin point the problem.

Rick-the-Pick said:

I can't believe this car still hasn't started.

Get the car to me, I'll have it running in 20 mins like i do every other range rover that no one else can do.

PM me the history of what's been done & i'll go through it later & hopefully pin point the problem.

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So where were you 337 posts ago?

Saint.V8 said:

OK - re-reading RAVE.....

The Fuel Pump relay is activated by the Engine ECU, ONLY when the ECU senses the Ignition Coil Relay is energised....

The Ignition Coil relay is controlled by the BeCM.....

The BeCM will only pull in the Ignition Coil Relay when it knows it has the correct coded key inserted and gets the OK from the Anti-theft immobiliser.....

A couple of things to check:

(1)With an assistant in the car - open the bonnet and fuse box and find the Ignition Coil Relay......put a long screwdriver on top of it, and place your ear to the screwdriver handle - get the assistant to turn the igntion to position 2 and listen to hear if you can hear the Ignition Coil Relay clicking over....if you can do check 2, if not do check 3:

(2)Remove Coil Multiplug - using a multimeter set to 20VDC place Red Probe into the WHITE Wire pin and Black lead to a good earth point - get assistant to turn ingnition to position 2 - you should read battery voltage at that point if you don't get battery voltage this would indicate a break in the wire from the Ignition Coil Relay to the Coils.

(3) I NEED OTHERS OPINION ON THIS ONE - but if the relay isn't clicking over, this is either because the relay is duff or the BeCM isn't telling it to switch due to either a wiring fault or immobilser issue.....THIS IS THE PART I AM NOT SURE ON - if we bridge contacts 30 and 87, effectively pretending the relay has switched over this should provide power to the coils - the ECU will sense this and pull in the Fuel Pump relay and with fingers crossed something may happen.....what say the populous??

(4) If bridging the ignition relay works - we need to figure out why the BeCM isn't pulling in the Ignition Relay - be it an immobilser fault or a wiring fault....we could then chase the wiring from the BeCM to the relay coil to ensure continuity - there are 2 shorting links in the 2000my, one between the ignition relay and the BeCM and one after the Fuse before the relay...if one of these shorting links has blown, the Igntion relay won't pull in.

Click to expand...

Saint what is the part about power down routine , that records the temp,Failure
Of this relay will mean ecu will not power up there for car will not start ??